7D have 24p but why not 5DM2

Chris Hurd · September 1st, 2009, 10:13 AM

Easy does it, folks. Thanks in advance,

Chris Barcellos · September 1st, 2009, 10:16 AM

The component approach Canon is taking is good. A lot of people here seem to be missing that point. This is a camera body to attach your great glass to. The 5D is the same. This is actually exactly what we want to see in the video world. Canon is grudgingly recognizing RED's idea of having multiple capability bodies for video and still. And with RED, the lowest level Scarlets won't do what the 35mm sensor version will do.

In the 7D case, we get added features such as 60p and 24 and 25p. We have a lower cost. These features come at a cost. We lose full frame sensor.

I suspect next step is the 9D with same features in a full sensor camera-- and perhaps with some of the other features we are looking for.. or maybe even a more traditionally designed video camera, alll at a higher price...

Bunseng Chuor · September 1st, 2009, 10:24 AM

i love my 5D, and i don't want to loss the full frame, and my FF glasses.
i been have many great work with it. i know i can get 7D and the cost is affordable. but loss full frame? and a extra camera? is a no.
that why i still want to have 24-60fps. it just a hope.

Francis Rene · September 1st, 2009, 11:09 AM

"These features come at a cost. We lose full frame sensor."

This might sound like a dumb question but what is the benefit of a full size sensor over a smaller one for shooting video considering that it only use part of the sensor anyway?

Evan Donn · September 1st, 2009, 11:15 AM

To my mind the existence of the 7D with it's various frame rates basically puts to rest the argument that they kept the 5D at 30fps as a way to protect their video segment. That leaves me with the feeling that it is in fact a hardware limitation of some sort - maybe it's a clock timing issue, maybe the jello is too bad at lower frame rates on the big sensor, whatever. So I'm actually less inclined to believe we'll see a firmware update with new frame rates for the 5D at all.

James Miller · September 1st, 2009, 11:20 AM

Would make a nice second camera with it's x1.6 a fast 2.8 /200mm Zoom and a x2 II Extender.
640mm. A nice benefit with the smaller sensor.

Chris Barcellos · September 1st, 2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis Rene

"These features come at a cost. We lose full frame sensor."

This might sound like a dumb question but what is the benefit of a full size sensor over a smaller one for shooting video considering that it only use part of the sensor anyway?

It uses the full frame in the sense that the entire width of the imager is used to generate the image for the still video application. In the case of the the video, not all lines of the image are used, and of course there is cropping to fit 16:9 frame size.

The larger the imager, of coures, the shallower depth of field will be, and that is why we have been desirous of full frame chips.

Tommi Hares · September 1st, 2009, 12:08 PM

The problem I'm having with Canon is that they are giving away a supreme set of software settings for the 7D, but the hardware of the 7D is not in par with the 5D Mark II hardware (5D2 hardware is MUCH better). Just because the 7D system is "newer", does not mean the 5DmkII customers should suffer for it!

I mean the 5D2 - in all areas - out performs the 7D. The ONLY thing the 7D has, is MORE SOFTWARE SETTINGS. To be honest, I don't care about the 720p/50/60 modes, I care about the 24/25 mode. And if that's not coming to their top-of-the-line models, who in their right mind would ever purchase the next "5D2" or "1D" if the next "7D" is going to have all that, plus some...

I just know we're getting the 24/25p. That is just good customer support - and what they call in the business "after marketing". We're getting 24/25p. Just wait for it.

If not? FU Canon! My next spare 3600€ wont be yours!

Bunseng Chuor · September 1st, 2009, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommi Hares

If not? FU Canon! My next spare 3600€ wont be yours!

lolz .. good one!!

Evan Donn · September 1st, 2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tommi Hares

I just know we're getting the 24/25p. That is just good customer support - and what they call in the business "after marketing". We're getting 24/25p. Just wait for it.

I seriously doubt it's just a software question. The fact that the 7D has all the frame rates it does indicates they aren't worried about protecting their video division from cannibalization by still cameras - so what other reason would they have for not enabling these frame rates in the first place if it was possible?

Jay Houser · September 1st, 2009, 12:49 PM

My opinions may be biased since I never bought a digital camera until the original 5D came out. As a former Hasselblad user and Canon film user, I did not want to deal with a crop sensor.

As a 5D mk II owner, I will buy a 7D just for the extra reach. Since the 5D uses only every 3rd line for video and dumps the rest, I would expect the 7D video to acceptable.

The second processor, extra FPS, improved focusing and affordability make this purchase a nobrainer. With these two cameras and a XH-A1, I should have all the bases covered.

I could part with my original 5D tho, I quess!

Tommi Hares · September 1st, 2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Donn

what other reason would they have for not enabling these frame rates in the first place if it was possible?

You should think this question from a "new customer" perspective. What incitement does the new customer have to buy the 5DmkII, if the 7D (on paper) out performs it? The dual DIGIC4? I'm calling BS on that one. "Location,location,location?" NO! "Firmware,firmware,firmware!" We are used to updates. We expect them, we rely on them.

I mean, this does not make any sense. More options for less, while on the same time your selling less options for more?! --WTF!--

Jay Houser · September 1st, 2009, 01:12 PM

My opinions may be biased since I never bought a digital camera until the original 5D came out. As a former Hasselblad user and Canon film user, I did not want to deal with a crop sensor.

As a 5D mk II owner, I will buy a 7D just for the extra reach. Since the 5D uses only every 3rd line for video and dumps the rest, I would expect the 7D video to acceptable.

The second processor, extra FPS, improved focusing and affordability make this purchase a nobrainer. With these two cameras and a XH-A1, I should have all the bases covered.

I could part with my original 5D tho, I quess!

Chris Hurd · September 1st, 2009, 01:41 PM

Hi Jay, selling your original 5D should go a long way toward paying for a 7D.

Nick Csakany · September 1st, 2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Donn

I seriously doubt it's just a software question. The fact that the 7D has all the frame rates it does indicates they aren't worried about protecting their video division from cannibalization by still cameras - so what other reason would they have for not enabling these frame rates in the first place if it was possible?

The same could be asked why didn't they enable full manual settings in video mode right off the bat on the 5D2, and had to release a firmware update to address this isssue?

I suspect Canon may have underestimated the interest in the video capabilities of the camera in the beginning.

One reason I've seen given is that Digic 4 may not support the frame rate; however, the 7D has the same processor (albeit 2 of them) and I don't see why a firmware couldn't implement these other modes. Besides, wouldn't 30p require more processing than 24p? After all, 24 fps represent a full 20% reduction in the number of frames to be captured and processed compared to 30.

Nick

September 1st, 2009, 10:13 AM	#31
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Easy does it, folks. Thanks in advance, __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

September 1st, 2009, 10:16 AM	#32
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Component Approach is Good ! The component approach Canon is taking is good. A lot of people here seem to be missing that point. This is a camera body to attach your great glass to. The 5D is the same. This is actually exactly what we want to see in the video world. Canon is grudgingly recognizing RED's idea of having multiple capability bodies for video and still. And with RED, the lowest level Scarlets won't do what the 35mm sensor version will do. In the 7D case, we get added features such as 60p and 24 and 25p. We have a lower cost. These features come at a cost. We lose full frame sensor. I suspect next step is the 9D with same features in a full sensor camera-- and perhaps with some of the other features we are looking for.. or maybe even a more traditionally designed video camera, alll at a higher price... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

September 1st, 2009, 11:15 AM	#35
Evan Donn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Philadelphia Posts: 795	To my mind the existence of the 7D with it's various frame rates basically puts to rest the argument that they kept the 5D at 30fps as a way to protect their video segment. That leaves me with the feeling that it is in fact a hardware limitation of some sort - maybe it's a clock timing issue, maybe the jello is too bad at lower frame rates on the big sensor, whatever. So I'm actually less inclined to believe we'll see a firmware update with new frame rates for the 5D at all. __________________ My latest short documentary: "Four Pauls: Bring the Hat Back!"

September 1st, 2009, 12:49 PM	#41
Jay Houser Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: St Paul MN Posts: 41	5D mk II vs 7D My opinions may be biased since I never bought a digital camera until the original 5D came out. As a former Hasselblad user and Canon film user, I did not want to deal with a crop sensor. As a 5D mk II owner, I will buy a 7D just for the extra reach. Since the 5D uses only every 3rd line for video and dumps the rest, I would expect the 7D video to acceptable. The second processor, extra FPS, improved focusing and affordability make this purchase a nobrainer. With these two cameras and a XH-A1, I should have all the bases covered. I could part with my original 5D tho, I quess!

September 1st, 2009, 01:12 PM	#43
Jay Houser Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: St Paul MN Posts: 41	5D mk II vs 7D My opinions may be biased since I never bought a digital camera until the original 5D came out. As a former Hasselblad user and Canon film user, I did not want to deal with a crop sensor. As a 5D mk II owner, I will buy a 7D just for the extra reach. Since the 5D uses only every 3rd line for video and dumps the rest, I would expect the 7D video to acceptable. The second processor, extra FPS, improved focusing and affordability make this purchase a nobrainer. With these two cameras and a XH-A1, I should have all the bases covered. I could part with my original 5D tho, I quess!

September 1st, 2009, 10:24 AM	#33
Bunseng Chuor Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Cambodia Posts: 43	i love my 5D, and i don't want to loss the full frame, and my FF glasses. i been have many great work with it. i know i can get 7D and the cost is affordable. but loss full frame? and a extra camera? is a no. that why i still want to have 24-60fps. it just a hope.

September 1st, 2009, 11:09 AM	#34
Francis Rene New Boot Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Gatineau, Canada Posts: 9	"These features come at a cost. We lose full frame sensor." This might sound like a dumb question but what is the benefit of a full size sensor over a smaller one for shooting video considering that it only use part of the sensor anyway?

September 1st, 2009, 11:20 AM	#36
James Miller Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sussex, UK Posts: 317	Would make a nice second camera with it's x1.6 a fast 2.8 /200mm Zoom and a x2 II Extender. 640mm. A nice benefit with the smaller sensor.

September 1st, 2009, 12:08 PM	#38
Tommi Hares New Boot Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Espoo, Finland Posts: 11	The problem I'm having with Canon is that they are giving away a supreme set of software settings for the 7D, but the hardware of the 7D is not in par with the 5D Mark II hardware (5D2 hardware is MUCH better). Just because the 7D system is "newer", does not mean the 5DmkII customers should suffer for it! I mean the 5D2 - in all areas - out performs the 7D. The ONLY thing the 7D has, is MORE SOFTWARE SETTINGS. To be honest, I don't care about the 720p/50/60 modes, I care about the 24/25 mode. And if that's not coming to their top-of-the-line models, who in their right mind would ever purchase the next "5D2" or "1D" if the next "7D" is going to have all that, plus some... I just know we're getting the 24/25p. That is just good customer support - and what they call in the business "after marketing". We're getting 24/25p. Just wait for it. If not? FU Canon! My next spare 3600€ wont be yours!

September 1st, 2009, 01:41 PM	#44
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Hi Jay, selling your original 5D should go a long way toward paying for a 7D. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!