C200 or 5D mkvi with C-Log to complement C100 mkii

[Hakob Hakobyan]

Hi,

First post here!
Need a little help deciding on my next video camera.
As of now I shoot mostly weddings and a few events here and there.

I use C100 mkii as main A camera and 70D as my 2nd camera. (with 6D thrown in as C camera when needed but not often). I shoot C-Log with C100 and flat picture profile on 70D.
I can feel quite a difference between C100 files and 70D files and basically want something better and easier to match shots faster/better.

I am not decided between C200 and 5D mk vi.
I was only considering C200 before but now with 5D vi's C-Log upgrade it could integrate into my workflow quite nicely as well.

On paper, if I look from purely image quality point of view 5D vi in C-Log should match quite nicely with C100 mkii.
However, C200 I feel like is more of a complete and future proof video camera albeit 2x the cost.

Basically, is it worth getting the C200 considering it is 2x the cost of 5D mkvi?

Thanks!

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Hakob Hakobyan

I shoot C-Log with C100 and flat picture profile on 70D.
I can feel quite a difference between C100 files and 70D files

That's because you shouldn't be shooting flat with the 70D. The 70D doesn't have a log gamma, so don't try to take it. All you do is stress the codec that the 70D records to and makes the footage look worse.

Basically, is it worth getting the C200 considering it is 2x the cost of 5D mkvi?

Consider this: the 5D Mark IV with Clog was announced at NAB, and since then, nothing. There has been zero information since April (it's now mid-June). If you don't shoot in 4K, the different in quality over your 70D will be negligible at this time.

[Hakob Hakobyan]

Hi Gary,

Thanks for reply.
When you say "If you don't shoot in 4K, the different in quality over your 70D will be negligible at this time." do you mean the difference between 70D and 5D mkvi? Do you eman the quality diff. will be small because 5D still hasn't gotten C-Log?
If I can with some budget stretch but still afford the C200, I doubt I can go wrong getting it right?

P.S. One thing that I couldn't find answer anywhere was weather the C200 screen is HD. I mean the C100 mkii screen is SD and that's one thing that I really don't like...

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Hakob Hakobyan

When you say "If you don't shoot in 4K, the different in quality over your 70D will be negligible at this time." do you mean the difference between 70D and 5D mkvi? Do you eman the quality diff. will be small because 5D still hasn't gotten C-Log?

I mean in shooting 1080p footage. The 5D Mark IV still uses basically the same 1080 engine that the previous models have.

CLog will not be of any noticeable benefit to you if you plan on using LUTs and tweaking saturation and contrast.

I mean the C100 mkii screen is SD and that's one thing that I really don't like...

Did you not like the res of the screen or how the screen looked? The screen looked great to me when I was using the C100 Mark II. No issues.

[Kevin O'Connor]

Hello Hakob, sounds like you’re okay with the performance of C-Log on your C100 Mk2 and want to keep that in your work flow. Also sounds like you want a B camera to match your C100 Mk2 performance.

If you only need the B-cam to match the A-cam why not get another C100 Mk2? The money you’ll save over the C200 will allow you to add (2) Atomos Ninja Flame monitor/recorders, now you’ll have true HD monitor s on both your camera setups.

[Hakob Hakobyan]

Hi Kevin,

Yes, I very much like C100 mkii and want another camera to go with it.

I don't think I will get another C100 mkii though because
1) Paying $4K nowadays for 1080P camera seems not a good idea from future proofing point of view.
2) I really want to get access to face AF and movable focusing screen that C100 mkii doesn't have for gimbal/glider work. To get that, I have to get either 5D mkvi or C200.
3) 5D mkvi could be a decent choice with upcoming C-Log update but it has many flows a s a video camera (no waveform, focus peaking, and a whole bunch of other video features). Plus, if I do ever need 4K files, its recording is too biig.
4) As I see now, C200 is the perfect camera for me to complement my C100 mkii. The only one con I see is the price but I think it's a fair deal for the kind of performance one is getting. I am really sure that with the upcoming XF-AVC update this camera will become an even better deal.

I am really leaning towards the C200 now...

[John Wiley]

No camera is "future proof" these days. Buy what you need now because by the time your needs change (eg you start delivering in 4K) there will be better cameras available at lower prices.

C200 does look like a great camera, but consider these 2 factors:

1) You're not going to be shooting RAW for weddings. Unless you absolutely love collecting hard drives, and are ready to add a few thousand dollars worth of CFast cards to the investment price.
2) If you're shooting alongside a C100mkII, your final output is going to be limited to 1080p anyway. So you'll probably end up shooting a lot of things at 1080p in 8-bit 4:2:0.

Canon have recently been notorious for having an "early adopter fee" - ie the camera is often significantly higher upon release, then drops down in price after a year or so. You could probably buy a used C100mkII now, then trade it for a new C200 in 18 months and pay a lot less in total than if you bought just a C200 right now. So unless you really need Raw or 4K right now, you're probably best served by another C100mkII for a while.

[Hakob Hakobyan]

Hi John,

You do raise a couple of valid points against C200.
I especially don't like the early adopter fee.

IF skipping C200, I would still probably go with 5D mkvi instead of another C100 mkii because of better AF. (face AF especially).
5D mkiv is especially not a bad choice considering I also do pictures and already have 2 5D mkiii's, so it will come in handy for photo only projects as well…

P.S. The most painful part of getting C200 is actually the fact that I have Shogun Inferno and getting C200 is gonna give me almost nothing extra (except 4:2:2 colro space)

[John Wiley]

Yes the external recording options on the C200 don't do much to expand its capabilities unfortunately!

Not sure I'd purchase a DSLR for video at all these days given all the other options available, but if you do stills as well I suppose it makes sense.

[Ben Moore]

"2) I really want to get access to face AF and movable focusing screen that C100 mkii doesn't have for gimbal/glider work "

The C100 mkii has Face AF with STM lenses. I use it all the time on the glidecam.

[Hakob Hakobyan]

Hi Ben Moore,

It has face AF with STM lenses but ti is probably not as good AF inplementation as Canon has nowadays.
That said, I don’t really know, it might actually be good. I guess I should rent an STM lens and see…
Either way, having only STM lenses face AF on C100 is kind of limiting…

[Steve Burkett]

Your main issue alas I'm afraid is Canon. Its great at colour and auto focus, but frankly terrible at giving you anything you as a Wedding Videographer might actually need. At least below $10000.

The C200 contains a wealth of Professional feature, but codec is either more than you need with RAW or the MP4 100mbps for 30p or 150 if shooting 60p that is forgivable on a GH5 at its price point and specs as a mirrorless hybrid, but shortsighted for a Professional video camera costing 3 times as much. I'd wait and see if updates next year pays dividends.

Then again you have the 5d Mark IV, with log now recently included as a paid extra, but lacking many essential video features, a codec for 4K that's inefficient and a crop to add insult to injury, plus no swivel screen. As a video tool, it fails for any run n gun work and more suited to small Promos and vanity projects.

I think either embrace Canon Cinema cameras and look at the C200 or C300, or else do as many others have done, seek a B camera from either Panasonic or Sony. The 5D Mark IV is for Photographers who do a bit of video on the side, not the other way around alas. Put aside your Canon loyalty and look at other manufacturers.

[Hakob Hakobyan]

Steve Burkett

That’s for your input.
Yes, you are right, I am a little bit of Canon fan.

That said, I agree that 5D mkiv is not a very good pro video camera solution that's why I don't want to get it, even as a "B" camera.

I am open to other manufacturers offerings. The question is what other manufacturer camera would be a good fit with my current C100 mkii?
I know Sony a7s ii is very popular and while it has amazing video quality which I don't doubt it still has its own shortcomings like short battery life or lack of ND filters.
I have been thinking for a while of actually even selling my C100 and getting 2 A7s ii as easy integration between 2 cameras is important to me.
I don't want to get pre-occupied with different controls while jumping between cameras on wedding day.

I could just buy another C100 but can't force myself to pay $4K for 1080P only camera in 2017.

With the same token I have heard good things about GH5…

Overall, it seems there is no ideal solution here. There is no perfect camera :(

P.S. Thinking about it more, I think the reason I got sucked in Canon Cinema line was because of AF, but in all honesty, I haven't tried other manufacturers video AF cameras.
Furthermore, I don't even use AF much, only on gimbal work.
Maybe other manufacturers are not that bad… I really think I should rent and see how other camera AF are!

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Hakob Hakobyan

I haven't tried other manufacturers video AF cameras.

The A7R Mark II comes close to DPAF, while the A6500 is even better. The A7S Mark II is really poor in that area.

[Dan Brockett]

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

The A7R Mark II comes close to DPAF, while the A6500 is even better. The A7S Mark II is really poor in that area.

The 5D MKIII or MKIV is not a good camera to use with the C100 MKII, the 5Ds appear to be incredibly soft and mushy in comparison to the relatively sharp and detailed images from the C100 MKII, plus 5Ds have stupid DOF issues with a FF sensor. I have cut footage between the two and the 5D footage pales in comparison to the C100 MKII footage.

You would actually have a better color and sharpness match using a Canon XC-15 since it also shoots C-Log and is designed to match. But fixed lens, slow lens, may not work for weddings, which are often not lit adequately and receptions, which are almost always dark it seems. I shoot an 80D and often cut between it and the C100/C300 and it's not a perfect match but we get them fairly close. Prolost Flat on the 80D and a modified Abel Cine 5D Match CP on the C100/300. Personally, I find shooting log on 8-bit cameras to be counterproductive, I think you end up with a better image if you bake it in or even with WDR with some tweaks.