C100 Mark II Grain? at DVinfo.net

Frank Manno · January 25th, 2016, 07:07 PM

I borrowed a C100 mark II to test for a few days..

I shot indoors using WIDE DR using various ISO's ranging from 350 to 4000.

I'm noticing a filmic grain.. It's not all that bad but it's there..

I'm just wondering what the cause of this could be?

-Frank

Nate Haustein · January 25th, 2016, 08:42 PM

WDR isn't a noise-free profile - quite the opposite really. To get that nice range, the camera needs to push and pull a little bit with the picture. Other profiles are cleaner, but how much it really matters is mostly up to the operator. As you said, "filmic." Is the little bit of noise worth the range? You decide.

Barry Goyette · January 28th, 2016, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Manno

I borrowed a C100 mark II to test for a few days..

I shot indoors using WIDE DR using various ISO's ranging from 350 to 4000.

I'm noticing a filmic grain.. It's not all that bad but it's there..

I'm just wondering what the cause of this could be?

-Frank

Frank, You've definitely hit on one of the primary features of the C series cameras. Canon's special sauce essentially replaced the typical macroblocking other cameras exhibit with a fine "filmic" grain. From descriptions I heard by various Canon representatives, this is essentially a product of the novel sensor readout, some noise reduction, followed by the addition of noise in the in image processing chain. (this by the way, is pretty much what an advanced colorist would do on a feature film...and is something that Arri appears to do on it's Alexa cameras albeit for slightly different reasons). Adding this noise to the signal helps mask some of the banding that might occur due to it's 8bit output and codec, and gives these cameras their signature look. The wide DR preset sharpens that noise more than the CLog gamma, and so you're seeing it a little more in this mode. To minimize the grain, shoot in CLog, or turn the sharpening in wide DR to it's lowest level. You'll be surprised how much better it gets. You can also make sure that you are "shooting to the right" as much as possible, but that can be difficult outside of the studio.

Barry

Bob Drummond · January 28th, 2016, 11:00 AM

The way I shoot now, and I've been shooting with C100 MK I's and II's basically every day since the MK I was released, is if I have to start bumping the ISO above 850, I switch from WIDE DR to a CINE1 profile with sharpness at the lowest setting a few ticks of noise reduction turned on.

I think a CINE1 profile like that is cleaner at all ISO levels than WIDE DR, though obviously you're mileage will vary. How far you you're comfortable pushing the ISO on WIDE DR is up to you, and I encourage you to test for yourself.

I shoot a lot of available-light events, and I got burned too many times leaving it on WIDE DR and cranking the ISO, especially if I was shooting 60p and needed a faster shutter.

Keep in mind the MKII is supposedly a bit cleaner than the MKI at any comparable setting.

Here's a higher-ISO test I did on the MKII. CINE 1 profile, not sure if noise reduction was active or not. If it was, it wouldn't have been higher than 2 or 3. You can download the camera original file from this link too: https://vimeo.com/bobdrummond/review...702/9531a79239

Not pixel peeping and just looking at the video on vimeo, I'm very comfortable using up to 16,000 ISO, and higher would be usable with a little image manipulation.

January 25th, 2016, 07:07 PM	#1
Frank Manno New Boot Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sydney NSW Posts: 15	C100 Mark II Grain? I borrowed a C100 mark II to test for a few days.. I shot indoors using WIDE DR using various ISO's ranging from 350 to 4000. I'm noticing a filmic grain.. It's not all that bad but it's there.. I'm just wondering what the cause of this could be? -Frank

January 25th, 2016, 08:42 PM	#2
Nate Haustein Trustee Join Date: May 2007 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 1,313	Re: C100 Mark II Grain? WDR isn't a noise-free profile - quite the opposite really. To get that nice range, the camera needs to push and pull a little bit with the picture. Other profiles are cleaner, but how much it really matters is mostly up to the operator. As you said, "filmic." Is the little bit of noise worth the range? You decide. __________________ Nate Haustein PXW-FX9 / FCPX www.flightcreativemedia.com

January 28th, 2016, 11:00 AM	#4
Bob Drummond Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 161	Re: C100 Mark II Grain? The way I shoot now, and I've been shooting with C100 MK I's and II's basically every day since the MK I was released, is if I have to start bumping the ISO above 850, I switch from WIDE DR to a CINE1 profile with sharpness at the lowest setting a few ticks of noise reduction turned on. I think a CINE1 profile like that is cleaner at all ISO levels than WIDE DR, though obviously you're mileage will vary. How far you you're comfortable pushing the ISO on WIDE DR is up to you, and I encourage you to test for yourself. I shoot a lot of available-light events, and I got burned too many times leaving it on WIDE DR and cranking the ISO, especially if I was shooting 60p and needed a faster shutter. Keep in mind the MKII is supposedly a bit cleaner than the MKI at any comparable setting. Here's a higher-ISO test I did on the MKII. CINE 1 profile, not sure if noise reduction was active or not. If it was, it wouldn't have been higher than 2 or 3. You can download the camera original file from this link too: https://vimeo.com/bobdrummond/review...702/9531a79239 Not pixel peeping and just looking at the video on vimeo, I'm very comfortable using up to 16,000 ISO, and higher would be usable with a little image manipulation.