PRESS picture function not working on C100 MK1 at DVinfo.net

Bob Drummond · October 18th, 2015, 11:09 AM

Hi there. I posted this on the other forum, but still no insight.

Super nerdy question here. No matter what I try, I can't get the PRESS setting to have any effect on the picture on my mk1's.

The setting is in the custom picture settings under other functions / setup level / press. As I under stand the manual, PRESS should compress the video signal so it lives between 0 and 100% IRE (no superwhites). And that is indeed how the function works on the mkII. But no matter what I do, I can't get the PRESS setting to have any effect on the mk1's waveform. I've tried several different gammas.

I contacted Canon service, but I don't understand the response:

"After you have made adjustments to the Custom Picture Setting (PRESS, Gamma, etc.), save the preset as a Custom Picture File. Leave the menu and press the [CUSTOM PICTURE] button and select Custom Picture File you just saved. Check the LCD again to see whether there are noticeable changes to the waveform."

Can anyone with a MK1 please let me know if they can get the "press" setting to do anything?

Gary Huff · October 18th, 2015, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Drummond

But no matter what I do, I can't get the PRESS setting to have any effect on the mk1's waveform. I've tried several different gammas.

What effect are you looking to have exactly?

Bob Drummond · October 19th, 2015, 07:11 AM

I'm looking to take the full video signal, 0% IRE to whatever the top end is with super whites, (110% IRE?), and "press" the whole signal down so it does not go over 100%. That's how the function is supposed to work on the MK1, and that's how it actually works on the MK2.

You can also simply clip the signal at 100%, so it just literally cuts off the extra detail, but I'm not trying to do that right now.

There are a few reasons you might want to try this. If you just let the waveform go all the way above 100 into the super whites, you either have to correct every single clip to bring them down into legal range,or else you're losing some detail and causing potential problems with certain display devices.

Another reason I'm trying this is that the lowest noise profiles I've seen for the Mk1 are made in part by eliminating super whites. A very brief, non scientific test of high ISO noise on the Mk2 seemed to indicate to me that when"press" was engaged, it did actually result in lower overall noise.

Gary Huff · October 19th, 2015, 07:16 AM

What are you seeing that tells you it's not working? Are you looking at the waveform only? Are you bringing the clip into an NLE and looking at it there?

Also, the best way to avoid noise is to not underexpose your image.

Bob Drummond · October 19th, 2015, 07:40 AM

Yes, I'm looking at the waveform as I'm turning the function on and off. And I'm looking at it later. It is not "pressing" the signal as the manual says it should nor as the C100 Mk2 does correctly in real time.

Thanks for the exposure tip. I know there are lots of ways to minimize noise. One of them is using the right profile for he right situation. I'm trying to make a nice high ISO profile that matches between the MK1 and MK2.

Gary Huff · October 19th, 2015, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Drummond

One of them is using the right profile for the right situation.

This, in my opinion, is the absolute worst way to do it, especially if you want consistency. The best way using a profile is to turn up the internal NR if you need a fast turnaround or if it is explicitly request of you.

The way you should be striving for is a) add lighting b) use fast lenses c) never underexpose. I'd rather shoot at 12,800 ISO to keep the scene from being underexposed than to shoot at 6400 and be a stop under.

However, as far as the PRESS option is concerned, are you on the latest firmware on the C100? While not explicitly stating that there were any firmware updates to address this issue, it's also good to know all the same.

Bob Drummond · October 19th, 2015, 11:50 AM

I agree with all those ideas for minimizing noise, Gary. But it's perfectly reasonable to also want to use the right picture profile for the right job. For example, stock WIDE DR looks quite a bit worse at high ISOs compared to, say, stock CINE 1.

I assume I'm on the latest firmware for the mk1. It has the dual pixel AF, so doesn't require the newest firmware? I'll verify later though.

I'm just wondering if I found a bug no one has noticed yet with the C100 firmware.

Gary Huff · October 19th, 2015, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Drummond

assume I'm on the latest firmware for the mk1. It has the dual pixel AF, so doesn't require the newest firmware? I'll verify later though.

I'm pretty sure you're right about that. Could definitely be a bug.

Josh Bass · October 19th, 2015, 12:33 PM

Any NLE should have a "broadcast colors" or something filter you could blanket apply to all clips or the sequence that should clamp the whites/blacks. Granted, they may simply chop off the "extra" rather than compressing, but maybe not, these days. But you shouldn't have to hand correct every clip shot by shot for that reason.

October 18th, 2015, 11:09 AM	#1
Bob Drummond Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 161	PRESS picture function not working on C100 MK1 Hi there. I posted this on the other forum, but still no insight. Super nerdy question here. No matter what I try, I can't get the PRESS setting to have any effect on the picture on my mk1's. The setting is in the custom picture settings under other functions / setup level / press. As I under stand the manual, PRESS should compress the video signal so it lives between 0 and 100% IRE (no superwhites). And that is indeed how the function works on the mkII. But no matter what I do, I can't get the PRESS setting to have any effect on the mk1's waveform. I've tried several different gammas. I contacted Canon service, but I don't understand the response: "After you have made adjustments to the Custom Picture Setting (PRESS, Gamma, etc.), save the preset as a Custom Picture File. Leave the menu and press the [CUSTOM PICTURE] button and select Custom Picture File you just saved. Check the LCD again to see whether there are noticeable changes to the waveform." Can anyone with a MK1 please let me know if they can get the "press" setting to do anything?

October 19th, 2015, 07:11 AM	#3
Bob Drummond Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 161	Re: PRESS picture function not working on C100 MK1 I'm looking to take the full video signal, 0% IRE to whatever the top end is with super whites, (110% IRE?), and "press" the whole signal down so it does not go over 100%. That's how the function is supposed to work on the MK1, and that's how it actually works on the MK2. You can also simply clip the signal at 100%, so it just literally cuts off the extra detail, but I'm not trying to do that right now. There are a few reasons you might want to try this. If you just let the waveform go all the way above 100 into the super whites, you either have to correct every single clip to bring them down into legal range,or else you're losing some detail and causing potential problems with certain display devices. Another reason I'm trying this is that the lowest noise profiles I've seen for the Mk1 are made in part by eliminating super whites. A very brief, non scientific test of high ISO noise on the Mk2 seemed to indicate to me that when"press" was engaged, it did actually result in lower overall noise.

October 19th, 2015, 07:16 AM	#4
Gary Huff Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,006	Re: PRESS picture function not working on C100 MK1 What are you seeing that tells you it's not working? Are you looking at the waveform only? Are you bringing the clip into an NLE and looking at it there? Also, the best way to avoid noise is to not underexpose your image.

October 19th, 2015, 07:40 AM	#5
Bob Drummond Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 161	Re: PRESS picture function not working on C100 MK1 Yes, I'm looking at the waveform as I'm turning the function on and off. And I'm looking at it later. It is not "pressing" the signal as the manual says it should nor as the C100 Mk2 does correctly in real time. Thanks for the exposure tip. I know there are lots of ways to minimize noise. One of them is using the right profile for he right situation. I'm trying to make a nice high ISO profile that matches between the MK1 and MK2.

October 19th, 2015, 11:50 AM	#7
Bob Drummond Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 161	Re: PRESS picture function not working on C100 MK1 I agree with all those ideas for minimizing noise, Gary. But it's perfectly reasonable to also want to use the right picture profile for the right job. For example, stock WIDE DR looks quite a bit worse at high ISOs compared to, say, stock CINE 1. I assume I'm on the latest firmware for the mk1. It has the dual pixel AF, so doesn't require the newest firmware? I'll verify later though. I'm just wondering if I found a bug no one has noticed yet with the C100 firmware.

October 19th, 2015, 12:33 PM	#9
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Re: PRESS picture function not working on C100 MK1 Any NLE should have a "broadcast colors" or something filter you could blanket apply to all clips or the sequence that should clamp the whites/blacks. Granted, they may simply chop off the "extra" rather than compressing, but maybe not, these days. But you shouldn't have to hand correct every clip shot by shot for that reason. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB