C100 Frustration at DVinfo.net

Jim Andrada · May 24th, 2015, 08:56 PM

I picked up a C100 (Ml I) a few weeks back. I really like the camera.. But I'm going nuts trying to get the AVCHD footage into Resolve as Progressive. No matter what I try it seems to treat it as Interlaced.

I know they basically encode as progressive in a 59.94i wrapper but Resolve doesn't seem to figure out that it's really progressive.

Any good ideas??? I'm on Resolve 11 and will probably be downloading 12 as soon as it ships.

Thanks

By the way, I'm on Windows 7

Gary Huff · May 25th, 2015, 07:38 AM

You need to shoot 24P not PF24. There is no reason to ever shoot PF24.

Jim Andrada · May 25th, 2015, 11:18 AM

Thanks for the reply.

I've been shooting at 29.97, not 24. A lot of applications seem to understand that it's progressive footage in a 59.94i wrapper, but not Resolve. I can tweak Premier to tell it that it's really progressiv and I understand there's a similar way to do it in Final Cut. but haven't found any similar way to tell Resolve.

I tried a bunch of transcoders - ClipWrap (turned out to be Mac only) 5DtoRGB, and a few others didn't work. Even tried rendering out of Vegas to Cineform before importing to Resolve (That works fine, but Vegas doesn't always cooperate fully!!!) Haven't tried Edius, but I will the next time since it's on my system.

When I have the Ninja 2 on the camera that takes care of the problem, but there are those times I want to minimize size and weight.

I did come across something called MTS/M2TS Converter and it does seem to work OK and convert everything in a folder as a batch. Doesn't seem to visually degrade the video, but I can't believe that anything has zero negative effect.

Alex Harper · May 28th, 2015, 03:19 AM

Gary the C100 MKI only has PF24 there is no 24P.

Gary Huff · May 28th, 2015, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Harper

Gary the C100 MKI only has PF24 there is no 24P.

Absolutely not true. The C100 Mark I has 60i, PF30, PF24, and 24P as selectable framerates.

Where are you getting this idea that it doesn't?

Andrew Maslen · May 28th, 2015, 09:24 AM

PAL vs NSTC ?

Gary Huff · May 28th, 2015, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Maslen

PAL vs NSTC ?

PAL only has 50i and PF25 since 25p only needs 2:2 pulldown, which is simple. But it would be a gross error in judgement to simply assume that the NTSC side is an exact match, especially considering that 24p in 60i requires 3:2 pulldown, which requires fancier removal methods than mere 2:2.

Jim Andrada · May 29th, 2015, 03:49 PM

My inclination has been to stay away from anything called "xPFy" so I leave it at 60i (59.94i).

I don't quite get what the "PF" is all about as of yet.

Gary Huff · May 29th, 2015, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Andrada

My inclination has been to stay away from anything called "xPFy" so I leave it at 60i (59.94i). I don't quite get what the "PF" is all about as of yet.

Then you will always be shooting 60i, and the only thing you can turn it into is 29.97 progressive by throwing away half of the resolution of your image. Are you okay with that?

I don't understand why you were confused that Resolve would see the interlaced footage you shot as interlaced if you are intentionally setting your camera to 60i.

Jim Andrada · May 29th, 2015, 06:20 PM

My understanding is that the footage is actually 30P progressive with a 60i wrapper so I don't think I'm throwing away anything. When I bring it into Resolve it looks awful - you can clearly see the (de-interlace???) lines. When I record to ProRes in the Ninja-2 it reports seeing incoming 59.94i and records as 29.97P ProRes. Vegas sees it as 29.97P and it looks fine. When I use the Ninja with my old JVC Hd110 it also reports 59.94i and records 29.97P ProRes and I know for sure that the JVC is sending 29.97P.

This is actually all too damned confusing. I'd absolutely love to see a straight simple explanation of what's really going on.

Edit

I've been rummaging around the internet and the the simplest thing I've found says that the camera is taking one progressive frame and writing it as two "sort of interlaced" frames. - otherwise known as Progressive Segmented Frames". = PSf. Of course, it isn't really interlaced because it's dividing one 1/30th second frame into two halves instead of taking a half frame every 1/60 of a second.

Not sure I have the whole story yet though.

Gary Huff · May 29th, 2015, 06:44 PM

It's very simple. 60i is straight 60i. 24p is straight 24p. PF30 is 60i with 30p embedded with 2:2 pulldown. PF24 is 60i with 24p embedded via 3:2 pulldown.

Jim Andrada · June 1st, 2015, 01:58 AM

Thanks - that does make it sound simple.

This is my first brush with AVCHD - sounds like it was designed by a committee of Congressmen in an attempt to solve yesterday's problems poorly. In which they succeeded.

In spite of all that the camera produces lovely footage and I'm using it with a Ninja-2 most of the time anyway.

May 24th, 2015, 08:56 PM	#1
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	C100 Frustration I picked up a C100 (Ml I) a few weeks back. I really like the camera.. But I'm going nuts trying to get the AVCHD footage into Resolve as Progressive. No matter what I try it seems to treat it as Interlaced. I know they basically encode as progressive in a 59.94i wrapper but Resolve doesn't seem to figure out that it's really progressive. Any good ideas??? I'm on Resolve 11 and will probably be downloading 12 as soon as it ships. Thanks By the way, I'm on Windows 7 Last edited by Jim Andrada; May 25th, 2015 at 02:16 AM.

May 25th, 2015, 07:38 AM	#2
Gary Huff Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,006	Re: C100 Frustration You need to shoot 24P not PF24. There is no reason to ever shoot PF24.

May 25th, 2015, 11:18 AM	#3
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: C100 Frustration Thanks for the reply. I've been shooting at 29.97, not 24. A lot of applications seem to understand that it's progressive footage in a 59.94i wrapper, but not Resolve. I can tweak Premier to tell it that it's really progressiv and I understand there's a similar way to do it in Final Cut. but haven't found any similar way to tell Resolve. I tried a bunch of transcoders - ClipWrap (turned out to be Mac only) 5DtoRGB, and a few others didn't work. Even tried rendering out of Vegas to Cineform before importing to Resolve (That works fine, but Vegas doesn't always cooperate fully!!!) Haven't tried Edius, but I will the next time since it's on my system. When I have the Ninja 2 on the camera that takes care of the problem, but there are those times I want to minimize size and weight. I did come across something called MTS/M2TS Converter and it does seem to work OK and convert everything in a folder as a batch. Doesn't seem to visually degrade the video, but I can't believe that anything has zero negative effect.

May 28th, 2015, 03:19 AM	#4
Alex Harper Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Johannesburg Posts: 44	Re: C100 Frustration Gary the C100 MKI only has PF24 there is no 24P.

May 28th, 2015, 09:24 AM	#6
Andrew Maslen New Boot Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Bedford Posts: 5	Re: C100 Frustration PAL vs NSTC ?

May 29th, 2015, 03:49 PM	#8
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: C100 Frustration My inclination has been to stay away from anything called "xPFy" so I leave it at 60i (59.94i). I don't quite get what the "PF" is all about as of yet.

May 29th, 2015, 06:20 PM	#10
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: C100 Frustration My understanding is that the footage is actually 30P progressive with a 60i wrapper so I don't think I'm throwing away anything. When I bring it into Resolve it looks awful - you can clearly see the (de-interlace???) lines. When I record to ProRes in the Ninja-2 it reports seeing incoming 59.94i and records as 29.97P ProRes. Vegas sees it as 29.97P and it looks fine. When I use the Ninja with my old JVC Hd110 it also reports 59.94i and records 29.97P ProRes and I know for sure that the JVC is sending 29.97P. This is actually all too damned confusing. I'd absolutely love to see a straight simple explanation of what's really going on. Edit I've been rummaging around the internet and the the simplest thing I've found says that the camera is taking one progressive frame and writing it as two "sort of interlaced" frames. - otherwise known as Progressive Segmented Frames". = PSf. Of course, it isn't really interlaced because it's dividing one 1/30th second frame into two halves instead of taking a half frame every 1/60 of a second. Not sure I have the whole story yet though. Last edited by Jim Andrada; May 29th, 2015 at 07:29 PM.

May 29th, 2015, 06:44 PM	#11
Gary Huff Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,006	Re: C100 Frustration It's very simple. 60i is straight 60i. 24p is straight 24p. PF30 is 60i with 30p embedded with 2:2 pulldown. PF24 is 60i with 24p embedded via 3:2 pulldown.

June 1st, 2015, 01:58 AM	#12
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: C100 Frustration Thanks - that does make it sound simple. This is my first brush with AVCHD - sounds like it was designed by a committee of Congressmen in an attempt to solve yesterday's problems poorly. In which they succeeded. In spite of all that the camera produces lovely footage and I'm using it with a Ninja-2 most of the time anyway.