C100 and white balance

Noa Put · February 16th, 2015, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kathy Smith

Can you describe how you do this again?

You can find several videos on youtube explaining how to do this, just search for expodisc.

Gary Huff · February 16th, 2015, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kathy Smith

If I'm shooting at night outside with lots of different lights (I'm going to a festival of lights) and I want to shoot a person let's say walking by all these different light sources. How do I set my white balance?

Depends on what the basis for the lights is. Tungsten based, I'd set to 3200 manually and leave it there. If they are LED based lights, then 5500 or so.

Ken Diewert · February 16th, 2015, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kathy Smith

But doesn't the AWB change mid-shoot if you are outside for example and the lighting changes?

Yes... you can see the kelvin temperature scale change if the lighting changes... But if the light changes, you have to re-balance anyways. In this case you're just trusting it to the camera... If you're locked in at 3200 and you walk outside and shoot without manually changing over... look out.

Gary Huff · February 16th, 2015, 10:28 AM

But if you're trying to shoot a scenario that involves colored lighting (take, for instance, a tungsten bulb at 3200 kelvin with a gel in front of it to give a desired color effect) then it will probably be inaccurate. The intent of putting a gel in front of the light is to give a color, you don't want the camera to interpret that color as white, you want it to interpret it as red.

That can be the issue with AWB.

I shot a concert a few months ago and there were normal tungsten lights and then colored lights for effect. I manually white balanced against the normal tungsten fixture and not with the card pointed towards one of the colored lights because that would have skewed the colors in a way that was neither accurate or pleasing.

Ken Diewert · February 16th, 2015, 10:30 PM

Agreed... there are some situations where you just have to dial it in and live with it. I found the worst lighting to be those streetlights that you couldn't stop from being yellow no matter what.

In your case Kathy, it seems like you can choose what you want the look to be. I the primary dominant source is the lanterns, I would expect that the sources may be mixed or LED (cooler) If they were candles they would be fairly warm.

If you're shooting to a ninja in pro res, I would think that you would have a fair amount of room to tweak it later. I haven't had to push colors too much yet. Not so sure with the internal AVCHD. I know that with the 5D2, I had to get it pretty close in camera, because the footage didn't like to be pushed too far at all.

You could run around to all the lanterns or lights and gel them blue ;-)

I would expect that if anything, you will have a lot of low light noise to deal with as well as temperature issues.

Daniel Epstein · February 17th, 2015, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kathy Smith

That's the thing I can't tell by looking at the screen so I simply set it to whatever I think it should be but then I look on the computer and it's always wrong

Hey Kathy,
What you want to get used to is how the camera looks on your computer compared to the on camera display. Do you have an external field monitor you use? This is usually better for judging color than the camera viewfinders. You have to come up with something you trust to make decisions in the field which work when you are in the edit. You may find everything needs a bit of adjustment.

Kathy Smith · February 17th, 2015, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ken Diewert

Agreed... there are some situations where you just have to dial it in and live with it. I found the worst lighting to be those streetlights that you couldn't stop from being yellow no matter what.

In your case Kathy, it seems like you can choose what you want the look to be. I the primary dominant source is the lanterns, I would expect that the sources may be mixed or LED (cooler) If they were candles they would be fairly warm.

If you're shooting to a ninja in pro res, I would think that you would have a fair amount of room to tweak it later. I haven't had to push colors too much yet. Not so sure with the internal AVCHD. I know that with the 5D2, I had to get it pretty close in camera, because the footage didn't like to be pushed too far at all.

You could run around to all the lanterns or lights and gel them blue ;-)

I would expect that if anything, you will have a lot of low light noise to deal with as well as temperature issues.

Yeah, noise will be an issue, but for my purpose anything up to 6400 with noise reduction in post is fine.

Kathy Smith · February 17th, 2015, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Epstein

Hey Kathy,
What you want to get used to is how the camera looks on your computer compared to the on camera display. Do you have an external field monitor you use? This is usually better for judging color than the camera viewfinders. You have to come up something you trust to make decisions in the field which work when you are in the edit. You may find everything needs a bit of adjustment.

Yeah, I will have to do some tests. I do have a field monitor, but for my next shoot I won't be bringing it as I will be mostly shooting outdoors, will probably shoot on a monopod so I want to keep the camera light.

Kathy Smith · February 17th, 2015, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Epstein

Hey Kathy,
What you want to get used to is how the camera looks on your computer compared to the on camera display. Do you have an external field monitor you use? This is usually better for judging color than the camera viewfinders. You have to come up something you trust to make decisions in the field which work when you are in the edit. You may find everything needs a bit of adjustment.

I'll ask a generic question. Is there any kind of white balance issue which can't be fixed in post?
Also does anyone have a chart with all the possible light sources one may encounter while filming and their K temperatures? I could google it but all the ones I find are not exactly what I'm looking for.

Gary Huff · February 17th, 2015, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kathy Smith

Also does anyone have a chart with all the possible light sources one may encounter while filming and their K temperatures?

Get this http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/716956-REG/WhiBal_WB7_RC_G7_White_Balance_Reference.html, fill the frame with it while it is positioned in the light you will be shooting under, and manually white balance. That will work every time.

Kathy Smith · February 17th, 2015, 02:45 PM

Thank you.

Kathy Smith · February 17th, 2015, 02:47 PM

OK, here is a clip I just did. I shot it in WDR. Overall it looks like crap. I the colors are off, it looks kind of grainy. I hardly ever feel like I got great footage out of this camera. What am I doing wrong???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPcB...ature=youtu.be

Gary Huff · February 17th, 2015, 02:51 PM

You are shooting indoors with what is probably fluorescent overhead lighting, but next to a window, which has a much different Kelvin temperature. You have a shaft of light cutting against the iMac screen which looks very unpleasant, and the location you have of the camera has the human subject butting against the left side of the frame with the iMac on the right and nothing between the two. Thus, your composition is also poor and brings down the pleasantness of the shot in general.

And that says nothing of the motion of the camera as the operator seems very unsure of where they want the camera to go.

It's a combination of things, but if you want to focus on the primary issue, it's that you can't shoot right next to a window when the primary light source for your subject will be a fluorescent-lit person.

Simply put, you have to reset everything about this shot in order to make it work.

Kathy Smith · February 17th, 2015, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

You are shooting indoors with what is probably fluorescent overhead lighting, but next to a window, which has a much different Kelvin temperature. You have a shaft of light cutting against the iMac screen which looks very unpleasant, and the location you have of the camera has the human subject butting against the left side of the frame with the iMac on the right and nothing between the two. Thus, your composition is also poor and brings down the pleasantness of the shot in general.

And that says nothing of the motion of the camera as the operator seems very unsure of where they want the camera to go.

It's a combination of things, but if you want to focus on the primary issue, it's that you can't shoot right next to a window when the primary light source for your subject will be a fluorescent-lit person.

Simply put, you have to reset everything about this shot in order to make it work.

HAHA Gary, this is not a real shoot. These are test shots in the worse case scenario. I would never use this subject, this framing etc. I am often forced to shoot in this combination of light so that's why I asked about the quality of the footage NOT the composition. This was just a first guy sitting at a desk that I grabbed as my test subject.

Gary Huff · February 17th, 2015, 03:17 PM

I think it's a lot harder to separate all the elements of a shot in order to focus on one specific thing. Just because it's a test doesn't mean it has to look like that overall.

My tests still follow proper composition and camera movement, even the ones no one else ever sees.

February 16th, 2015, 10:28 AM	#19
Gary Huff Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,006	Re: C100 and white balance But if you're trying to shoot a scenario that involves colored lighting (take, for instance, a tungsten bulb at 3200 kelvin with a gel in front of it to give a desired color effect) then it will probably be inaccurate. The intent of putting a gel in front of the light is to give a color, you don't want the camera to interpret that color as white, you want it to interpret it as red. That can be the issue with AWB. I shot a concert a few months ago and there were normal tungsten lights and then colored lights for effect. I manually white balanced against the normal tungsten fixture and not with the card pointed towards one of the colored lights because that would have skewed the colors in a way that was neither accurate or pleasing.

February 16th, 2015, 10:30 PM	#20
Ken Diewert Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Vancouver Island, Canada Posts: 1,200	Re: C100 and white balance Agreed... there are some situations where you just have to dial it in and live with it. I found the worst lighting to be those streetlights that you couldn't stop from being yellow no matter what. In your case Kathy, it seems like you can choose what you want the look to be. I the primary dominant source is the lanterns, I would expect that the sources may be mixed or LED (cooler) If they were candles they would be fairly warm. If you're shooting to a ninja in pro res, I would think that you would have a fair amount of room to tweak it later. I haven't had to push colors too much yet. Not so sure with the internal AVCHD. I know that with the 5D2, I had to get it pretty close in camera, because the footage didn't like to be pushed too far at all. You could run around to all the lanterns or lights and gel them blue ;-) I would expect that if anything, you will have a lot of low light noise to deal with as well as temperature issues. __________________ C100, 5DMk2, FCPX

February 17th, 2015, 02:45 PM	#26
Kathy Smith Major Player Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: NY, NY USA Posts: 519	Re: C100 and white balance Thank you.

February 17th, 2015, 02:47 PM	#27
Kathy Smith Major Player Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: NY, NY USA Posts: 519	Re: C100 and white balance OK, here is a clip I just did. I shot it in WDR. Overall it looks like crap. I the colors are off, it looks kind of grainy. I hardly ever feel like I got great footage out of this camera. What am I doing wrong??? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPcB...ature=youtu.be

February 17th, 2015, 02:51 PM	#28
Gary Huff Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,006	Re: C100 and white balance You are shooting indoors with what is probably fluorescent overhead lighting, but next to a window, which has a much different Kelvin temperature. You have a shaft of light cutting against the iMac screen which looks very unpleasant, and the location you have of the camera has the human subject butting against the left side of the frame with the iMac on the right and nothing between the two. Thus, your composition is also poor and brings down the pleasantness of the shot in general. And that says nothing of the motion of the camera as the operator seems very unsure of where they want the camera to go. It's a combination of things, but if you want to focus on the primary issue, it's that you can't shoot right next to a window when the primary light source for your subject will be a fluorescent-lit person. Simply put, you have to reset everything about this shot in order to make it work.

February 17th, 2015, 03:17 PM	#30
Gary Huff Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,006	Re: C100 and white balance I think it's a lot harder to separate all the elements of a shot in order to focus on one specific thing. Just because it's a test doesn't mean it has to look like that overall. My tests still follow proper composition and camera movement, even the ones no one else ever sees.