C100 + Ninja 2 = Outstanding

[Mike Hammond]

Hi all,

Just got my C100 last week and did some shooting/testing with it. Everything I shot was in WDR which absolutely blows me away. Side note; I come from the 5D mark 2 and this camera is, in one word, incredible.
I found myself overcoming just about every frustration I had with the 5D while using the C100 - ND filters built in, moveable LCD, ergonomics, control, picture quality, dynamic range, etc. Unbelievable.

I had the opportunity to use the camera at a pro shoot yesterday and cannot get over how good it looks straight from the camera. And every time I starting getting frustrated with some aspect of the shoot - whether it was not being able to see the LCD because the camera was angled a certain way, or if I was secretly cursing the notion that a scene was too bright and was going to require me stopping to grab an ND filter, or the natural light I had was too low and I was afraid of bumping up some ISO to deal with it - I remembered this wasn't my 5D and viola, frustration averted.

Bonus? The resulting files from the Ninja Pro Res 422 are a breeze in Vegas.

Cons? I think the AVCHD files from the camera - my opinion - are a little lacking in quality. There is some noise which I don't find to be horrible, but it definitely goes away/looks better in the Ninja files. And Definitely missing from either the AVCHD or Ninja files is blocky, spazzy noise like the 5D mark 2 was giving me.


That's all there is to say. Just putting this out there for anyone who might be thinking about getting the camera.

[Art Varga]

Mike -I love mine too for all the same reasons! Getting ready to shoot a short that will only be published on the web. Do you think it's worth it to rent a Ninja? I've heard from others who say that once its compressed you really can't tell the difference. I was thinking about just shooting c-log to give me the best latitude for grading. Can you edit the Pro Res files natively in Vegas or do they need to be transcoded?

Art

[Mike Hammond]

Hey Art,

I'll agree with others that for web you don't need the Ninja. I used it because the pieces I'm shooting are destined for TV and theaters. The straight out footage really does look good.

And from what I've just experienced, the Ninja files pop right into Vegas for nice smooth editing.

Mike

[Art Varga]

Thanks Mike - good to know that vegas handles the Pro Res files easily.

Art

[James Davis]

I really dont see any difference with the Ninja 2

[Matt Davis]

There are times when the AVCHD is just fine (80%?), there are times when the AVCHD can look a little better than the Ninja at ProRes422 - rare occasions due to challenging circumstances - and there are situations that can kill AVCHD.

I've joked in my C100 workshop that the worse situation for AVCHD and where a Ninja would be obligatory would be filming the Ferrari F1 team in the pits: lots of red, lots of detail, lots of motion. One chap said that it's even worse at Sikh weddings - lots of red fabric in action! Definitely a Ninja job.

Here's a sequence showing how AVCHD can't really cope with high motion with high detail.

AVCHD Killed by a tree

You can see the LongGOP IPPB sequence really clearly.

So, you get a Ninja - but... BUT! Be careful. The AVCHD recording includes a soupçon of noise reduction, but the ProRes 422 codec can bog down on the noise, especially in the 25-35 IRE area:

http://www.mdma.tv/c100/noiseandprores.jpg

In low-key shots (lots of murky shadow details) you need to use the ProResHQ setting to provide enough bandwidth to capture the naturally 'diffusion dithered 8 bit' C100 image.

Hence this dichotomy of 'yes you need a Ninja' and 'no you don't need a Ninja' - you sometimes need a Ninja but you might go a whole year without using it in anger. Depends on what you shoot and how.

[Mike Hammond]

Hi James,

Matt, I think, nailed it with the last image in his post. But for me and some others who are shooting for broadcast the Ninja is even more important in order to get a broadcast-ready bit rate. To be honest, if I didn't need to shoot for TV, I might have held off the Ninja 2 purchase. But it was kind of a necessity.

I can tell you that filming in darker situations with higher ISOs, the Ninja Pro Res 422 definitely looks better than the AVCHD.

[James Davis]

I own one and I do use it, I mix the AVCHD and ProRes clips in my timeline when i edit. There is a SLIGHT difference when i shoot at night.