Canon C300 - framerates firmware update!

Mat Thompson · November 27th, 2013, 08:46 AM

"And And And......slow motion should not be first on one's list in buying a camera!" - I think as with any camera that depends on what your doing with it! I also wouldn't have bought the camera if it had of been the first thing on my list. But the point remains that at least a 1080 50p offering on this camera would please a lot of their customers, however it was delivered.

Thanks for your response though and if the C300 is really being strangled by its internal hardware I think that is a shame and it will push me away from this camera sooner. Until I see the maths I will remain doudtful they couldn't improve its framerate offerings by playing with bit rates or even using an extrenal recorder. What it does it does well on the whole but this is a frustrating sticking point!

Jim Martin · November 27th, 2013, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Watson

... and yet slow mo is number one on my list right now. I've been looking for a good, affordable high-speed capable camera for two years now. Not a Canon fan-boy but do have lots of Canon glass I'd like to not have to replace. I wonder how many Sony FS700 cameras have been bought for their high-speed. It looks like the obvious choice. Since it's my money, I get to choose what features are most important, if nobody agrees with that, well, "Frankly Charlotte..." Maybe Canon SHOULD get on the ball and put the feature in their cameras already before the fad sputters out.

Mark Watson

Case in point: the FS 700 can do those high frame rates but....the codec is not as good as the C300 (mpeg4 4-2-0 color vs mpeg2 50mb 4-2-2 color broadcast approved), ergonomically, while better than it's predecessor the FS100, still leaves something to be desired, and is not as good/clean in low light as the C300.
All we try to convey here is making sure our clients focus on the day-to-day of production....do the batteries last long, is there good functionality, is everything built in vs. having to buy a bunch of additional stuff, etc.
Production is hard enough with surprises every day so is there something that can help your day, make it easier, make things move faster........that's all

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

BTW, our new, revamped web site is up, Yea!

Gabe Strong · November 28th, 2013, 02:15 AM

The FS700 records with the same 4:2:0 codec that the C100 uses. Yup, the C300 codec is nicer.
Like the C100, the FS700 can record the same codec that the C300 uses with an external recorder.
Unlike both the C100 AND C300, the FS700 can also record a variety of 2K and 4K codecs including
4:4:4 and even Raw.

I have used both the C300 and the FS700. This summer I was AC on a pretty big production
working for American Eagle Outfitters. There were 3 video crews using a variety of cameras,
the crew I was AC for was using the C300. If anyone is interested, you can view much of the video shot
at American Eagle Blog. All of the 'Meet the cast' videos as well as the 'Legendary gift' videos were
shot with the C300. Great camera with a great image. But if we ever wanted to do offspeed stuff,
we had to have one of the other crews shoot it with the Epic. The C300 is 'flavor of the month' and
plenty of producers ask for it by name. If you are a rental company, or someone wanting to rent
their gear out on the side, a C300 makes a lot of sense. Next week, I am working on another
shoot using the C300, as I said it's pretty popular.

However, if you are someone who lives 'off the beaten path' you don't have access to rental houses,
and don't give a flip about renting your gear out, and need to choose one or the other to own,
the FS700 is better in my opinion. I run my company myself, and I need to be able to shoot in
a variety of situations, and do a variety of things. One day I may be shooting freelance news for
CNN. The next I may be shooting a pilot for Outdoor Life network. Next, some sit down interviews,
part of a documentary on the Tongass rainforest, some TV commercials, a corporate promo, a
music video, and then wrap things up with some wildlife shooting for my own DVD's and Blu Rays.
The FS700 is really a versatile rig. Slo motion, timelapse (with slow shutter speed), zoom lenses
that use the zoom rocker for when you are shooting news or events, tap screen to focus,
A/B focus pulls where you set the amount of time for the camera to 'rack' focus between two point,
auto focus, face detection, phase detection autofocus with Sony A lenses, auto iris with Sony E
lenses, absolutely great OIS image stabilization with E mount lenses, use Nikon glass with the
Novoflex adapter, use Canon EF glass with the Metabones smart adapter (giving you iris control and
even image stablilization if the Canon lens has that!), even get a near full frame look by
using the Metabones Speed Booster. You can get adapters for cheap old Canon FD lenses,
Minolta lenses, PL mount lenses, pretty much any lens ever made that will cover Super 35mm will
work on this camera. Shoot 2K Raw with continuous high frame rates. Shoot HD or 2K at 4:2:2 or
4:4:4 or shoot 4K compressed with the Odyssey 7Q. Even 4K Raw (including 4K RAW slo motion!)
is possible on the FS700. Dismissing the FS700 as a 'one trick pony' or implying it is only useful for
slo motion, ignores all the other positives it offers.

Again, in my opinion (and it's only one person's opinion) the C300 is an awesome camera. It does
absolutely great 24p and has very nice images. It is 'hot' and lots of production companies want
to rent it. But to me, the FS700 is more versatile. It can just do more things. Yes, you may need
to go to external recorders for the higher quality codecs. But if you do, then, it can SURPASS the
C300 with even higher quality codecs than the C300 offers, and higher resolution too! And you
can't put an external recorder on the C300 and get 120 or 240 FPS or use a speedbooster to get
a FF look. As someone who has used both cameras, it wasn't even that hard of a decision when it
came time for me to buy one.

Gabe Strong · November 28th, 2013, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Watson

... and yet slow mo is number one on my list right now. I've been looking for a good, affordable high-speed capable camera for two years now. Not a Canon fan-boy but do have lots of Canon glass I'd like to not have to replace. I wonder how many Sony FS700 cameras have been bought for their high-speed. It looks like the obvious choice. Since it's my money, I get to choose what features are most important, if nobody agrees with that, well, "Frankly Charlotte..." Maybe Canon SHOULD get on the ball and put the feature in their cameras already before the fad sputters out.

Mark Watson

Mark, you do not have to replace your Canon glass. The FS700 works with Canon glass using
the Metabones smart adapter. Gives you iris control and Image Stabilization from the Canon lenses.

Mark Watson · November 28th, 2013, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabe Strong

Mark, you do not have to replace your Canon glass. The FS700 works with Canon glass using
the Metabones smart adapter. Gives you iris control and Image Stabilization from the Canon lenses.

Gabe,
Thanks for sharing your perspective on this. If Canon was told early on that 120fps was high on the list for the C300 design, yet decided not to include it in that camera and also leave it off the XF-series cameras, then I might wait another year for something new to come out and still end up going with Sony for the high-speed. I was hoping Canon was just taking their time, carefully refining the incorporation of this feature, maybe it's not even on the roadmap for their sub-$30,000 cameras. I tried to rent the Sony from borrowedlenses.com a couple months ago but they don't ship outside the USA, even with a full deposit. Once I find a way to play around with one, I'll be closer to a decision.

Mark Watson

Gabe Strong · November 28th, 2013, 07:08 PM

Mark,

Canon very well may be planning to incorporate high frame rates into a new
camera. It will probably be one sweet camera if it is the C300 with a variety of
frame rates. Or maybe they are not planning to do this, it's a total guessing game.
If they do it, I'd wonder what the price point would be, given the current price
of the C300......probably beyond my means, but other people could easily swing
the cost. One thing is for sure, the longer you wait, the better the tech gets....

November 27th, 2013, 08:46 AM	#16
Mat Thompson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 1,397	Re: Canon C300 - framerates firmware update! "And And And......slow motion should not be first on one's list in buying a camera!" - I think as with any camera that depends on what your doing with it! I also wouldn't have bought the camera if it had of been the first thing on my list. But the point remains that at least a 1080 50p offering on this camera would please a lot of their customers, however it was delivered. Thanks for your response though and if the C300 is really being strangled by its internal hardware I think that is a shame and it will push me away from this camera sooner. Until I see the maths I will remain doudtful they couldn't improve its framerate offerings by playing with bit rates or even using an extrenal recorder. What it does it does well on the whole but this is a frustrating sticking point!

November 28th, 2013, 02:15 AM	#18
Gabe Strong Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 814	Re: Canon C300 - framerates firmware update! The FS700 records with the same 4:2:0 codec that the C100 uses. Yup, the C300 codec is nicer. Like the C100, the FS700 can record the same codec that the C300 uses with an external recorder. Unlike both the C100 AND C300, the FS700 can also record a variety of 2K and 4K codecs including 4:4:4 and even Raw. I have used both the C300 and the FS700. This summer I was AC on a pretty big production working for American Eagle Outfitters. There were 3 video crews using a variety of cameras, the crew I was AC for was using the C300. If anyone is interested, you can view much of the video shot at American Eagle Blog. All of the 'Meet the cast' videos as well as the 'Legendary gift' videos were shot with the C300. Great camera with a great image. But if we ever wanted to do offspeed stuff, we had to have one of the other crews shoot it with the Epic. The C300 is 'flavor of the month' and plenty of producers ask for it by name. If you are a rental company, or someone wanting to rent their gear out on the side, a C300 makes a lot of sense. Next week, I am working on another shoot using the C300, as I said it's pretty popular. However, if you are someone who lives 'off the beaten path' you don't have access to rental houses, and don't give a flip about renting your gear out, and need to choose one or the other to own, the FS700 is better in my opinion. I run my company myself, and I need to be able to shoot in a variety of situations, and do a variety of things. One day I may be shooting freelance news for CNN. The next I may be shooting a pilot for Outdoor Life network. Next, some sit down interviews, part of a documentary on the Tongass rainforest, some TV commercials, a corporate promo, a music video, and then wrap things up with some wildlife shooting for my own DVD's and Blu Rays. The FS700 is really a versatile rig. Slo motion, timelapse (with slow shutter speed), zoom lenses that use the zoom rocker for when you are shooting news or events, tap screen to focus, A/B focus pulls where you set the amount of time for the camera to 'rack' focus between two point, auto focus, face detection, phase detection autofocus with Sony A lenses, auto iris with Sony E lenses, absolutely great OIS image stabilization with E mount lenses, use Nikon glass with the Novoflex adapter, use Canon EF glass with the Metabones smart adapter (giving you iris control and even image stablilization if the Canon lens has that!), even get a near full frame look by using the Metabones Speed Booster. You can get adapters for cheap old Canon FD lenses, Minolta lenses, PL mount lenses, pretty much any lens ever made that will cover Super 35mm will work on this camera. Shoot 2K Raw with continuous high frame rates. Shoot HD or 2K at 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 or shoot 4K compressed with the Odyssey 7Q. Even 4K Raw (including 4K RAW slo motion!) is possible on the FS700. Dismissing the FS700 as a 'one trick pony' or implying it is only useful for slo motion, ignores all the other positives it offers. Again, in my opinion (and it's only one person's opinion) the C300 is an awesome camera. It does absolutely great 24p and has very nice images. It is 'hot' and lots of production companies want to rent it. But to me, the FS700 is more versatile. It can just do more things. Yes, you may need to go to external recorders for the higher quality codecs. But if you do, then, it can SURPASS the C300 with even higher quality codecs than the C300 offers, and higher resolution too! And you can't put an external recorder on the C300 and get 120 or 240 FPS or use a speedbooster to get a FF look. As someone who has used both cameras, it wasn't even that hard of a decision when it came time for me to buy one. Last edited by Gabe Strong; November 28th, 2013 at 03:11 AM.

November 28th, 2013, 07:08 PM	#21
Gabe Strong Major Player Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Juneau, AK Posts: 814	Re: Canon C300 - framerates firmware update! Mark, Canon very well may be planning to incorporate high frame rates into a new camera. It will probably be one sweet camera if it is the C300 with a variety of frame rates. Or maybe they are not planning to do this, it's a total guessing game. If they do it, I'd wonder what the price point would be, given the current price of the C300......probably beyond my means, but other people could easily swing the cost. One thing is for sure, the longer you wait, the better the tech gets....