Considering C300 at DVinfo.net

Roger Pinto · September 11th, 2012, 09:45 AM

Hi all wonderful people ... This is my First Posting on this wonderful forum.

I am considering purchasing C300EF to replace my EX1. I have few queries namely :

- The Lens line from Canon L series vs Zeiss nCP.2's. I am baffled between the choice. Have read much & tried some lens from both lineup side by side. Results were more or less similar but couldn't convince myself to shell out on Zeiss though the build quality is excellent of CP2.
- EVF from Zacuto & other similar brands : confused which one to go for & why ?
- RIGS between Zacuto/Cinevat/Chinese manufacturers
- Electronic Follow Focus esp if i consider Zeiss I need one which can pull 300degrees of focus turns

Matthew Gellert · September 11th, 2012, 01:33 PM

Quote:

The Lens line from Canon L series vs Zeiss nCP.2's. I am baffled between the choice.

I think the canon glass (both regular and L) is great and a bargain, along with lenses like the 11-16 Tokina. I'd buy canon before CP2 and save money. But if your doing tv shows with multiple focus pulls, the CP2 rings are much more like standard cinema.

Quote:

EVF from Zacuto & other similar brands : confused which one to go for & why ?

-If you want a shoulder setup, zacuto is probably your best option. I would add that shooting shoulder with the on-board monitor flipped over is pretty darn good and a lot of people are doing that. ALSO, I love shooting handeld with the camera in the middle of my chest and the on-board eyepiece tilted up like a medium format camera. super comfy and light.

Quote:

RIGS between Zacuto/Cinevat/Chinese manufacturers

I like Shape. I would take chinese over Zacuto. Not loving the zacuto hardware.

Quote:

- Electronic Follow Focus esp if i consider Zeiss I need one which can pull 300degrees of focus turns

No help here. Dont use remote focus.

Derek Reich · September 12th, 2012, 09:20 AM

First, let me say you won't regret it. The C300 is an incredible camera. Regarding the lens choices, I have used Canon L glass (and one non-L) and have had stellar results. I am very happy with the Canon glass, with one caveat. The 'stepped' aperture can potentially ruin a shot if you find you need to make a quick change in the f-stop in the middle of the shot. I'm not sure if the CP lenses for EF mount allow for aperture ring adjustment on the lens, or if you have to use the aperture dial on the C300. If you can make aperture adjustments on the lens with the lens ring, then that would be an asset. Is it worth the significantly higher cost per lens? (aside from IQ differences). That would be up to you to decide. I haven't found the stepped aperture with the EF lenses to be a huge problem, but it has compromised a few shots in the past for me. Canon is also coming out with some 'Cinema' branded lenses, and I wonder if these will have smoother aperture adjustment? If you were to go with the CP lenses, then you might want to consider going with the PL mount, unless you still want access to the EF Canon glass as an option.

Regarding the shoulder mount... personally, I can't understand why people want to do this. I have been shooting professionally for nearly 30 years, and I have never had a camera so fun to shoot hand-held as this camera as is. Why? Because apart from the wonderful ergonomics for hand holding, this camera can be pared down to an incredibly small footprint for shooting in tight spaces by losing the handle if necessary. Let me tell you, shooting this camera with something like the 8-15mm in a really tight spot like the cockpit of an small aircraft or car is a blast. (of course if you lose the handle and LCD both, you have to figure out an audio alternative since you lose the XLR inputs when the LCD comes off... this is also a bit of an issue, but not a deal killer)
Now, having said that, you're probably not going to do much telephoto work with this camera hand-held. I could see where a shoulder mount might be handy there, but honestly, hand held telephoto? That's where your tripod comes in. (although not out of the question, since the 80-200 2.8L IS is spectacular, and allows for very respectable hand-held long lens work hand held due to it's incredible image stabilzation) It's also easy for me to forgo the shoulder mount as I have other cameras dedicated to that kind of work.

Bottom line is, you won't be sorry with the C300, but you will have some minor operational quirks that you will have to adjust to. It's worth it though.

Roger Pinto · September 13th, 2012, 05:14 AM

Got my C300ef Now the quest is on for Lens ...

Zeiss vs Canon L ?
- Are Zeiss Cp2 Glass worth the extra Extra $$$
- Are Zeiss Cp2 sharper crisper better in color then Canon L
- Thinking or say wishing to get 18-25-35-50-85 EF Mount Of cource but yeah CP2 has optional mounts to change EF to PL on the fly if need be
- need real reason to go for CP2 (which i wish to)

Mush Happier ...

Bill Bruner · September 13th, 2012, 07:23 AM

Roger,

When I'm trying to decide between lenses, I find it helpful to see some examples.

Shot with Canon L glass [

14mm

,

35mm

,

16-35mm

,

50mm

,

85mm

]:

Shot with Zeiss CPs [18mm T3.6,

21mm T2.9

,

35mm T2.1

,

50mm T2.1

and 85mm T2.1]:

The grades are very different - but I like the CPs. Canon glass is too clinical for me.

Hope this is helpful,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Brett Sherman · September 13th, 2012, 07:37 AM

I've been shooting with the C300 for a few weeks now. If I hadn't bought it before the C100, I'd be thinking hard about waiting for the C100. I believe the C100 addresses some ergonomic problems the C300 has. That is not to say the C300 is bad ergonomically, I just think the C100 could be better for run and gun shooting.

The biggest problem I have with the C300 is that I find it too heavy to shoot for long periods of time with the LCD/audio unit attached. It also changes the balance of the camera, making it too front heavy. So the result is I shot with a VideoMic Pro going into a Y-adapter with my wireless. First, the audio quality of the VideoMic Pro is lacking, secondly I don't have a dial to adjust audio levels. I made a key shortcut, but still it is a lot slower making adjustments and I can't adjust the channels independently.

Also, I don't like the way they positioned the buttons. The ND filter buttons (which I use rarely and never during a take) are in the prime position when they should be relegated to a more out of the way place. I want the buttons I use WHILE filming to be in prime position. I have also numerous times accidentally hit the ND buttons while reaching for the 1-4 buttons, thus ruining my shot. The ND filter buttons are in a much better place in the C100.

Also, since I don't shoot with the monitor attached, I can't take the unit off my eye. For overhead shots, I just aim and pray. The C100 always has a monitor attached when you need it. It seems like the viewfinder might be lacking. So the ideal setup with the C100 might be a flipable loupe attached to the LCD.

The codec of the C100 is the real rub. That's what makes the getting the C300 worthwhile. But if you can live with AVCHD...

Jim Martin · September 13th, 2012, 12:01 PM

Roger-
If you are thinking about the CP2s, don't forget to take a look at the new Canon CPs....the 24 & 50mm are shipping and the 85mm starts shipping by the end of this month....and they are really nice and super speed fast ...24mm 1.5, 50mm 1.3, 85mm 1.3........

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

Eric Emerick · September 13th, 2012, 08:42 PM

Bill, thanks so much for posting those 2 clips, exactly what I was looking for. That's a really big difference in image, like having 2 different cameras! And I agree with your "clinical" assessment, but I can see where both looks would be useful. Now if I could see some Canon prime cinema's footage I'll have some real info to help with my decision.

Roger Pinto · September 13th, 2012, 11:45 PM

I believe that CP2 would be better in terms of Bokeah etc simply cox of Zeiss 14Blade vs 11Blade of Canon Cinema Lens... More over CP2 would be long term investment simply because of the interchangeable mounts EF-PL-Nikies vs Canon only EF ...

50-85 T2.1 ... On its way !

Still debating 18mm APH size lens ???

Since Zeiss doesn't support Screw in filters so i need to go for 4x4 filters for protection & other speciality use.

Which one & which brand ?

Soft Focus or UV or etc etc... Help appreciated !!!

What additional benefits should user expect if they were to use CD NanoDrive with C300 at Higher ratio rates. instead of 50mbps we record at 440mbps though still locked at 8bits

David A. Fisher · September 16th, 2012, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pinto

Since Zeiss doesn't support Screw in filters so i need to go for 4x4 filters for protection & other speciality use.

Which one & which brand ?

Soft Focus or UV or etc etc... Help appreciated !!!

Zeiss ZE and ZF line is the exact same glass as in the CP.2 line, just non-homogeneous housings. They support screw on filters and are often $2k less in cost.

Alister Chapman · September 17th, 2012, 01:38 AM

Roger the NanoFlash only goes up to 280Mb/s and that's overkill IMHO. If you were to use a NanoFlash at 100Mb/s you would see slightly reduced artefacts in the recorded image, mostly a reduction of mosquito and quantisation noise. In every day use you would probably struggle to see any obvious improvement, but when you start doing any heavy grading work you would most likely see a reduction in banding and noise in the 100Mb/s footage compared to the 50Mb/s footage. The majority of banding seen in graded footage from cameras with low bit rate codecs tends to come from compression artefacts and noise rather than lack of bits.

Jim Martin · September 17th, 2012, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roger Pinto

Since Zeiss doesn't support Screw in filters so i need to go for 4x4 filters for protection & other speciality use.

Which one & which brand ?

Soft Focus or UV or etc etc... Help appreciated !!!

Don't go with a 4 x 4 matte box...you'll likely run into vignetting on the wide lenses. Go with a 4x5.650 Panavision size matte box....like the Arri MMB-1 or 2 or go with the Chrosziel 450W (my fav w/ 2 rotating trays) for your light weight solution.

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

Roger Pinto · September 17th, 2012, 11:33 AM

Sure I might have been wrong with 440mbps on NanoFlashDrive. Sure am thinking into investing into one provided it gives me a viewable/noticeable difference !!!

As for Chrosziel 450W I will look around for the same. BUT when it says 16mm I feel confused with it ... isint the c300 a Super35mm senson hence the viewable area ?

I somehow couldnt find any screwable filter even though at 2000$ for my Zeiss CP2 primes !!!

September 11th, 2012, 09:45 AM	#1
Roger Pinto Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: India Posts: 98	Considering C300 Hi all wonderful people ... This is my First Posting on this wonderful forum. I am considering purchasing C300EF to replace my EX1. I have few queries namely : - The Lens line from Canon L series vs Zeiss nCP.2's. I am baffled between the choice. Have read much & tried some lens from both lineup side by side. Results were more or less similar but couldn't convince myself to shell out on Zeiss though the build quality is excellent of CP2. - EVF from Zacuto & other similar brands : confused which one to go for & why ? - RIGS between Zacuto/Cinevat/Chinese manufacturers - Electronic Follow Focus esp if i consider Zeiss I need one which can pull 300degrees of focus turns

September 12th, 2012, 09:20 AM	#3
Derek Reich Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Washoe Valley, NV Posts: 304	Re: Considering C300 First, let me say you won't regret it. The C300 is an incredible camera. Regarding the lens choices, I have used Canon L glass (and one non-L) and have had stellar results. I am very happy with the Canon glass, with one caveat. The 'stepped' aperture can potentially ruin a shot if you find you need to make a quick change in the f-stop in the middle of the shot. I'm not sure if the CP lenses for EF mount allow for aperture ring adjustment on the lens, or if you have to use the aperture dial on the C300. If you can make aperture adjustments on the lens with the lens ring, then that would be an asset. Is it worth the significantly higher cost per lens? (aside from IQ differences). That would be up to you to decide. I haven't found the stepped aperture with the EF lenses to be a huge problem, but it has compromised a few shots in the past for me. Canon is also coming out with some 'Cinema' branded lenses, and I wonder if these will have smoother aperture adjustment? If you were to go with the CP lenses, then you might want to consider going with the PL mount, unless you still want access to the EF Canon glass as an option. Regarding the shoulder mount... personally, I can't understand why people want to do this. I have been shooting professionally for nearly 30 years, and I have never had a camera so fun to shoot hand-held as this camera as is. Why? Because apart from the wonderful ergonomics for hand holding, this camera can be pared down to an incredibly small footprint for shooting in tight spaces by losing the handle if necessary. Let me tell you, shooting this camera with something like the 8-15mm in a really tight spot like the cockpit of an small aircraft or car is a blast. (of course if you lose the handle and LCD both, you have to figure out an audio alternative since you lose the XLR inputs when the LCD comes off... this is also a bit of an issue, but not a deal killer) Now, having said that, you're probably not going to do much telephoto work with this camera hand-held. I could see where a shoulder mount might be handy there, but honestly, hand held telephoto? That's where your tripod comes in. (although not out of the question, since the 80-200 2.8L IS is spectacular, and allows for very respectable hand-held long lens work hand held due to it's incredible image stabilzation) It's also easy for me to forgo the shoulder mount as I have other cameras dedicated to that kind of work. Bottom line is, you won't be sorry with the C300, but you will have some minor operational quirks that you will have to adjust to. It's worth it though. __________________ www.zooprax.com

September 13th, 2012, 05:14 AM	#4
Roger Pinto Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: India Posts: 98	Re: Considering C300 Got my C300ef Now the quest is on for Lens ... Zeiss vs Canon L ? - Are Zeiss Cp2 Glass worth the extra Extra $$$ - Are Zeiss Cp2 sharper crisper better in color then Canon L - Thinking or say wishing to get 18-25-35-50-85 EF Mount Of cource but yeah CP2 has optional mounts to change EF to PL on the fly if need be - need real reason to go for CP2 (which i wish to) Mush Happier ...

September 13th, 2012, 07:23 AM	#5
Bill Bruner Major Player Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Sunny California Posts: 513	Re: Considering C300 Roger, When I'm trying to decide between lenses, I find it helpful to see some examples. Shot with Canon L glass [ 14mm 14mm , 35mm 35mm , 16-35mm 16-35mm , 50mm 50mm , 85mm 85mm ]: Hustle on Vimeo Shot with Zeiss CPs [18mm T3.6, 21mm T2.9 21mm T2.9 , 35mm T2.1 35mm T2.1 , 50mm T2.1 50mm T2.1 and 85mm T2.1]: Canon C300 Test on Vimeo The grades are very different - but I like the CPs. Canon glass is too clinical for me. Hope this is helpful, Bill Hybrid Camera Revolution

September 13th, 2012, 07:37 AM	#6
Brett Sherman Major Player Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mount Rainier, MD Posts: 428	Re: Considering C300 I've been shooting with the C300 for a few weeks now. If I hadn't bought it before the C100, I'd be thinking hard about waiting for the C100. I believe the C100 addresses some ergonomic problems the C300 has. That is not to say the C300 is bad ergonomically, I just think the C100 could be better for run and gun shooting. The biggest problem I have with the C300 is that I find it too heavy to shoot for long periods of time with the LCD/audio unit attached. It also changes the balance of the camera, making it too front heavy. So the result is I shot with a VideoMic Pro going into a Y-adapter with my wireless. First, the audio quality of the VideoMic Pro is lacking, secondly I don't have a dial to adjust audio levels. I made a key shortcut, but still it is a lot slower making adjustments and I can't adjust the channels independently. Also, I don't like the way they positioned the buttons. The ND filter buttons (which I use rarely and never during a take) are in the prime position when they should be relegated to a more out of the way place. I want the buttons I use WHILE filming to be in prime position. I have also numerous times accidentally hit the ND buttons while reaching for the 1-4 buttons, thus ruining my shot. The ND filter buttons are in a much better place in the C100. Also, since I don't shoot with the monitor attached, I can't take the unit off my eye. For overhead shots, I just aim and pray. The C100 always has a monitor attached when you need it. It seems like the viewfinder might be lacking. So the ideal setup with the C100 might be a flipable loupe attached to the LCD. The codec of the C100 is the real rub. That's what makes the getting the C300 worthwhile. But if you can live with AVCHD...

September 13th, 2012, 12:01 PM	#7
Jim Martin Major Player Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Burbank, CA 91502 Posts: 949	Re: Considering C300 Roger- If you are thinking about the CP2s, don't forget to take a look at the new Canon CPs....the 24 & 50mm are shipping and the 85mm starts shipping by the end of this month....and they are really nice and super speed fast ...24mm 1.5, 50mm 1.3, 85mm 1.3........ Jim Martin Filmtools.com

September 13th, 2012, 08:42 PM	#8
Eric Emerick Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Melbourne, FL Posts: 171	Re: Considering C300 Bill, thanks so much for posting those 2 clips, exactly what I was looking for. That's a really big difference in image, like having 2 different cameras! And I agree with your "clinical" assessment, but I can see where both looks would be useful. Now if I could see some Canon prime cinema's footage I'll have some real info to help with my decision. __________________ esquared

September 13th, 2012, 11:45 PM	#9
Roger Pinto Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: India Posts: 98	I believe that CP2 would be better in terms of Bokeah etc simply cox of Zeiss 14Blade vs 11Blade of Canon Cinema Lens... More over CP2 would be long term investment simply because of the interchangeable mounts EF-PL-Nikies vs Canon only EF ... 50-85 T2.1 ... On its way ! Still debating 18mm APH size lens ??? Since Zeiss doesn't support Screw in filters so i need to go for 4x4 filters for protection & other speciality use. Which one & which brand ? Soft Focus or UV or etc etc... Help appreciated !!! What additional benefits should user expect if they were to use CD NanoDrive with C300 at Higher ratio rates. instead of 50mbps we record at 440mbps though still locked at 8bits

September 17th, 2012, 01:38 AM	#11
Alister Chapman Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Bracknell, Berkshire, UK Posts: 4,957	Re: Considering C300 Roger the NanoFlash only goes up to 280Mb/s and that's overkill IMHO. If you were to use a NanoFlash at 100Mb/s you would see slightly reduced artefacts in the recorded image, mostly a reduction of mosquito and quantisation noise. In every day use you would probably struggle to see any obvious improvement, but when you start doing any heavy grading work you would most likely see a reduction in banding and noise in the 100Mb/s footage compared to the 50Mb/s footage. The majority of banding seen in graded footage from cameras with low bit rate codecs tends to come from compression artefacts and noise rather than lack of bits. __________________ Alister Chapman, Film-Maker/Stormchaser http://www.xdcam-user.com/alisters-blog/ My XDCAM site and blog. http://www.hurricane-rig.com

September 17th, 2012, 11:33 AM	#13
Roger Pinto Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: India Posts: 98	Re: Considering C300 Sure I might have been wrong with 440mbps on NanoFlashDrive. Sure am thinking into investing into one provided it gives me a viewable/noticeable difference !!! As for Chrosziel 450W I will look around for the same. BUT when it says 16mm I feel confused with it ... isint the c300 a Super35mm senson hence the viewable area ? I somehow couldnt find any screwable filter even though at 2000$ for my Zeiss CP2 primes !!!