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#76 |
Space Hipster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,596
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Re: Canon EOS C100
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#77 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bethel, VT
Posts: 824
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Re: Canon EOS C100
Quote:
The one thing that's really obvious from the behind the scenes is that they didn't consider the EVF to be quite up to par, as they had a Zacuto gaffer taped to the LCD. A first rate VF is pretty important for the one person/doc market they say C100 is aimed at. The push button AF and exposure could be pretty cool, in a pinch, for the one take action sports we do a lot of, but a great VF is more so. The C300 is looking more and more like the best option here. |
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#78 | ||
Space Hipster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 1,596
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Re: Canon EOS C100
Quote:
Quote:
If you need 1080/60P, neither camera is for you. Perhaps the FS100/700? |
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#79 |
Major Player
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 273
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Re: Canon EOS C100
The film was shot in Wide DR Gamma, which adds range into blacks and then the blacks were delibrately crushed by the director who wanted it to look like a 5d, so it did. This test shows nothing except that Canon marketing has no idea of what consumers want to see and what directors did to their camera during shooting,
Last edited by Philip Lipetz; September 11th, 2012 at 04:03 AM. |
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#80 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,853
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Re: Canon EOS C100
OK, I've got an hour while I render out a wedding video - don't normally do them but I got asked - so there you go!
Here are my personal concerns when I watched that first official Canon C100 video. OK, the story was very crass/naff but we can all see beyond that. It was designed to be a film that gave many locations, activities and opportunities to show off the strengths of the C100, right? Well, that's why I was so disappointed! 1. Heavy grading and lots of quick shot cuts, almost deliberate slow pans/slight movements - to kill detail - they trying to hide something? Certainly, I saw some blown out highlights (faces/planes etc.). We all know it's impossible to fully judge quality on a Vimeo encoded 720p viewed on the web - but web viewing is how most of my clients view my work and I have seen stunning C300 footage via this medium. 2. Very DSLR look with crushed blacks - I can imagine someone could produce a similar looking video with a Canon DSLR like a 5DMkIII (albeit lacking some sharpness in a few of the plane etc. shots). We now know he did this look deliberately....seems many people like the look (and Philip Bloom liked it on Vimeo...) so maybe it's just me. Seems to me, you'd need to convince DSLR shooters that this is a big step up from "that look", not just a very expensive way of producing more of same? But what do I know! Canon marketing and the DoP must have had a reason for this approach but it eludes me. 3. As mentioned, there is a quick timelapse or two in there, where we all know it was done in post, not camera! Or maybe we really are getting more frame rate options, and especially the much needed 720p50/60 for slo mo etc. (which is a major oversight in the currently announced specs and will kill this camera for some, probably many, of its intended target buyers). 4. Sound syncing (and sound in general) was awful in some parts, e.g. footsteps - I'm amazed that got past the approval stage for worldwide launch of such an important product for Canon. After all, isn't one of the benefits of the C100 over DSLRs supposed to be the provision of professional XLR capture and sound controls etc? 5. Much more importantly, many times the focus was not "nailed" - I saw quite a few focus errors. Now is that because the fixed EVF and LCD (and focussing tools provided, peaking and expanded focus) are not up to the task? As already mentioned, in the "behind the scenes" video you can see them using a makeshift tape hood for the LCD, and sometimes a Zacutto viewer (or similar) gaffer taped to the LCD (Note to makers of those things - maybe you've got a market opportunity here...). This worries me as it does really tend to imply that the non-adjustable EVF and perhaps that LCD are weak areas for nailing focus - not good for a sole operator like me/many others that the camera is targeted at. Now some positives (which come almost entirely from the behind the scenes video) 1. This is (as I hoped) going to be a documentary/run-n-gun camera well suited to my personal needs. Small footprint, light, highly configureable, e.g. in stripped down format for steadicam work, tight space work, should (on paper) be excellent in low light work (it's blummin dim in some of the factories I film in!) etc. etc. 2. Impression I got was that the camera is as rugged as my 7D from the environments that were showcased - good news for the work I do! Saw lots of scenarios where I'd struggle with my EX3. I'm still hoping C100 plus external recorder = C300 look at a price I can afford. I cannot justify a C300 price tag so I'm not cancelling my pre-order just yet - but I hope to see more informative video(s) soon. Obviously, the above are my own opinions based on this first C100 demo film and I hope I'm proved wrong on some of my points as more video material becomes available. I'd be very interested to read what others think. EDIT: I also just found this video from IBC on YouTube. Now my German's not what it used to be... but there are some interesting menu operation etc. shots of the C100 as he describes its various functions:
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Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production Last edited by Andy Wilkinson; September 11th, 2012 at 06:28 AM. |
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#81 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 9,510
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Re: Canon EOS C100
I found the official sample video a bit ehm... weird, look at 01:25 and again at 04:26 in the background, there's something strange going on with all verticle lines which looks like aliasing. I also noticed the very heavy grading in the first part of the image and several out of focus stuff, and there seem to be some gopro footage trown in as well. That sample video would not make me running to the stores to get one.
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#82 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Norwich, Norfolk, UK
Posts: 3,531
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Re: Canon EOS C100
I had read that the C100 is 15% smaller than the C300 but hadn't quite realised how much smaller it is because unless Dieter Kuepperbusch (Product Intelligence Consultant) has hands like shovels it really is a lot smaller than the C300. Like a 60D compared to the 5D2 or 5D3 rather than a 7D.
The lens is the newish 24mm F/2.8 with IS which is an EF lens but as it is the same price as the 17-55mm F/2.8 IS EF-S lens would not be my first choice of a lens for the C100. The menu looks the same as the C300 which is the same as the XF105/305 series. |
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#83 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,853
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Re: Canon EOS C100
Another IBC Video of the C100, this time mostly in English and with the C100 sporting an aftermarket finder (Zacutto?) attached - without gaffer tape - plus a brace.
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Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production |
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#84 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 240
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Re: Canon EOS C100
Quote:
I am only guessing but I think people either like that look or know already it's a bit more flexible than just that look, if you know what I mean (people would expect the same latitude or more presumably, without looking at stats). We wouldn't assume it's worse than a DSLR, would we? I mean, I dunno. Maybe I'm too optimistic. Plenty of people never touched the likes of XFs and so on, is all I'm saying. So, for them the upgrade from their 7D is more obvious. It's crisper than APSC 1080, that's for sure, and handles quick movement and hand holding miles better (and focus; it's not a focus sort of film really). But, yeah, not that great a film. Canon are weird like that though too, let's not forget. They disowned the best C300 demo of the lot for its irreverent tone (which they presumably paid for). Noa's observation is interesting. Nothing like that happens anywhere else, even in the same scene from a different set up. I'm going to assume they've done something to the shot or screwed up somehow. Not sure how though; zoomed it in? Shot at the wrong format? A strange effect. |
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#85 |
Major Player
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Burbank, CA 91502
Posts: 949
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Re: Canon EOS C100
Andy-
I understand your concerns, but as I've told Philip, we really don't know how much Canon-Europe was involved and certainly, Canon USA was not. I'm good friends with the key Canon people that would be involved with any promo video being shot here with the C100 and I have some calls into them to try and clear some things up. Philip did discover that the Vimeo upload was bad so that just re-affirms what I always say....you can't really judge videos posted on the internet, you need to properly view the footage on a good monitor. That being said, I really believe that this camera, using the HDMI out to a recorder is going to be the same as a C300.....same "magic" chip, log, etc. Most of all, let's take a breath and have some patience..... Jim Martin Filmtools.com |
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#86 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,853
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Re: Canon EOS C100
Thanks Jim. I'm hanging on in there with the preorder (with CVP here in the UK - If I was in the USA you'd get the order for sure).
I REALLY want this to be my next camera. It hits so many of the right buttons on my personal wish list for ergonomics, build quality, C300 magic chip etc. (as I explained in detail on my website) so this official launch video came as a bit of a shock. I'm a scientist/engineer by previous career so I'll revert to type and "await more data" before making any firm conclusions!
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Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production |
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#87 |
Major Player
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Burbank, CA 91502
Posts: 949
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Re: Canon EOS C100
Yes....it's getting late over there so go out, get a bite "und Bier"
Jim Martin Filmtools.com |
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#88 |
Inner Circle
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cambridge UK
Posts: 2,853
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Re: Canon EOS C100
You read my mind - just walking out to the pub now!
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Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production |
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#89 | |
Major Player
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bethel, VT
Posts: 824
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Re: Canon EOS C100
Quote:
Of course we all know there's no 60p on either. But as a shop that's been shooting with Canons for years, has sets of L glass and is very integrated with the Canon systems and look, we're very interested in the new C series as new cameras. Obviously the cost of the C100 is attractive compared to the C300. As a director who does a lot of docs, narrative and sports, the all in one nature of the C100 is nice. I was just making an observation about the Zacuto gaffer taped to the screen and that a quality VF was important for the targeted market. I'm allowed right? I won't get into the FS100/700 thing other than to say we have an FS100 and I don't see the 60p of that camera as an ideal match for the C300 or C100 images which is why I made the comment. |
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#90 |
Major Player
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 243
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Re: Canon EOS C100
Excuse my ignorance, but why is 60p so important for slow mo? And are people really using slow mo that much that it's a make or break deal for a camera? I'm really excited about this release as I am looking to upgrade from my XHA1s. I have been hesitant to buy anything because the technology is changing so fast and finally, they came out with the c300 but it was way out of my budget. I always liked the look of DSLR video but was never quite sold on the idea of shooting on a still camera because of all the extra stuff you need for them to work like a proper video camera. This thing would be killer if the EVF wasn't fixed. They might as well have not put one on there at all.
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