C300 Discussion

[Heath McKnight]

Off-topic: Mark, I hear ya on shooting "flat," and color correcting in post, but I learned from DPs who were paranoid about their stuff being altered too much, so I do 95% of my looks in camera, then touch it up in post. But more and more, I'm going your route.

Also, I love local camera dealers vs. big box shops; I can get all the info I need, and then some! Which leads me to this question: does RED allow their cameras to be sold by dealers? Or is it all direct sales.

And to tie this to the C300, I'm curious if dealers will sell it, or if Canon will just go straight to Panavision and rental houses?

Heath

[Mark David Williams]

Originally Posted by Dylan Couper

There's a saying about the carpenter who blames his tools... are you familiar with it?

But I'm not blaming my tools and if I add tools to my toolbox they will be tools that I can use to properly do the job.

BRIAN

Of course you change your mind when grading only a fool would stick religiously to a grade. When a film is being shot that is a different film to what ends up on the screen The edit the score even the emotion of it can change. Once edited your film can take on a different meaning and the grade can look better a different way. Changing my mind was a flippant remark I should have said go with the film as a whole as it develops as for having a vision thats great as a start and hopefully that vision will end up on screen but the vision can be improved on and it can change

[Mark David Williams]

Thanks Heath. I haven't actually come across to many DP's who don't want the look changed or at least that have said that to me.

[Heath McKnight]

I just wrote a long rant about cameras in the Scarlet (re-re-re-etc.) announcement thread today, but to sum it up... it isn't your camera, it's your talent. I've seen plenty of movies that I thought were shot on 35mm, but were done on the XL1 with a 35mm lens and adaptor. See: 28 Days Later... Audiences are sophisticated, but with the right talent behind the camera, a great gaffer and crew, plus excellent editing, no one will know the difference. An audiences is also savvy enough to know when a story is bad, though, so no amount of RED shooting can fix that.

Footage from the Canon 5D Mk II made cameos in Iron Man 2, Captain America, The Avengers and others. (Not the iPhone, which the DP of Avengers said he was misquoted.) Didn't House shoot an entire ep with the 5D Mk II?

heath

[Allan Barnwell]

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

Off-topic: Mark, I hear ya on shooting "flat," and color correcting in post, but I learned from DPs who were paranoid about their stuff being altered too much, so I do 95% of my looks in camera, then touch it up in post. But more and more, I'm going your route.

Also, I love local camera dealers vs. big box shops; I can get all the info I need, and then some! Which leads me to this question: does RED allow their cameras to be sold by dealers? Or is it all direct sales.

And to tie this to the C300, I'm curious if dealers will sell it, or if Canon will just go straight to Panavision and rental houses?

Heath

After my last post - I got an answer from Canon about dealers. The dealer channel for the C300 is not yet established. It will be something new, and dealers will be selected and announced in January.

As for RED, despite dealers like myself making efforts to get RED to see the added value of using a dealer channel, they have stuck to direct sales thus far. They make no special considerations for rental houses either. We are both. Strange..

Allan Barnwell
Omega Broadcast Group - Professional Video Sales, Rental & Services

[Heath McKnight]

Thanks for the info on this, Allan. Interesting what Canon is planning, and too bad about RED.

heath

[Mark David Williams]

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

I just wrote a long rant about cameras in the Scarlet (re-re-re-etc.) announcement thread today, but to sum it up... it isn't your camera, it's your talent. I've seen plenty of movies that I thought were shot on 35mm, but were done on the XL1 with a 35mm lens and adaptor. See: 28 Days Later... Audiences are sophisticated, but with the right talent behind the camera, a great gaffer and crew, plus excellent editing, no one will know the difference. An audiences is also savvy enough to know when a story is bad, though, so no amount of RED shooting can fix that.

Footage from the Canon 5D Mk II made cameos in Iron Man 2, Captain America, The Avengers and others. (Not the iPhone, which the DP of Avengers said he was misquoted.) Didn't House shoot an entire ep with the 5D Mk II?

heath

Yes I have seen films like this too The DSLRs can give a great film look until you look closely at the footage that is in some way compromised. I think the zacuto shootout proved beyond all doubt the shortcomings. Footage can often look great in a small box on the web. Not so good blown up on a cinema screen Lets face it if an XL1 can really shoot like film and look as good on a cinema screen then forget the Alexa or F3 bring the XL1 back. So why haven't they. Watching Mobious today shot on the C300 You can clearly see its a film look and in my opinion speaks I'm a film shot by professionals because of the way I look. If I want a look like the C300 I need a camera like that especially for skin tones and highlights where the lessor cameras mean you have to be careful. The C300 Looks like the camera everyone will buy because they want the look they know their audiences will buy into as professional I saw some AF100 footage shot in venice that was spectacular but it was venice where the bright sun and the use of its ND filters worked in its favour. In the right circumstances with the right workaround many cameras can work splendidly. However I want a camera that will give me the look I want when I want how I want.

Personally I really dont want to go back to buying an EX1 and using the Letus combo now. If thats my fate then I am resigned to it but please dont make me feel like I dont know what I'm talking about Because I know about workarounds and how they can disrupt a shoot lose time lose shots and not look as good.I know that when time is running out and you need those shots and setting up or cutting out lights to fit in with the cameras short comings can be a loss. If I go on a seven week shoot with the Letus combo and the Letus breaks down I and the cast and crew are stuffed. Would I should I take that risk? NO Maybe on a short film I can mess about.

Bottom line TOOLS TOOLBOX make sure you have the right tolls to do the right job IE reliability versatility and the best you can get to give a professional look in all circumstances. And you know things have changed so much Only a few years ago the Letus was grounbreaking The tools are now much improved and that means now we could compete with the big boys if only we could afford the damn things.

I'm sorta wondering now about the Scarlet. £10500 all in but with potential problems with the camera reliabilty Probably an idea to wait on that one.

[Heath McKnight]

You gotta do what's right for your film, but you can also run into the biggest issue of all: the producer. He or she may stop us from using a RED, because it doesn't make financial sense. But no great camera in the world, like an F65, will look good if you don't have the right crew behind it. I can't tell you how many people I know (and I was one of them) who thought a better camera meant better footage.

But I'll stop right there, because we are getting way off topic.

heath

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Mark David Williams

Of course you change your mind when grading only a fool would stick religiously to a grade. When a film is being shot that is a different film to what ends up on the screen The edit the score even the emotion of it can change. Once edited your film can take on a different meaning and the grade can look better a different way. Changing my mind was a flippant remark I should have said go with the film as a whole as it develops as for having a vision thats great as a start and hopefully that vision will end up on screen but the vision can be improved on and it can change

Things do change, although I'm not sure that a feature film usually takes on an overall different meaning, more a voyage of discovery about what's within it. All these changes can depend on you having time to make them and when you've got a tight schedule you're not in the same position as when you're doing everything for yourself.

[Heath McKnight]

Most directors and DPs know what look they're going for during pre-production, and some DPs have it in their contract that they color time (correct) the final, otherwise they'll lose that look they developed. My DPs have it in their contracts whenever I do a film, and I'm okay with that.

But we're getting way off topic here from the C300.

heath

[Mark David Williams]

Brian. Do you insist on colour correcting the films you DP or do you attend the grading but leave it to the director with words of advice etc or do you mostly shoot with the look already adjusted in camera I appreciate every film is different but when you get the chance what is your preferred method.

[Daniel Browning]

Wow, even the HD-SDI is limited to 8 bits:

"The serial representation of the uncompressed 4:2:2 component set is structured from the parallel 8-bit component set and is fed to the camera's HD SDI interface allowing parallel outboard recording to be implemented if desired."

Canon DLC: Cinema EOS Frequently Asked Questions

[Mark David Williams]

eek that's torn it!

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Mark David Williams

Brian. Do you insist on colour correcting the films you DP or do you attend the grading but leave it to the director with words of advice etc or do you mostly shoot with the look already adjusted in camera I appreciate every film is different but when you get the chance what is your preferred method.

It depends on the production, I've done it both ways.

It mightn't even be the director supervising the grading, it could be the editor.

[Mark David Williams]

Wow the editor grades the film sometimes.

I think if it was me I'd listen to the post house if ever I could afford one or lucky enough to get proper financing and let them show me various grades and ideas and then make a choice as the director. Always open to ideas but I would always want the final say on that.