C300 Discussion

[Don Miller]

ISO 20,000 sounds interesting

[Jon Fairhurst]

The 8-bit capture and limited frame rates leave me scratching my head. It could be a nice cam for TV production that has a straight-ahead style. It's definitely not made for pushing creative limits.

The new EF-mount Cine primes look nice.

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

And RED just announced the Scarlet with 4K recording, RAW, 35mm sensor at 10.000 dollars.

[Jacques Mersereau]

Game changer? Hmm. Well, as was coined on another list,
Today (before the announcement) we bitch, moan and flame.
After, we bitch moan and flame.

I guess he knew what was coming from Canon.
and yes, I will now bitch, moan and flame.

Bitch:
No 4K.
No 1080P@60.
No 4:4:4.
No RAW.
No global shutter

Moan:
50mbps?

Flame
$16K?!!! Maybe if the lens is as good as a Cooke or DP Rouge (yeah, right).

THREE YEARS AGO WHEN ASKED, had it been delivered it would have been a game changer.
Now its a flame maker, and believe me, I hope I am SO WRONG that I am flamed to a cinder.
__________________

[Allan Black]

At that price this Canon cinema cam is not really intended for solo shooters, but multiple sales to TV networks and Film outfits.

IMO the price allows Canon dealers to negotiate for sales in various quantities, 4 or 5 or more will easily come at below 10K.

I wonder if RED has room to move like that .. but then Scarlet is intended to sell as one off sales.

Cheers.

[Heath McKnight]

Originally Posted by Justin Molush

I want to see some footage from it before I make any judgements.

I recommend everyone else do the same.

My buddy Jeremiah was there, and he said the footage was fantastic.

heath

[John Vincent]

For that kinda bread, it better look good - then drive you home afterwards.

[Ken Diewert]

I don't know you guys...

I left film school 20 years ago and wanted to buy a broadcast quality camera. The starting point and only option was a Sony betacam (or film). I think it was around 70k. I couldn't even think of buying one. And never mind the cost of the decks to edit tapes (yes... big friggin' coffee table sized tapes).

I just looked at my receipt from June of 2006 for an XLH1 at 12k pus change... and yet I happily paid that. The camera has worked well for over 5 years, and still does what I need for most of my clients...

Then the 5d comes along in june 2009 at 3.5k for the body. 2 1/2 years and 17,000 clips later. I still love this camera. A few drawvbacks and weaknesses... sure but a ground-breaking camera, and nothings perfect.

Yesterday I shot for the first time with a Red Epic... I have a chance over the next couple of weeks to shoot some more... It is freaking awesome. Fortunately I didn't have to buy it... about the price of the Betacam when you add the necessities...

My point... We should be dancing for joy to have so many great, affordable options. This is a phenomenal time to be a film-maker.

If you don't like it, don't buy it... buy or rent something else, and wait for the next round... it'll be here soon enough...

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Mathieu Ghekiere

And RED just announced the Scarlet with 4K recording, RAW, 35mm sensor at 10.000 dollars.

Well, more like $14k in practise for a Canon AI package.

Film & Digital Times has an article, with comments by people who have shot with the C300.

http://www.fdtimes.com/news/canon/canon-c300/

[Paul Curtis]

It's been a while since i've been on dvinfo, about time to get back in.

I'm very surprised by the reaction, how bad it's been. Reading through the info on canons site (very technical and very comprehensive) i think they've done a stellar job, look:

- it's 1080p of *real* pixels. (4 pixels sampled down to one). The F3 aliases and moires, this isn't supposed to
- The 8bit can hold the log information for 12bits, not quite RAW but for a file size/file info tradeoff this is pretty good for 99% of situations
- 50mbs of 4:2:2 is actually pretty good. It does depend on how good their compression is. The sony 35mbs XDCAM compression is really pretty good. So this could be better than that
- The form factor actually reads as being quite balanced and well thought out

I think it could be an excellent work horse camera and a real contender.

The only thing so far i don't like about it is that the mount distance is SLR ranges. Where as the F3/FS100 have the shorter flange distance that allows you to adapt rangefinder and all sorts of weird and wonderful vintage glass (which i have drawers of). So for me that's a downside.

I am a bit of a sony fanboy as i have invested in the NEX stills at the expensive of my canon gear. The FS100/F3 are the obvious choices but would like something in-between them. The FS100 doesn't have log or 10bit out - that's my main issue with that.

But as we decide what to get next, it's a contender.

Obviously i want to see real world original footage from all of the contenders but with the 4k -> 1080p downsample this should produce stellar images.

I have no interest in working at 4k to be honest. Too much overhead. None of the delivery requirements are 4k anyway. Heck features were happily shot with the 720p varicam not so long ago!

cheers
paul

[Andy Wilkinson]

This camera is very interesting to me and I too am surprised that so many have written it off - so soon (less than 24hrs!)

Sure, it's out of my price range (thankfully - so that's one decision I don't have to agonise over!) but what interests me most of all is what video related features MIGHT (and I stress might) see their way into a relatively attainable Canon 5DMkIII when that eventually appears.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Paul Curtis

- The 8bit can hold the log information for 12bits, not quite RAW but for a file size/file info tradeoff this is pretty good for 99% of situations

I don't think that's true. 8 bit is more than enough for general acquisition - but not if you want to get heavily into extensive grading in post. You can squeeze a 12 bit scene into a 8 bit recording (by compressing highlights and lowlights) but it's a one way process - once it's done, it's done. Record the full 12 bit resolution and you have the option of later deciding exactly how you want the transfer charecteristic to be.

- 50mbs of 4:2:2 is actually pretty good. It does depend on how good their compression is. The sony 35mbs XDCAM compression is really pretty good. So this could be better than that

The codec is a full broadcast codec for general television acquisition. That's as defined by the EBU. That is NOT to say it can't be better - and the argument is that for such as feature film work, with the desirability of very extensive post grading you are not talking about "general acquisition".

If you're working on a broadcast show with pretty tight turn round, this codec is fine. Something like RAW is likely to simply add too many delays in the workflow. Ideally, I'd like to have the option of both in a camera like this.

I have no interest in working at 4k to be honest. Too much overhead. None of the delivery requirements are 4k anyway.

Maybe - but a camera may be expected to last a number of years. Who's to say things won't change within the lifetime of the camera? And even if no requirement to deliver in 4k, it gives a lot of room for manoeuvre, especially with such as green screen etc, even post panning/zooming.

At the end of the day it's a question of price/performance. This camera may be just what some people want - but the feeling is it's a lot of money. Equally, others may be happy with the price, but expect to get more for the money. Cue Red comparisons..... :-)

Maybe we need to see what the street price settles at?

[Jim Martin]

Well, well, well....I woke up early....I can't get these pictures out of my head. WOW! The footage looked extremely good on all 4 films we saw. The DPs shot them in ISOs between 500 and 4000! They mostly agreed that the camera's ASA was around 500-600...They all mentioned fondly about how many set ups they did per day and how little light they used. I was surrounded by DPs (ASC,SOC,etc) and all seemed to really like the colors the camera put out. After the screenings & speeches, we moved to 2 large sound stages where Canon had set out the cameras naked or completely rigged out with various manufacturer's accessories. You can shoot footage on a low-lit set with various set ups and, at another station, go through the post process. For the people coming later today & tomorrow, it will be quite a presentation and you won't be disappointed.

As for some of the posters not happy with what they have been reading so far (you'd be happier if you saw the footage projected on a very large screen)....the price is $20K LIST, so the map or street price will be less (we should know that soon). I don't think Canon ever had any intention of putting out a $5000 camera. It was more like taking on the F3 but doing it better(Full camera remote control wirelessly through your iPad)....again, the colors just looked better than the Sony look and I think you can link that to the 4K sensor. As for auto focus, no one shoots a narrative piece with auto focus so I'm not sure why the complaints. This camera, like the 5D,7D, etc, are not for run & gun, sports, etc...its for set up shots.

More thoughts from the people who see it & the shooters who worked with it will come out in the following days. I believe this camera will do quite well....and this is just the first 2!

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

ps- C300 delivery latter part of Jan., C300PL in March

[Jim Martin]

Oh, did happen to say the footage really looked AMAZING!

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

[Dom Stevenson]

You've got to love dvinfo. Martin Scorcese is really excited about
This camera, but
Wedding videographers are 'disappointed'.
Great to see canon throwing their
Hat in the motion picture ring.