C300 Discussion

[Brian Drysdale]

Indeed, I was just going for the most basic Scarlet get you going rig. In practise you need more to keep you going for a working day.

[Mark David Williams]

Could you buy the brain and use an atomos with it?

[Brian Drysdale]

Not really, you need batteries, a LCD and other accessories. How good the live de-bayering on the camera through the HD SDI actually is another issue, when filming you tend to use that more as a video assist rather than for providing the master. Although people can do this, but it's not really getting the best out of the camera.

[Roger Shealy]

Although I'm not delighted with the pricing at this point, my interest is being able to create beautiful images on medium sized Hi-end projection screens and computer screens that can be efficiently handled in post with a reasonably powerful computer. The 5D/7D were a great move forward, but even at streaming qualities they were significantly less appealing than the Alexa and Red on the 2011 Shootout. Some of us would like the ability to broadcast and create superb aesthetics with video camera controls and pro audio to display on less-than-large-cinema screens on a the display formats mentioned without having to own an exotic editing station.

I wonder what portion of DVinfo.net produce work for audiences on a Hi Quality projectsions larger than 12'?


Chris,

That might be an interesting statistic to gather, What % of the forum's participants are produced to display on Large Cinema Screens, Med HD Screens (Hi End Corp/Worship), Std Corporate Screens (i.e. w/ PowerPoint next in line...), Computer Screens?

[Mark David Williams]

Well the Atomos has a screen you can use for framing and also you would plug in your own monitor I imagine it uses a 12 volt battery. Couldn't you buy one off the shelf?

With Modular cameras like this you buy so many peripherals why not go the whole hog.

Of course if the HDSI out isn't up to it then that's an end to it.

[Jon Fairhurst]

I think Canon was right not to spend a lot of money/size/weight/complexity in making the C300 ideal for handheld. It's a CMOS camera with rolling shutter. Even with the 5D2 for corporate demos at work, we went with a track and jib as well as a tripod & slider here at work. (A Steadicam is more flexible, but costs more, and requires more skill.)

On the Bourne movies, they went handheld for a purposefully shaky look, but they didn't do it with CMOS.

Unless this sensor is exceptionally fast, the C300 is not the best choice for handheld, regardless of ergonomics.

[Mike Marriage]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

Unless this sensor is exceptionally fast, the C300 is not the best choice for handheld, regardless of ergonomics.

Jon, I certainly hope it is a lot better than the 5D mk2 (and by all accounts it is). Most high end video CMOS chips are fine for normal handheld work. It's more strobes, whip pans and serious vibration that can cause artifacts.

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Mark David Williams

Well the Atomos has a screen you can use for framing and also you would plug in your own monitor I imagine it uses a 12 volt battery. Couldn't you buy one off the shelf?

With Modular cameras like this you buy so many peripherals why not go the whole hog.

Of course if the HDSI out isn't up to it then that's an end to it.

I wouldn't try doing this until the camera is out and judgements can be made on the quality of the outputs. On RED cameras you use the LCD for accessing menus and other functions, so I suspect using the Atomos screen from the HD SIDI mightn't be the most practical method of working. You'd need more than one battery, the RED cameras are pretty power hungry and they're not cheap.

[Mark David Williams]

So if I decided to go Red I'd probably be best to go for the production pack Is that the one you're going for Brian.

[Brian Drysdale]

I'm not buying, I'll rent or the production company will rent. I might have considered buying the 2/3" Scarlet for documentaries.

[Jim Martin]

A few thoughts after digesting what everyone is posting......
1) Again, I find it a bit fascinating that posters can be so sure, based on the specs, of how bad the picture is with the 8 bits....you can only truly comment on the full potential of the picture if you saw it on the 4K projector at Paramount.....and the fact that ALL of the DPs categorically stated that 8 bit was a non-issue.
2) How can anyone be so sure on the camera's physical layout (monitor location & adjust-ability , VF, etc) and complain about it if you haven't had it in your hands? I think if you did, you would understand it better.
3) as for saying the DPs were on Canon's payroll so they will say only good things is completely wrong. Their reputation is way more important then the very minor amount of money Canon could have paid them. Does one really think that in a forum like Thursday night in front of their peers, they would tow the company line in trade for their reputation?
I know I'm sounding a bit preachy here but all these thoughts and statements do not match up with what I experienced during my 3 days with this camera and being around people who worked with it. Between now and the end of January, Canon is going to be getting these cameras out to the selected dealers for people to touch & feel...I suspect they will also try to arrange screenings of the films for people to judge for themselves.

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

[Jim Martin]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

I think Canon was right not to spend a lot of money/size/weight/complexity in making the C300 ideal for handheld. It's a CMOS camera with rolling shutter. Even with the 5D2 for corporate demos at work, we went with a track and jib as well as a tripod & slider here at work. (A Steadicam is more flexible, but costs more, and requires more skill.)

On the Bourne movies, they went handheld for a purposefully shaky look, but they didn't do it with CMOS.

Unless this sensor is exceptionally fast, the C300 is not the best choice for handheld, regardless of ergonomics.

When asked during the panel discussion on Thursday night, ALL of the DPs said there was absolutely no rolling shutter.

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Mike Marriage

Jon, I certainly hope it is a lot better than the 5D mk2 (and by all accounts it is). Most high end video CMOS chips are fine for normal handheld work. It's more strobes, whip pans and serious vibration that can cause artifacts.

I'm looking forward to finding out the rolling shutter times of this camera as well as the 1D X, the mystery Cinema DSLR, and the next gen 5D, 7D, etc.

BTW, one can test it very accurately with a fast strobe. Shoot video. Trigger a photo flash unit. Find a frame where the flash falls within a frame and another place where you see the start of the strobe on one frame and the end of the strobe on the next. As long as you know the frame rate, you can then calculate the true rolling shutter time, based on line counts.

On the 5D2, it's 25ms, which is 75% of a 30fps frame or 60% of a 24fps frame.

And, yes, the new cam is no doubt faster. The existing 1D4 looks like it has something like 50 or 60% of the rolling shutter time of the 5D2, based on the Zacuto Shootout, Part 3. (I wish that they had strobe tested the cameras to provide the hard numbers.) The 1D X and C300 are almost certain to be faster still.

[Mike Marriage]

Originally Posted by Jim Martin

2) How can anyone be so sure on the camera's physical layout (monitor location & adjust-ability , VF, etc) and complain about it if you haven't had it in your hands? I think if you did, you would understand it better.

Because where the VF is, it requires the entire camera and lens combo to be in front of you which leads to an unwieldy shoulder mount configuration. I have used many other cameras with this configuration and unless the laws of physics have changed, it isn't optimal above a certain weight. A weight this camera will easily exceed in most professional environments.

I suppose if you come to it from only shooting with DSLRs (which many shooters now do) this isn't such a compromise. However, I think that the higher end camera people that this camera is supposedly aimed at will want a traditional shoulder mount configuration as an option. This can be created using third party accessories but IMO a camera at this level should integrate this into the design. This could have been done without detracting from any of the benefits of the current design.

[Jim Martin]

these days, every camera is front heavy...and everyone is using some type of shoulder rig. DSLRs, the Epic, AF100, FS100, Alexa, etc, all are not good as a stand alone shoulder mount thus, we are selling a lot of shoulder mounts.

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com