Something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd...

[Owen Dawe]

Well! A facinating thread. Really enjoying it. I'm not really a technical boffin so much of the specs spoken about here are over my head.

I'm interested in making video that if accepted gets an airing on local tv. Simply put all I hope for is a camera that is large enough to have essential switching of features on the camera body, not buried deep somewhere in a menu. Buttons and switches big enough to use your fingers so as you don't have to carry a sharp pencil to press them. Shoulder mount so you can shoot a vox pop interview at eye height. Heavy enough to mount on a decent tripod so that it doesn't blow over in the first puff of wind and end up in the mud. If it's backward compatable with all the XL accessories we've bought, adapted and made even better.

As to the technical bit, that's up to Canon. Just make us something that's durable, up with the play and user friendly.

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Peer Landa

People are different -- and I probably belong in your "delusional" category: A couple of years ago, just in time for me to put down some money on a ground glass for my XL2, I impulsively sold the camera altogether and bought a new hot 5D2 -- full frame shallow DOF film look has always been my desire.

The 5D does have improvements over an XL2 with a ground glass although with some moire effect, However, always waiting for the next great camera for your project is pretty delusional, you should get on with it. There's nothing wrong with wanting to buy a Scarlet, although what currently comes under that model name seems to be a matter of debate.

The wisdom of selling your current camera would depend on if you're likely to need the camera before you can get the new camera delivered.

There are a number of options currently available and how these new cameras fit in remains to be seen, although I strongly suspect we're looking at cameras that are more expensive than the 5DmkII. If you have one off projects for theatrical screening you can rent a higher spec camera. Large screen projection does tend to show all the flaws, but quite a few successful films have managed it regardless .

[Jon Fairhurst]

Originally Posted by Justin Molush

If somebody can link me to an official price announcement that would be fantastic (still cant click on scarlet on their site)...

I believe that the specs and pricing will be announced on November 3rd.

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

I agree that there is always something around the corner, so one can pathologically wait forever. But with the Canon and RED announcements coming in November, waiting makes a lot of sense right now - unless you've got an immediate paying gig. And in that case, one can always rent.

Yes - absolutely right. And it's true one can obsess over the gear - but this is a thread about a likely new camera, so it's the right place to have technical thoughts and comments about forthcoming announcements. (I wouldn't talk about technical aspects in a thread about technique.)

And yes you can wait forever, there'll always be a new camera round the corner - but we're not talking about forever, just about 5 weeks. If anyone is thinking of an upgrade "sometime soon" (rather than buying for a specific project), then surely it makes a great deal of sense not to buy anything before the announcement? Certainly not if you're thinking of a FS100, AF100 or F3?

[Brian Drysdale]

Indeed, this is a short time scale with a date at the end of it and if you currently have no urgent need to buy one of these cameras for a project, holding off for a month makes sense.

[David Rice]

New camera with EF mount and PL mounts.

Great, if you can afford a camera that is well over $9,000 with accessories. Don't kid yourself, it will be.

For those of us looking for a $5,000-$6,000 camera from Canon with replacement lens, it's gong to be another big appointment.

[Brett Sherman]

In my book it just has to beat the AF100 and FS100 which shouldn't be hard. Both camera's have fatal flaws IMHO. If it's a few thousand more, so be it. I buy cameras to last 3 or 4 years, so I can wait for the right one to come along and pay a little more. I am a little nervous about that prototype picture that has the LCD on the top of the camera, ala FS100. Basically that means you can't shoot above your head or use the thing on a tripod that's taller than you (which is all the time when shooting press conferences or speaking events). I don't know who thought this would be a good idea.

[Buba Kastorski]

Originally Posted by Brett Sherman

I am a little nervous about that prototype picture that has the LCD on the top of the camera, ala FS100

not like on FS100 on scarlet/epic monitor can be detached, but you probably will need a longer cable, which you can buy for as low as $240 :)

[Chris Hurd]

Just a reminder that the topic of this thread is something new from Canon on Nov. 3rd.

I have removed from public view a couple of off-topic posts that were railing about another online community. Please folks, if you want to talk about some other forum site, post it to your own blogs, because that's not what DV Info Net is about. The purpose of DV Info Net is to discuss the creative and technical aspects of digital video -- nothing else.

Sometimes I see other forum sites talking trash about DV Info Net, so I know how it feels and I have resolved to never allow DV Info Net to be used for that same purpose. What happens on other forum sites is not our problem and therefore has no business here. If you're disappointed with the way some other forum sites are operated, then you really should be spending less time with them and more time with DV Info Net. Thanks for understanding,

[David Heath]

Originally Posted by Brett Sherman

In my book it just has to beat the AF100 and FS100 which shouldn't be hard. Both camera's have fatal flaws IMHO. If it's a few thousand more, so be it. I buy cameras to last 3 or 4 years, so ...........

I think "fatal flaws" may be a bit strong, but neither of those are ideal, that's true. The AF100 seems to suffer from "making the best of" a chip which is primarily for still cameras, the FS100 is missing such as HD-SDI and internal NDs.

In both cases, one area which could be greatly improved upon very cheaply is the codec, and the general feeling seems to be that for anything like serious work you want better than AVC-HD, and ideally a fully broadcast approved codec like XDCAM422 or AVC-Intra 100. Hence the big market in buying external recorders, and the extra cost. It's hard not to think that the use of AVC-HD is as much due to Panasonic and Sony protecting their higher end products as engineering/cost reasons, and CF/XDCAM422 in the XF100/300 seems to give weight to that - I see no reason why CF/XDCAM422 in a new Canon camera should add anything to the cost of production versus AVC-HD.

Which could mean that if the camera was to cost a thousand or two more, it's still no more expensive overall than an FS100/AF100 with separate recorder. And that money could go towards more general improvements to the camera. Alternatively, cost the same as the AF100/FS100 - but with inbuilt full quality codec.

Yes, it's early days, we don't yet even know for sure that Nov 3rd will see any new camera from Canon, let alone a direct AF100/FS100 competitor, let alone the details. But as has been said before, the possibility must be realistic enough to make it silly to buy anything in the next few weeks unless you really have to get something NOW.

[Jon Fairhurst]

I'm thinking that this won't be a one cam announcement. There will be a digital cinema cam and some EOS cams announced alongside. All will share some tech, like the DIGIC 5. The cinema cam will support PL and EF, good audio, etc. The EOS cams will improve but still be compromises.

From a marketing POV, this sprinkles Hollywood glitter on the stills line - something Nikon can"t do.

Don't just sell cameras. Sell dreams.

[Jean-Philippe Archibald]

Canon has developped a line of processors derived from the Digic, but specifically aimed at camcorders, the Digic DV. I'm pretty sure we won't see a Digic 5 processor in the upcomming camcorders.

[Jon Fairhurst]

From a quick Google search, the most recent Digic DV press release was about the DV II, released in January of 2007.

Anyway, it doesn't have to be the DIGIC V that is shared to tie the camera lines together for marketing purposes. Most any technology, including the EF mount, could be cited in ads.

It's pretty easy to envision the blockbuster-style TV ads that could be developed. Add an A-list Hollywood spokesperson and your ad campaign writes itself.

FWIW, the most recent EOS mass e-mail was something about "telling the story with HD."

[Jon Fairhurst]

Canon. New York. October 26th. Pixma. EOS....

[Jean-Philippe Archibald]

Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst

From a quick Google search, the most recent Digic DV press release was about the DV II, released in January of 2007.

From the Canon website: Canon U.S.A. : Consumer & Home Office : XF305

The chip in the XF serie is the DiGiC DV III, which I beleive has the logic to encode XDCAM HD 422 at 50 mbits/s. I would not be surprised at all if the newer big chip camcorder as this chips (unless they are 4K, which remains to be seen). After all, the size of the chip is irrelevent from the processor's stand point.