Weird rules for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD at DVinfo.net

Heath McKnight · February 24th, 2006, 08:36 AM

http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/...isc_rules.html

I don't like this rule. As a matter of fact, my anamorphic HDTV (1080i), which I shelled out $1000 for just two years ago, only has component-in, so I will only see half the resolution. BOO!!! And the security features are hurting the consumer, much like what happened with Sony late last year. I don't like theft anymore than anyone else, but I don't like being hurt.

heath

Marco Wagner · February 24th, 2006, 11:01 AM

I wonder if anyone is considering making component to DVI converters/adapters...?

Earl Thurston · February 24th, 2006, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Wagner

I wonder if anyone is considering making component to DVI converters/adapters...?

It won't be that simple. The digital signal will be encrypted, so only a AACS licensed TV will be able to decrypt it; a straight-forward digital-to-analog converter won't work.

And, even if a company wanted to make a converter with AACS decoding, they wouldn't be allowed because converting to analog violates this part of the AACS license agreement.

It's a very ugly situation.

Hans Damkoehler · February 24th, 2006, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

BOO!!!

So, if I've got HDMI am I automatically spared or is this something that has to do with EVERY HDTV produced to date ... I assume not, however, my DirectTV uses that HDMI port so do I now havge to choose between which digitial signal I like more ... ?

Frustrating.

Earl Thurston · February 24th, 2006, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans Damkoehler

So, if I've got HDMI am I automatically spared...?

I believe so. It appears AACS supports a function called ICT (Image Constraint Token), which works in HDMI. Best to do some searching on Google to find out for sure. (Many of these issues are being hammered out as we write, so there's still a lot of confusion.)

Wayne Morellini · February 24th, 2006, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/...isc_rules.html

I don't like this rule. As a matter of fact, my anamorphic HDTV (1080i), which I shelled out $1000 for just two years ago, only has component-in, so I will only see half the resolution. BOO!!! And the security features are hurting the consumer, much like what happened with Sony late last year. I don't like theft anymore than anyone else, but I don't like being hurt.

heath

There are at least two Chinese DVD format alternatives, one called AVS, which I think is now being standardised, though getting the right content on them in English will be interesting.

HDMI, I would Google it to, there has been much changes in security algorithms since HDMI was introduced.

Matt Irwin · February 24th, 2006, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earl Thurston

It won't be that simple. The digital signal will be encrypted, so only a AACS licensed TV will be able to decrypt it; a straight-forward digital-to-analog converter won't work.

And, even if a company wanted to make a converter with AACS decoding, they wouldn't be allowed because converting to analog violates this part of the AACS license agreement.

It's a very ugly situation.

Hmmm...
http://www.engadget.com/2005/07/15/s...lling-on-hdcp/

Zack Birlew · February 24th, 2006, 07:20 PM

Argh! They can't just get rid of component just like that! I bet there'll be adapters in the future but 2013 may be a bit early.

Anyway, this was a decision based on the piracy going on, I understand that. But the pirates are just going to break through the HDMI-only plan just like everything else they've broken through. There will always be thieves and one of the big problems is those file-sharing websites where you can trade anything. If anything there should be some sort of government control over those so they can cut people off from stealing all sorts of media digitally and instead save it for pictures, web videos, and startup rock band songs. What else needs to be traded really?

But this sort of thing is like putting metal detectors in theatres, it's alienating the consumer. Though that eventually may not be a bad idea either if things keep progressing in piracy.

Bob Hart · February 24th, 2006, 08:58 PM

This has the collateral effect of making the consumer upgrade or buy sooner.

We are facing a similar thing with a whole bunch of mobile phones becoming redundent in 2008 over here. When analogue phones were scrapped, we paid for an inferior service.

This cashcow is not going to be stockwhipped. I'll make do with the existing technology and if support for it is prematurely terminated, I'll do without.

Okay, so I am a luddite by nature and only migrated from vinyl audio when I needed a CD-R for the computer. But the suits in the boardrooms better take care. "Less is best" is also becoming fashionable among a younger generation.

Self-sufficiency in entertainment, driven by financial stringencies introduced to the world's collective workforce and the downright societal benefit of communties doing it themselves, may herald a collapse of the vertically integrated entertainment industry as we know it.

It could be interesting times ahead and an opportunity, albeit a limited one for independents.

Globalisation is a two way street which has only been travelled one way yet.

Wayne Morellini · February 25th, 2006, 04:23 AM

Just wait until they have to change the security standard, and make you buy all new equipment again, and they don't have to wait for pirates to crack the old one to do it, either. Pity it is political in nature, so we can't talk about it. Still, I think the, admittedly most likely weak, boycott of equipment supporting this security standard is the only thing we can do, vote with our feet.

Peter Ferling · February 28th, 2006, 09:12 AM

This is why I waited a full year until the HDMI/HDCP interface was included on the sets. I have Sony Bravia 40" LCD, and it has both HDMI and component. So I can use both new and old equipment.

My fear is that tommorrows sets might actually drop the component/composite connections altogether. Very frustrating. I want to upgrade to HD/HDV, and it looks like a complete sweep across the entire pipe-line. Fine. However, I may have to wait it out another 6 months or so, until Vista (one of six flavors) rolls out, and has the HDMI/HDCP hardware onboard (i.e. Nvidia cards that actually support the spec). But with that spec being a moving target...

Heath McKnight · February 28th, 2006, 09:39 AM

I'm a fan of the Westinghouse Digital 1080p sets:

http://westinghousedigital.com/c-7-1080p-monitors.aspx

hwm

Heath McKnight · February 28th, 2006, 09:41 AM

ps-There's now an HD boycott at a site I go to:

http://writersblocklive.com/boycott/

Interesting. A friend of mine equated for me the rules for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD; essentially, if I bought a copy of the new Harry Potter book, my wife would have to buy her own copy. That's basically how these rules are working.

hwm

Joe Carney · February 28th, 2006, 10:32 AM

There is a silver lining to all this copy protection.....

They won't be able to blame pirates when their sales continue to decline.:)

Peter Ferling · February 28th, 2006, 11:34 AM

You know, despite all this keeping-the-honest-person-honest crap, what's gonna stop a pirate from locking off a high-rez cam in front of a studio quality monitor and making a new master? Certainly the quality won't be quite as good as a direct digital transfer, but the effect will be just as damaging.

February 24th, 2006, 08:36 AM	#1
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Weird rules for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD http://blog.scifi.com/tech/archives/...isc_rules.html I don't like this rule. As a matter of fact, my anamorphic HDTV (1080i), which I shelled out $1000 for just two years ago, only has component-in, so I will only see half the resolution. BOO!!! And the security features are hurting the consumer, much like what happened with Sony late last year. I don't like theft anymore than anyone else, but I don't like being hurt. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 24th, 2006, 11:01 AM	#2
Marco Wagner Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Saint Cloud, Florida Posts: 1,043	I wonder if anyone is considering making component to DVI converters/adapters...? __________________ www.facebook.com/projectspecto

February 24th, 2006, 07:20 PM	#8
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	Argh! They can't just get rid of component just like that! I bet there'll be adapters in the future but 2013 may be a bit early. Anyway, this was a decision based on the piracy going on, I understand that. But the pirates are just going to break through the HDMI-only plan just like everything else they've broken through. There will always be thieves and one of the big problems is those file-sharing websites where you can trade anything. If anything there should be some sort of government control over those so they can cut people off from stealing all sorts of media digitally and instead save it for pictures, web videos, and startup rock band songs. What else needs to be traded really? But this sort of thing is like putting metal detectors in theatres, it's alienating the consumer. Though that eventually may not be a bad idea either if things keep progressing in piracy. __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

February 28th, 2006, 09:39 AM	#12
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I'm a fan of the Westinghouse Digital 1080p sets: http://westinghousedigital.com/c-7-1080p-monitors.aspx hwm __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 28th, 2006, 09:41 AM	#13
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	ps-There's now an HD boycott at a site I go to: http://writersblocklive.com/boycott/ Interesting. A friend of mine equated for me the rules for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD; essentially, if I bought a copy of the new Harry Potter book, my wife would have to buy her own copy. That's basically how these rules are working. hwm __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

February 24th, 2006, 08:58 PM	#9
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,477	This has the collateral effect of making the consumer upgrade or buy sooner. We are facing a similar thing with a whole bunch of mobile phones becoming redundent in 2008 over here. When analogue phones were scrapped, we paid for an inferior service. This cashcow is not going to be stockwhipped. I'll make do with the existing technology and if support for it is prematurely terminated, I'll do without. Okay, so I am a luddite by nature and only migrated from vinyl audio when I needed a CD-R for the computer. But the suits in the boardrooms better take care. "Less is best" is also becoming fashionable among a younger generation. Self-sufficiency in entertainment, driven by financial stringencies introduced to the world's collective workforce and the downright societal benefit of communties doing it themselves, may herald a collapse of the vertically integrated entertainment industry as we know it. It could be interesting times ahead and an opportunity, albeit a limited one for independents. Globalisation is a two way street which has only been travelled one way yet.

February 25th, 2006, 04:23 AM	#10
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Just wait until they have to change the security standard, and make you buy all new equipment again, and they don't have to wait for pirates to crack the old one to do it, either. Pity it is political in nature, so we can't talk about it. Still, I think the, admittedly most likely weak, boycott of equipment supporting this security standard is the only thing we can do, vote with our feet.

February 28th, 2006, 09:12 AM	#11
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	This is why I waited a full year until the HDMI/HDCP interface was included on the sets. I have Sony Bravia 40" LCD, and it has both HDMI and component. So I can use both new and old equipment. My fear is that tommorrows sets might actually drop the component/composite connections altogether. Very frustrating. I want to upgrade to HD/HDV, and it looks like a complete sweep across the entire pipe-line. Fine. However, I may have to wait it out another 6 months or so, until Vista (one of six flavors) rolls out, and has the HDMI/HDCP hardware onboard (i.e. Nvidia cards that actually support the spec). But with that spec being a moving target...

February 28th, 2006, 10:32 AM	#14
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	There is a silver lining to all this copy protection..... They won't be able to blame pirates when their sales continue to decline.:)

February 28th, 2006, 11:34 AM	#15
Peter Ferling Trustee Join Date: May 2005 Location: Wyomissing, PA Posts: 1,141 Images: 57	You know, despite all this keeping-the-honest-person-honest crap, what's gonna stop a pirate from locking off a high-rez cam in front of a studio quality monitor and making a new master? Certainly the quality won't be quite as good as a direct digital transfer, but the effect will be just as damaging.