Disney to go with Blu-Ray

Kalunga Lima · September 24th, 2008, 05:08 PM

Has anyone tried the new Delkin external blu-ray drive for mastering blu-ray DVDs.

Digital camera accessories and OEM flash manufacturer - Delkin Devices

Giroud Francois · September 25th, 2008, 12:23 PM

it is probably nothing more than an LG blu-ray drive in an external box.
my problem would be more with the USB connection (e-sata would be better), but it probably works fine.

Richard Alvarez · November 20th, 2008, 01:17 PM

Great article from DiscMakers - explaining the ins and outs of BluRay licensing. For those who don't get the DiscMakers bulletin

DVD vs. Blu-ray

It does a great job explaining where the money goes, as well as where the bottleneck is for BD development.

Harrison Murchison · November 20th, 2008, 10:30 PM

Frankly I'm sick of Blu-ray and AACS.

There really needs to be an Indie level content protection system that would allow say Divx HD discs to be made with appropriate protection.

It's foolish to think that you can design a foolproof system. I think the goal for Indies should be content protection that is affordable and thwarts all but the %20 of hackers that are unstoppable.

Sinking $5 thousand dollars into your first Blu-ray project even before you started pressing discs is just crazy.

Jon Fairhurst · November 25th, 2008, 06:17 PM

I recently completed a project for IEC that includes a BD. (Yes, that's my name in the press release...)

IEC - News releases > nr3608 - IEC International Standard brings energy efficiency to LCD and plasma TVs

Our volumes are low so we duplicate (burn the discs and engrave the labels), rather than replicate (press.) I think this is the right path for most indies.

A good strategy would be to get all of your ducks in a row, so you can pay the license fee and press discs quickly, just in case demand grows. That way you're not stuck with inventory, if sales bomb. If sales take off, the license fee will be a drop in the bucket, compared to the labor cost of burning tons of discs.

BTW, for low volumes, you don't really need copy protection. There's not enough demand for the big-time thieves to get involved, and not much chance that someone who wants your disc will come across somebody willing to make them a copy.

Sure, the situation isn't perfect, but it's workable.

Paul Cascio · December 4th, 2008, 05:52 PM

Everyone here has been so helpful that I thought I'd share this.

As you may know, I had a feature length HD project that I wanted to deliver via Blu-ray, using the Vegas 32-bit option. Unfortunately, no matter what I did, Vegas would crash. The 8-bit renders work. It's only the 32-bit that crahses my system, but the 8-bit renders were too harsh and contrasty.

Out of deperation, I decided to export my timeline to AAF, then import it into Premiere for rendering/burning to Blu-ray.

Well, it worked. Premiere does an awesome 20-25MBPS Blu-ray (vs 15 MBPS for Vegas). However, there were some issues:

1. Transitions all become dissolves. No problem, I can pre-render that part of timeline to AVI before export and eliminate the transition coding. Or, I can add the transitions in Premiere, but I don't want to edit in Premiere.

2. Premiere lied to me. Or perhaps I misunderstood. I thought the render would take about three hours, but the whole process, including the burn was close to 13 hours and that was for just half of my project. I don't mind long renders as long as I can count on them to finish and Premiere did not let me down. Next time, I'll let Premiere work the third shift.

3. I think Vegas generated media also needs to be converted to AVI before the export. BTW, does Vegas create a file for each generated media event, or is it produced on-the-fly? I couldn't find the files.

All in all, this proved to be a good workflow that let me utilize the best of two popular NLEs and produce the high quality Blu-ray result I was looking for.

Douglas Spotted Eagle · December 5th, 2008, 01:08 AM

I'm confused why you're going to Premiere for the encode...Having tested both encoders...The new Adobe Media Encoder is *MUCH* better than it was, but IMO, Vegas encoder, properly set up, does a better job.
That said....
Generated media is generated on the fly, just as the name implies. You have to create a video file before exporting over AAF. Generated media is 4.4.4 media, and you'll likely want at least a 4:2:2 uncompressed to keep masks and so forth clean....

Paul Cascio · December 5th, 2008, 08:00 AM

Thanks Douglas. Vegas was crashing when I rendered using 32-bit and 8-bit was coming out with too much contrast. I would have loved to stay in Vegas, but exorting to Adobe for render provided the only solution I could find.

However, if you have any sugestions that would allow me to render with 32-bit interpolation in Vegas, I'd be thrilled. BTW, I own your Vegas book and it's terrific--very well written and well organzied.

Paulo Teixeira · December 15th, 2008, 05:49 PM

1. What’s the biggest differences?

2. If a documentary was done using either CS2 or CS3, wound it easily migrate to CS4 without any issues at all? Or would it be better to just upgrade Encore for authoring to Blu-Ray?

Paul Kellett · December 17th, 2008, 12:21 PM

Does anyone from pal land have a render template for blu ray.
I need to get it sorted quick and haven't got time to play around and find settings.
Does the template differ according to the format which was recorded, ie 1440x1080/50i, 1920x1080/50i or 720/50p ?

Is one of these formats better than the other if i know i'm going to be producing a blu ray disc ?

What's the better output, mpeg or avc ?

Thanks.
Paul.

John Estcourt · December 17th, 2008, 12:50 PM

sorry Paul I dont, i use sonic dvdit pro hd and it doesnt like the blu ray files I import from vegas so i use sorenson VC1 24p files. they seem pretty good and are 100% blu ray compatable.(only 24p though as 25i is broken for PAL and 25p is non bluray legal), Ive told sorenson but they dont seem to be able to fix it)
I dont think avc is better than Mpeg but you will prob get more onto a disc due to the compression.
FYI mainconcept reference has templates that will work fine for AVC, VC1 and MPEG, Ive tried them out but cant justify the cost of the pro versions just yet.(non pro versions are too restrictive on bit rate for AVC and VC1)
sorry not much help but if your in a hurry Reference will work for you.

David Moody · December 19th, 2008, 04:04 PM

I don't have CS4, but my understanding is that CS4 allows subtitles and pop up menu options that CS3 does not.

That is the reason I am planning on upgrading.

Paul Cronin · December 27th, 2008, 03:01 PM

I edit in Final Cut 6.0.5 and export full size QuickTime 1080p then into Compressor. Out of Compressor I use Mpeg 2 with the BluRay option setting the bit rate 40 max and 30 min and full 1080.

Then I import into Encore CS3 and have been testing settings. Since my footage is 30p (29.97) in FC I choose 29.97i (ugh) in Encore and have been able to burn a disk. It will not be until tomorrow that I can view on a BluRay player. But in Encore preview it is very poor quality. I have been through all the options I can think of with settings.

Question:
What settings are people using out of Encore to achieve high quality BluRay disk?

My burner is the MCE internal for Mac.

Charmaine Anderson · December 30th, 2008, 02:05 PM

Hi folks,

I'm new to blu-ray rendering and just upgraded to Vegas 8.0. What Vegas 8.0 video quality rendering settings are recommended for use with DVD Architect 5.0 to burn onto Blu-ray? I realize that with a Blu-ray disc you probably don't need to compress and can set the quality setting to high, but I've read that the human eye can't perceive more than 95% quality anyway so would it be ok to set it at 95% quality to save on render time and hard drive space?

Also, I'm used to rendering files to DVD architect in .mpg 2 format but Vegas 8 seems to export the Blu-ray files in .m2v format - so I assume .m2v is the right file type for Blu-ray?

For rendering audio for blu-ray from Vegas should I still render as AC3 Dolby stereo?

Also, can you recommend a good Blu-ray disc supplier with decent prices? I've read there are different blu-ray disc types and wonder which one would be readable by most Blu-ray players?

Thanks much for your thoughts and advice.

Charmaine

Tom Roper · December 30th, 2008, 02:32 PM

I grudgingly embraced Vegas, not that I wanted it but because it was a lower price alternative, and somewhat essential to my XDCAM-EX1 workflow.

But I have to admit, it's grown on me. I'm impressed.

Other than that, Vegas/DVDA gives you pretty good tools for authoring Blu-ray. Rather than recommending what's right for you, I would encourage you to experiment with it. You'll discover a number of paths you can take. It's my observation that 8.0(c) renders acceptably fast, or even smart renders if you use the appropriate project settings. DVDA makes very attractive and functional menus as well, have good compatibility probably for foregoing the BD-java.

September 24th, 2008, 05:08 PM	#166
Kalunga Lima Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Luanda - ANGOLA & Lisbon - PORTUGAL Posts: 160	Delkin External Blu-Ray drive Has anyone tried the new Delkin external blu-ray drive for mastering blu-ray DVDs. Digital camera accessories and OEM flash manufacturer - Delkin Devices __________________ Kalunga Lima PMW-350, PDW-F350, PDW-EX1, MacBookPro, MacPro 8-Core, Final Cut Studio 2, Canon 5D MkII

November 20th, 2008, 01:17 PM	#168
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	BluRay license explained Great article from DiscMakers - explaining the ins and outs of BluRay licensing. For those who don't get the DiscMakers bulletin DVD vs. Blu-ray It does a great job explaining where the money goes, as well as where the bottleneck is for BD development.

November 25th, 2008, 06:17 PM	#170
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	I recently completed a project for IEC that includes a BD. (Yes, that's my name in the press release...) IEC - News releases > nr3608 - IEC International Standard brings energy efficiency to LCD and plasma TVs Our volumes are low so we duplicate (burn the discs and engrave the labels), rather than replicate (press.) I think this is the right path for most indies. A good strategy would be to get all of your ducks in a row, so you can pay the license fee and press discs quickly, just in case demand grows. That way you're not stuck with inventory, if sales bomb. If sales take off, the license fee will be a drop in the bucket, compared to the labor cost of burning tons of discs. BTW, for low volumes, you don't really need copy protection. There's not enough demand for the big-time thieves to get involved, and not much chance that someone who wants your disc will come across somebody willing to make them a copy. Sure, the situation isn't perfect, but it's workable. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

December 4th, 2008, 05:52 PM	#171
Paul Cascio Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bristol, CT (Home of EPSN) Posts: 1,192	Vegas to Edit, Premiere to Render to Blu-ray Everyone here has been so helpful that I thought I'd share this. As you may know, I had a feature length HD project that I wanted to deliver via Blu-ray, using the Vegas 32-bit option. Unfortunately, no matter what I did, Vegas would crash. The 8-bit renders work. It's only the 32-bit that crahses my system, but the 8-bit renders were too harsh and contrasty. Out of deperation, I decided to export my timeline to AAF, then import it into Premiere for rendering/burning to Blu-ray. Well, it worked. Premiere does an awesome 20-25MBPS Blu-ray (vs 15 MBPS for Vegas). However, there were some issues: 1. Transitions all become dissolves. No problem, I can pre-render that part of timeline to AVI before export and eliminate the transition coding. Or, I can add the transitions in Premiere, but I don't want to edit in Premiere. 2. Premiere lied to me. Or perhaps I misunderstood. I thought the render would take about three hours, but the whole process, including the burn was close to 13 hours and that was for just half of my project. I don't mind long renders as long as I can count on them to finish and Premiere did not let me down. Next time, I'll let Premiere work the third shift. 3. I think Vegas generated media also needs to be converted to AVI before the export. BTW, does Vegas create a file for each generated media event, or is it produced on-the-fly? I couldn't find the files. All in all, this proved to be a good workflow that let me utilize the best of two popular NLEs and produce the high quality Blu-ray result I was looking for. __________________ Paul Cascio www.pictureframingschool.com

December 5th, 2008, 01:08 AM	#172
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	I'm confused why you're going to Premiere for the encode...Having tested both encoders...The new Adobe Media Encoder is MUCH better than it was, but IMO, Vegas encoder, properly set up, does a better job. That said.... Generated media is generated on the fly, just as the name implies. You have to create a video file before exporting over AAF. Generated media is 4.4.4 media, and you'll likely want at least a 4:2:2 uncompressed to keep masks and so forth clean.... __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

September 25th, 2008, 12:23 PM	#167
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	it is probably nothing more than an LG blu-ray drive in an external box. my problem would be more with the USB connection (e-sata would be better), but it probably works fine.

November 20th, 2008, 10:30 PM	#169
Harrison Murchison Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 243	Frankly I'm sick of Blu-ray and AACS. There really needs to be an Indie level content protection system that would allow say Divx HD discs to be made with appropriate protection. It's foolish to think that you can design a foolproof system. I think the goal for Indies should be content protection that is affordable and thwarts all but the %20 of hackers that are unstoppable. Sinking $5 thousand dollars into your first Blu-ray project even before you started pressing discs is just crazy.

December 5th, 2008, 08:00 AM	#173
Paul Cascio Trustee Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bristol, CT (Home of EPSN) Posts: 1,192	Thanks Douglas. Vegas was crashing when I rendered using 32-bit and 8-bit was coming out with too much contrast. I would have loved to stay in Vegas, but exorting to Adobe for render provided the only solution I could find. However, if you have any sugestions that would allow me to render with 32-bit interpolation in Vegas, I'd be thrilled. BTW, I own your Vegas book and it's terrific--very well written and well organzied. __________________ Paul Cascio www.pictureframingschool.com

December 15th, 2008, 05:49 PM	#174
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	Differences between CS3 and CS4 concerning Blu-Ray authoring. 1. What’s the biggest differences? 2. If a documentary was done using either CS2 or CS3, wound it easily migrate to CS4 without any issues at all? Or would it be better to just upgrade Encore for authoring to Blu-Ray? __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot

December 17th, 2008, 12:21 PM	#175
Paul Kellett Trustee Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Bristol UK Posts: 1,273	Blu ray template for vegas and EX1 Does anyone from pal land have a render template for blu ray. I need to get it sorted quick and haven't got time to play around and find settings. Does the template differ according to the format which was recorded, ie 1440x1080/50i, 1920x1080/50i or 720/50p ? Is one of these formats better than the other if i know i'm going to be producing a blu ray disc ? What's the better output, mpeg or avc ? Thanks. Paul. __________________ Round 2 GH5,FZ2000

December 17th, 2008, 12:50 PM	#176
John Estcourt Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Scotland, Ayr www.amour weddingvideos.co.uk Posts: 305	sorry Paul I dont, i use sonic dvdit pro hd and it doesnt like the blu ray files I import from vegas so i use sorenson VC1 24p files. they seem pretty good and are 100% blu ray compatable.(only 24p though as 25i is broken for PAL and 25p is non bluray legal), Ive told sorenson but they dont seem to be able to fix it) I dont think avc is better than Mpeg but you will prob get more onto a disc due to the compression. FYI mainconcept reference has templates that will work fine for AVC, VC1 and MPEG, Ive tried them out but cant justify the cost of the pro versions just yet.(non pro versions are too restrictive on bit rate for AVC and VC1) sorry not much help but if your in a hurry Reference will work for you.

December 19th, 2008, 04:04 PM	#177
David Moody Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 86	I don't have CS4, but my understanding is that CS4 allows subtitles and pop up menu options that CS3 does not. That is the reason I am planning on upgrading.

December 27th, 2008, 03:01 PM	#178
Paul Cronin Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 4,048	What are the best Encore CS3 setting for Blu-Ray I edit in Final Cut 6.0.5 and export full size QuickTime 1080p then into Compressor. Out of Compressor I use Mpeg 2 with the BluRay option setting the bit rate 40 max and 30 min and full 1080. Then I import into Encore CS3 and have been testing settings. Since my footage is 30p (29.97) in FC I choose 29.97i (ugh) in Encore and have been able to burn a disk. It will not be until tomorrow that I can view on a BluRay player. But in Encore preview it is very poor quality. I have been through all the options I can think of with settings. Question: What settings are people using out of Encore to achieve high quality BluRay disk? My burner is the MCE internal for Mac. __________________ Paul Cronin www.paulcroninstudios.com Last edited by Paul Cronin; December 28th, 2008 at 08:52 AM.

December 30th, 2008, 02:05 PM	#179
Charmaine Anderson Tourist Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 3	Blu-ray rendering questions Hi folks, I'm new to blu-ray rendering and just upgraded to Vegas 8.0. What Vegas 8.0 video quality rendering settings are recommended for use with DVD Architect 5.0 to burn onto Blu-ray? I realize that with a Blu-ray disc you probably don't need to compress and can set the quality setting to high, but I've read that the human eye can't perceive more than 95% quality anyway so would it be ok to set it at 95% quality to save on render time and hard drive space? Also, I'm used to rendering files to DVD architect in .mpg 2 format but Vegas 8 seems to export the Blu-ray files in .m2v format - so I assume .m2v is the right file type for Blu-ray? For rendering audio for blu-ray from Vegas should I still render as AC3 Dolby stereo? Also, can you recommend a good Blu-ray disc supplier with decent prices? I've read there are different blu-ray disc types and wonder which one would be readable by most Blu-ray players? Thanks much for your thoughts and advice. Charmaine Last edited by Charmaine Anderson; December 30th, 2008 at 02:09 PM. Reason: clarified question

December 30th, 2008, 02:32 PM	#180
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	I grudgingly embraced Vegas, not that I wanted it but because it was a lower price alternative, and somewhat essential to my XDCAM-EX1 workflow. But I have to admit, it's grown on me. I'm impressed. Other than that, Vegas/DVDA gives you pretty good tools for authoring Blu-ray. Rather than recommending what's right for you, I would encourage you to experiment with it. You'll discover a number of paths you can take. It's my observation that 8.0(c) renders acceptably fast, or even smart renders if you use the appropriate project settings. DVDA makes very attractive and functional menus as well, have good compatibility probably for foregoing the BD-java.