Rendering blu ray: 1920 or 1440? at DVinfo.net

Stephen Sobel · January 18th, 2009, 03:15 PM

I have some footage that I shot in 60i, using my XH-A1. I've imported it into Vegas Pro 8, done some editing and color correction, and am now about ready to render it into a DVDA Blu Ray format. The project settings (which I set to match the media) show up as 1440X1080. In the render settings, there are several 60i options. The final blu ray project will be viewed on a HDTV that can show 1920X1080i for TV, and 1920X1080p for blu ray media using the blu ray player. Given all that, should I use a 1920X1080 setting, or a 1440X1080 setting when I render?

Ian Campbell · January 18th, 2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Sobel

In the render settings, there are several 60i options. The final blu ray project will be viewed on a HDTV that can show 1920X1080i for TV, and 1920X1080p for blu ray media using the blu ray player. Given all that, should I use a 1920X1080 setting, or a 1440X1080 setting when I render?

Timely question. I have been wondering the same thing. I'm shooting with the Sony HD Z7U camcorder which records HDV at 1440X1080. I had an opportunity a few days ago to talk with one of the folks from Sony Software who works on DVD Architect develpment. I asked your exact question. He suggested that 1440X1080 is a perfectly good Blu-ray spec, and recommended sticking with that if that is what the native resolution was. He felt that converting in DVA to 1920X1080 wouldn't yield good results. I've tested both resolutions -- and outputting on disc to either 1440X1080 or 1920X1080 looks fine to my eyes. But, since I've been told by someone knowing more than me about this setting -- I'll be sticking to 1440X1080 for projects originating on HDV.

What DVA codec choice are you using -- MPEG-2 or AVC? I haven't taken the time yet to see what seems to work best.

Hope this info. is helpful.

Ian

Eugene Kosarovich · January 19th, 2009, 11:31 PM

Another reason to come to the same conclusion:

If you are compressing 1440X1080 instead of 1920X1080, effectively, you are compressing it less at the same data rate since there are so many less pixels. And since that's the resolution you started with, you aren't throwing away any resolution.

And the scaling hardware in Blu-ray players is typically really good.

Perrone Ford · January 19th, 2009, 11:37 PM

There should be no scaling of 1440x1080. It's merely a pixel reshape. 1440 is a rectangular shape whereas 1920 is square. HDTV uses square pixels, thus any time I amy prepping for HD or web I convert any non-square footage to square to avoid issues.

If you edit at 1440, and lay in graphics and titles, they will all reshape when going to square pixel formats.

Stephen Sobel · January 20th, 2009, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perrone Ford

There should be no scaling of 1440x1080. It's merely a pixel reshape. 1440 is a rectangular shape whereas 1920 is square. HDTV uses square pixels, thus any time I amy prepping for HD or web I convert any non-square footage to square to avoid issues.

If you edit at 1440, and lay in graphics and titles, they will all reshape when going to square pixel formats.

It's for a Blu Ray disc that will be watched on an HDTV. So do you recommend I render at 1440 or 1920?

Perrone Ford · January 20th, 2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Sobel

It's for a Blu Ray disc that will be watched on an HDTV. So do you recommend I render at 1440 or 1920?

HDTV specifies two data sizes:

1. 1920x1080
2. 1280x720

1440 is a capture format using non-square pixels which HDTV does not support but was a compromise necessary to put HD signals on miniDV tape. I'd render at one of the two supported data sizes.

Tom Roper · January 20th, 2009, 12:00 PM

I disagree. I've done this both ways many times. There's no reason not to render to 1440 unless you are using mixed footage in your project. Blu-ray format supports 1440, so the player upscales the output.

On Blu-ray, my judgment is that 1440 is clearly better looking than rendering to 1920 in software, that's my experience, plus you have more encoding headroom for the same bitrate with the smaller frame size.

Perrone Ford · January 20th, 2009, 12:02 PM

He asked my opinion, I offered it. Your's is different and that's cool.

So there it is.

Tom Roper · January 20th, 2009, 12:04 PM

Just giving my opinion too, no problem here.

Stephen Sobel · January 20th, 2009, 12:38 PM

Thanks (all of you) for the feedback.

In the render settings, do you leave the video quality setting at the default, or do you move it to the right?

Perrone Ford · January 20th, 2009, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Sobel

Thanks (all of you) for the feedback.

In the render settings, do you leave the video quality setting at the default, or do you move it to the right?

I'm never in a hurry, so I always use maximum quality. Your needs may differ.

Joe Busch · January 21st, 2009, 03:11 AM

I burned a test HD-DVD onto a DVD5 (4.7GB disk) with 20 minutes of footage

It was all kept at 1440x1080 and looks fine.

Once we get the new blu-ray player, I'll repeat the test on our new Sony 52" 1080p, but I have a feeling it'll be the same (just fine)

If you stick a DVD into your DVD player attached to an HDTV how is it possibly playing a 720 x 480 video on 1920 x 1080?

TV's have internal scalers that can handle different resolutions and understand pixel aspect ratios. (Which standard DVD's both have, Standard Definition does not use square pixels)

Dale Guthormsen · January 28th, 2009, 11:20 AM

Good Morning,

Is it possible to burn hd to a standard DVD and then play it to an HD television?

I reckon not, but I do not have a blu ray player yet.

Perrone Ford · January 28th, 2009, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale Guthormsen

Good Morning,

Is it possible to burn hd to a standard DVD and then play it to an HD television?

I reckon not, but I do not have a blu ray player yet.

You can burn HD to a standard DVD, and if you have a player that supports it, it will play in a Blu-Ray player at HD resolution.

However, if all you have is a standard DVD player, then it won't understand the data stream.

Joe Busch · January 28th, 2009, 03:19 PM

It will work, it's just the size of the data, you can only fit 20-30 minutes of footage before you have to start compressing it a lot.

It's great for testing/watching movies on your big-screen if you got a blu-ray or HD-DVD player... just you're limited to 20-30 minutes...

January 18th, 2009, 03:15 PM	#1
Stephen Sobel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 408	Rendering blu ray: 1920 or 1440? I have some footage that I shot in 60i, using my XH-A1. I've imported it into Vegas Pro 8, done some editing and color correction, and am now about ready to render it into a DVDA Blu Ray format. The project settings (which I set to match the media) show up as 1440X1080. In the render settings, there are several 60i options. The final blu ray project will be viewed on a HDTV that can show 1920X1080i for TV, and 1920X1080p for blu ray media using the blu ray player. Given all that, should I use a 1920X1080 setting, or a 1440X1080 setting when I render?

January 19th, 2009, 11:31 PM	#3
Eugene Kosarovich Taken away too young... rest in peace Eugene Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Albany, NY Posts: 161	Another reason to come to the same conclusion: If you are compressing 1440X1080 instead of 1920X1080, effectively, you are compressing it less at the same data rate since there are so many less pixels. And since that's the resolution you started with, you aren't throwing away any resolution. And the scaling hardware in Blu-ray players is typically really good. __________________ Scorpio Productions PDW-F335, PDW-U1, Vegas Pro 9.0b

January 19th, 2009, 11:37 PM	#4
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	There should be no scaling of 1440x1080. It's merely a pixel reshape. 1440 is a rectangular shape whereas 1920 is square. HDTV uses square pixels, thus any time I amy prepping for HD or web I convert any non-square footage to square to avoid issues. If you edit at 1440, and lay in graphics and titles, they will all reshape when going to square pixel formats. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

January 20th, 2009, 12:02 PM	#8
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	He asked my opinion, I offered it. Your's is different and that's cool. So there it is. __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

January 28th, 2009, 11:20 AM	#13
Dale Guthormsen Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Saskatchewan Posts: 3,048	Good Morning, Is it possible to burn hd to a standard DVD and then play it to an HD television? I reckon not, but I do not have a blu ray player yet. __________________ DATS ALL FOLKS Dale W. Guthormsen

January 20th, 2009, 12:00 PM	#7
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	I disagree. I've done this both ways many times. There's no reason not to render to 1440 unless you are using mixed footage in your project. Blu-ray format supports 1440, so the player upscales the output. On Blu-ray, my judgment is that 1440 is clearly better looking than rendering to 1920 in software, that's my experience, plus you have more encoding headroom for the same bitrate with the smaller frame size.

January 20th, 2009, 12:04 PM	#9
Tom Roper Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Denver, Colorado Posts: 1,891	Just giving my opinion too, no problem here.

January 20th, 2009, 12:38 PM	#10
Stephen Sobel Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 408	Thanks (all of you) for the feedback. In the render settings, do you leave the video quality setting at the default, or do you move it to the right?

January 21st, 2009, 03:11 AM	#12
Joe Busch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sammamish, WA Posts: 398	I burned a test HD-DVD onto a DVD5 (4.7GB disk) with 20 minutes of footage It was all kept at 1440x1080 and looks fine. Once we get the new blu-ray player, I'll repeat the test on our new Sony 52" 1080p, but I have a feeling it'll be the same (just fine) If you stick a DVD into your DVD player attached to an HDTV how is it possibly playing a 720 x 480 video on 1920 x 1080? TV's have internal scalers that can handle different resolutions and understand pixel aspect ratios. (Which standard DVD's both have, Standard Definition does not use square pixels)

January 28th, 2009, 03:19 PM	#15
Joe Busch Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sammamish, WA Posts: 398	It will work, it's just the size of the data, you can only fit 20-30 minutes of footage before you have to start compressing it a lot. It's great for testing/watching movies on your big-screen if you got a blu-ray or HD-DVD player... just you're limited to 20-30 minutes...