Alternative HD distribution vs. the failing Blu-ray format!

Tripp Woelfel · February 9th, 2009, 06:15 AM

Robert... I'd have to go with Josh's numbers. He sites two sources where you site none. In a discussion of facts, you really have to site legitimate sources of those facts.

We may all just be picking the bark off the trees because when we're talking about HD delivery we're referring to the upscale portion of the video market anyway. The penetration of broadband in households with at least one HD TV is likely higher than those without.

I know. I'm violating my statement in the first paragraph above, but I think it's a valid assumption.

Robert Rogoz · February 9th, 2009, 12:14 PM

Tripp, this is the source: MediaPost Publications Broadband Adds Subscribers As HDTV Owners Increase 01/06/2009
http://www.leichtmanresearch.com/pre...08release.html
Josh quoted a 980 people survey. Here actually they went and counted the accounts. Figure which is is more accurate? Number of households is from the Census Bureau.
Josh's anti BD sentiment is because this technology and licensing is screwing the small guy. He is also stating web delivery of HD content is not. My point is that for now it is a smaller market with higher cost than any BD licensing costs. BTW BD is not failing judging by the fact that every new movie is released on BD and most of movies on Netflix on BD has wait list.
It is what it is, no reason to gripe about it. I am not happy about licensing fees. For now DVD delivery has to do.

Josh Mellicker · February 9th, 2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Rogoz

Josh, sorry, but your sources are kind of bunk. They don't provide any real numbers and are based up on 900 sample survey.... These are some hard facts: Total household units: 105,480,101. Total cable in 2008- 36,492,914 (net increase of 873,745 in 3Q 2008 vs 1,407,902 in 1Q 2006- see the number difference?). DSL in 2008- 30,168,880 (3Q 2008 increase 425,868 vs 1,658,139 in 1Q2006). Total broadband: 66,661,794. So as you see it's not 75% or 80 or 85 like you suggested, but the real number is hovering roughly about 60%.

Whether it's 60% or 80%, HD on the internet has been alive and well for a while, and is growing fast. Many DVinfo readers have been delivering HD over IP for a while, this year, I would imagine almost all of them will, for a client or independent project.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Rogoz

DSL is not able to deliver smoothly HD content- only fiber optic cable can.

To clarify, smoothness in playback has nothing to do with bandwidth, but with processing speed. Older computers cannot decode 1080p H.264 without dropping frames, it's too processor intensive. (My MacBook Pro can play 10mbps 1080p H.264 with ease however :) )

A viewer's connection speed determines only how long they have to wait before playback starts- enough video must cache so that playback is uninterrupted.

The Bitrate Budget Calculator will tell you what bitrate to stay under and how long your viewers will have to wait, there's a movie here:

Bitrate Budget Calculator at DVcreators.net

If you are putting video on a web page and you want it to start within a couple seconds:

For DSL1, you need to keep bitrate under 1200 or so, which might work well with low motion content at 960x540.

DSL2 has been rolled out around the U.S. offering speeds upwards of 2500, you can deliver beautiful 1280x720 at these speeds.

About halfway down this page:

Encoding at DVcreators.net

in the left column, there are links to 720p and 1080p video I encoded with DV Kitchen.

If anyone with DSL wants to post how long they took to start and if they played smoothly, that would be cool.

But here we are only talking about video on a web page. MOD Machine downloads video to your drive so it always plays smoothly- even when you're not connected to the internet. Even someone with a slow 768kbps DSL connection will get great HD quality and performance with MOD Machine-delivered video.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Rogoz

The other issue is paying for bandwidth for HD delivery- your 1300 bucks fee for a title would be nothing compared to the cost of server and enough bandwidth. Typical server you have about 500-900MB space with monthly limit of 2 GB transfer for about $200-250/year. See the issue here? (if you know hosting sites let me know- please!)

Dreamhost offers unlimited storage and unlimited bandwidth for $5.95 per month. We signed up for a test account and can stream about 1.2 kbps- not enough for HD.

However, you can put your website there, and host your video content on Amazon AWS/Cloudfront at 17 cents per GB. So to deliver, let's say, a feature-length 1080p movie would cost about 68 cents- that's less than Blu-ray replication, not to mention the other fees.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Rogoz

There is no such thing as pirate proof. These are codes, any code can be cracked, something any programer will tell you.

True, but my point is, if you want to protect your content, DO NOT DELIVER ON DVD OR BLU-RAY! Anyone who knows how to do a Google search will find it easy to download to free or low cost utility that will rip a disc in a few clicks.

At least MOD Machine is safe from all but perhaps a handful of the world's greatest hackers.

Bruce Foreman · February 11th, 2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

If your clients would have an external harddrive so it would only leave them with a 99 dollar device to play it in HD, if you do video and photo you could make both available on their ext drive. What I'm curious about is the performance and quality if you write it to a usb stick.

That's exactly what I do. Both HD WMV (including 1920x1080) and MP4 play smooth and without any stutter or dropped frames. I have an extra external USB hard drive I've been intending to move over to the TV to use with the WD TV but walking over and plugging in 8GB thumb drives is so convenient I'm content to do that.

I've been waiting for over a year for such a device as this and the $130 I spent on mine is money well spent. I like this thing!

If I had to, I could stuff the unit, remote, wall wart power supply and HDMI cable in a small messenger bag and take it to someone's home or business if they had an HDMI input on their TV.

Noa Put · February 12th, 2009, 03:52 AM

In the meantime I bought the player and have used it at clients, the visual difference on their big screen lcd makes a big impact if I show them a regular dvd afterwards. It plays, as you said, high bitrate files without a problem from a usb stick and I'm really pleased with my purchase. Having such a small player that easily fits into a backpack with me at client visits is a advantage when you want to sell your work. Most people don't have a BR player yet but I make them a Mpeg2 BR file which can be stored on their laptop or ext drive without any extra cost, in that way they can come back later to have their wedding burned onto a BR disk.

Desmond Sukotjo · February 18th, 2009, 07:18 PM

Back to this WD TV device. Does it support Chapters? Say if we have chapters in our HD movie, can it be jump through chapters?

February 9th, 2009, 06:15 AM	#31
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Robert... I'd have to go with Josh's numbers. He sites two sources where you site none. In a discussion of facts, you really have to site legitimate sources of those facts. We may all just be picking the bark off the trees because when we're talking about HD delivery we're referring to the upscale portion of the video market anyway. The penetration of broadband in households with at least one HD TV is likely higher than those without. I know. I'm violating my statement in the first paragraph above, but I think it's a valid assumption.

February 9th, 2009, 12:14 PM	#32
Robert Rogoz Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 457	Tripp, this is the source: MediaPost Publications Broadband Adds Subscribers As HDTV Owners Increase 01/06/2009 http://www.leichtmanresearch.com/pre...08release.html Josh quoted a 980 people survey. Here actually they went and counted the accounts. Figure which is is more accurate? Number of households is from the Census Bureau. Josh's anti BD sentiment is because this technology and licensing is screwing the small guy. He is also stating web delivery of HD content is not. My point is that for now it is a smaller market with higher cost than any BD licensing costs. BTW BD is not failing judging by the fact that every new movie is released on BD and most of movies on Netflix on BD has wait list. It is what it is, no reason to gripe about it. I am not happy about licensing fees. For now DVD delivery has to do.

February 12th, 2009, 03:52 AM	#35
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	In the meantime I bought the player and have used it at clients, the visual difference on their big screen lcd makes a big impact if I show them a regular dvd afterwards. It plays, as you said, high bitrate files without a problem from a usb stick and I'm really pleased with my purchase. Having such a small player that easily fits into a backpack with me at client visits is a advantage when you want to sell your work. Most people don't have a BR player yet but I make them a Mpeg2 BR file which can be stored on their laptop or ext drive without any extra cost, in that way they can come back later to have their wedding burned onto a BR disk.

February 18th, 2009, 07:18 PM	#36
Desmond Sukotjo Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 88	Back to this WD TV device. Does it support Chapters? Say if we have chapters in our HD movie, can it be jump through chapters?