Hyperdeck Shuttle at DVinfo.net

Paul Kapp · September 10th, 2011, 09:14 PM

I have had the Shuttle for about a month now and want to share some experiences of it.

Actual Data rate is 134Mb/s for 1080p 25, about 8Gb/min, so 15 mins fits on a 120Gb SSD,
and 160.3 mb/s for 1080p 30, about 9.5 Gb/min.

Recording from an 8 bit camera, the JVC GY-HM750, the picture is not brilliant, but hopefully better than native MP4.
I have yet to test them side by side.

The Shuttle is exellent and performs as advertised.
With an HD SDI input, the shuttle outputs live HDMI and HD SDI, and can be monitored using either.
I have monitored and played back video on a 46" Sony Bravia which looks excellent but close up it shows the 8 bit limitations of my camera.

SSD's can be easily formatted for the Shuttle in HFS+ via a USB dock on a PC using Macdrive.
Ingest is easy as, via a dock onto a hard drive, then opening in Premiere CS5.5.
The files can be played back and mixed in real time in Premiere on Windows 7 x64 with the right graphix card(Nvidea).
Output is possible using a large range of options in premiere, including Quicktime and, exporting in Uncompressed 10bit 4:2:2 HD, the file size remains the same and takes roughly 2 x realtime to render.

Paul Kapp · September 10th, 2011, 10:06 PM

SSD's

BMD do not give much info on which SSD's are compatible so here is some research I did into SSD's for the Shuttle.

BMD Hyperdeck FAQs:
The following SSD's are (re)commended for uncompressed video capture:
1.OCZ 240GB Vertex 3
2.OCZ 480GB Vertex 3
3.Crucial 256GB C300
4.Kingston 64GB SSDNow V+
5.Kingston 128GB SSDNow V+

OLD VS NEW
There may be good reasons for using older SSD's with Toshiba T6UG1XBG controllers as they have always on garbage collection that gets around the lack of OS TRIM support of the shuttle, and no compression of files, so advertised speed = actually speed for incompressible data like UC 1080p HD.
Some older SATA 2 drives do better than new SATA 3's:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4316/o...240gb-review/6
Compare the OZC Vertex 3 120Gb(161.9Mb/s ISWS) to the Corsair Nova 128Gb(184.3Mb/s ISWS).
The OZC Vertex 240(284.4Mb/s ISWS) is approved by BMD but not the 120Gb(161.9Mb/s ISWS).

LACK OF OS TRIM SUPPORT
The Kingston SSDNow V+100 128GB, which is approved for use by BMD, addresses the lack of OS TRIM support by the Shuttle.
AnandTech - Kingston SSDNow V+100 Review
Without these features, drives will need to be periodically secure erased, as the nature of SSD's is such that constant writing and erasing causes the drives to lose performance.
Secure erasing is the SSD equivalent of defragging, but all data is lost, not an issue for a media disk though.
Secure erasing can be quite a challenging and risky process for the inexperienced.
Experimenting with SE, I cooked 2 Force 60 drives that did not support SE and had to RMA them.

NEW GENERATION SPEED
SSD's with the latest generation of Sandforce controllers, have seriously high Sequential Write speeds, but the important spec is Incompressible Sequential Write speed which is significantly lower than the former.
AnandTech - The SandForce Roundup: Corsair, Kingston, Patriot, OCZ, OWC & MemoRight SSDs Compared
For example, the OZC Vertex 3 240Gb, which is also approved by BMD for the shuttle.
It has the new SATA 3 interface and has a Sequential Write speed of 480Mb/s, but an Incompressible SWS of 284.4Mb/s.
Since the Shuttle is SATA 2 the full performance benefits are not available to the Shuttle, nor will they be needed.
We only need to clear the hurdle of 134-161Mb/s ISWS to record 1080p 25-30fps.
However, the overhead of backward compatibilty of SATA 3 to 2, and the need to handle Incompressible files, reduces the performance of most of these new generation SSD's down to barely coping with 161mb/s ISWS.

SIZE
A further factor is the size of the SSD.
Due to SSD structure, 240Gb SSD's are double the speed(for Incompressible data) of 120Gb ones.
Again, the OZC Vertex 240 is approved by BMD but not the 120gb.

NAND
Lastly, some new SSD's use Aynchronous NAND , and others use Synchonous NAND which is faster.
It seems a 120Gb drive with the new Sandforce controller, and Synchronous NAND, will just scrape over the line to meet specs for 1080 30p, 161mb/s ISWS.
Whereas SSD's without Synchonous NAND, like the OZC Agility 3 120Gb, and Corsair Force 3 120Gb, will not make the grade.
The Kingston HyperX 120Gb does the job for UC HD 1080 25 and 30p recording from my camera.
The Corsair Force GT 120Gb (161.5Mb/s ISWS) has similar specs to the HyperX and so should be enough for UC HD 1080 30p as well.

TO SUM UP
SSD's with new Sandforce SF-2281 controllers, preferably 240Gb, (or 120Gb with Synchronous NAND), will do the job.
You will have to Secure Erase once performance drops.
Unless you get a Kingston SSDNow V+100 128GB(192mb/s ISWS), then always on garbage collection will free you from lower performance, (but at the expense of shortening the life of the drive).

Steve Phillipps · September 25th, 2011, 03:47 PM

Good info Paul, thanks.
How long roughly does the internal battery last?
Steve

Paul Kapp · September 28th, 2011, 06:47 PM

Thanks Steve.
Not sure yet as I have only being doing short tests, but it seems to last for a long time and stays charged in between use for over a month.
A good sign.
It will surely stay charged for over an hour of recording.
There is a new upgrade for firmware which purports to address a bug where the Shuttle powers down after 50% charge when used in converter mode.
I have not encountered this situation yet.
There is a 12v input and the Shuttle is supposed to handle a range of 12-18v, so good for camera/battery power inputs.
When external 12v input is used, the internal battery is also charged.
The Shuttle comes with a mains charger.

Tony Partamian · October 5th, 2011, 02:42 PM

Paul,
can you explain a bit how you're backing-up data, are you editing off the drives?
I'm considering to get the Hyperdeck over the samurai but the intense data is scary.

Let's say i need an hour of 25p rushes = 500GB, how much time does it take to copy that from the ssd to an external HD or to the internal raid on the mac?

Paul Kapp · October 14th, 2011, 07:33 AM

Recording in uncompressed, the Hyperdeck Shuttle has large data rates, but full HD SDI. The Atomos uses high quality compression. They are suited to quite different applications. Not that I have seen the Samurai. I am waiting for a PIX 240 to ship. I have only experimented with short clips but a 10Gb clip only takes a few minutes to txfer. Quicker than tape, that's for sure. I wouldn't see the time in txfering as the main concern. Editing off the drive did not work for me with a USB cradle but might with eSATAp. Playing it back on a computer requires a good rig, nothing too expensive though. I happen to have a pc with the required specs so no extra cost there. The Shuttle is a very cheap yet high quality solution for ingest. Relatively cheap. With an SSD aroundof $500 you will get approx 1hr of full HD. That's still less than 1/2 the price of the Samurai all up. I decided to get the Shuttle while waiting for the PIX, which being a recorder of compressed HD will not have the same quality, but will cost 4 times the price. If one shoots lots of live events, a Shuttle would not be an option, but if not, it's actually going to be better for some applications like high end work, blue screening, compositing etc. My experiences of production are that 1-2hrs max per day of tape is the rule, usually less for quality work. The Shuttle would probably have suited my purposes and I could have done without the PIX.

Stewart Hemley · October 14th, 2011, 08:33 PM

I'm looking hard at the Samurai, AjaMiniPro, Pix and Shuttle and going steadily cross-eyed. On paper the Sam looks the best bang for buck, but the shuttle maybe gives the very best visual output. How about the sound aspect? The Pix seems the best followed closely by the Aja. Can't see any firm specs re the Sam sound input other than it's via jacks instead of xlr - not so good IMO.

Any thoughts to help me un-cross the eyes would be most welcome.

Tony Partamian · October 15th, 2011, 12:41 AM

People always seem to love the audio pre-amps on the PIX (it's a sound device after all)
but shouldn't we use the camera inputs and transfer those on HDSDI for perfect sync?
And if we're already using a sound device mixer on set,do we still need those pre-amps?

I know i get some sync issues on the edit workstation if i monitor throuh sdi and audio through mac audio out.

Paul Kapp · October 15th, 2011, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart Hemley

I'm looking hard at the Samurai, AjaMiniPro, Pix and Shuttle and going steadily cross-eyed. On paper the Sam looks the best bang for buck, but the shuttle maybe gives the very best visual output. How about the sound aspect? The Pix seems the best followed closely by the Aja. Can't see any firm specs re the Sam sound input other than it's via jacks instead of xlr - not so good IMO.

Any thoughts to help me un-cross the eyes would be most welcome.

Between the Samurai, AjaMiniPro, Pix, the PIX looks like the most versatile and robust device, but wait until I get one then let me confirm this. These will probably all match for picture quality but function differently.

I bought the shuttle on a gamble that this was a great device that would be at least useful if not the best solution.
I'm satisfied with it on that basis.
The PIX looks like the best recorder available.
We will see.

Chris Medico · October 15th, 2011, 08:34 AM

My understanding is retail units are on the way to the vendors. I don't know how many but there should be some people getting them in their hands next week or soon thereafter. Hopefully we will hear about it as they start to arrive.

It is a very nice recorder. I'll be shooting with it on Sunday for a local production doing some behind the scenes/interviews. I know that may sound like a job not up to its value but its going to be a good no pressure test.

If all goes well the first real project I'll shot with the F3/S-Log with (possibly the PIX240) external recorder is for a series pilot being shot in NC in January.

Stewart Hemley · October 15th, 2011, 09:28 AM

Thanks Paul and Chris. I look forward to hearing what you think. I need one for something that might get broadcast so need the best quality sound. I'll be feeding it with a Rode NTG3, probably. So that would mean adapters for the Samurai - another bit to connect/dislodge/worry about in the heat of battle. Not sure about that.

Paul Kapp · February 27th, 2012, 05:03 PM

Excellent resource for cables and connectors:
Laird Telemedia Laird Red One Video 3G SDI DIN RA 1.0/2.3 to BNC Adapter Cable - 1 Foot - Red Din to Din Cables at Markertek.com

Paul Kapp · March 2nd, 2012, 06:39 PM

Mounting the Shuttle on a camera.

I invested in a Shuttle Mounting plate but discovered that it weighs 600gms which adds significantly to my cameras overall weight, and the position I wanted to mount it, on the left of the battery, would make it lopsided when going hand held.

So I made a modification to the backplate of the Shuttle and screwed it to the Anton Bauer backplate which has fittings for wireless boxes etc.
This greatly improved the ergonomics, placing the Shuttle where controls are easily seen and accessible.
The SSD is easily removed too.
Power is via a DTap to 2.5mm DC plug from the AB mount.

Gerald Webb · March 5th, 2012, 08:30 PM

Paul, can I ask what kind of arm you are using for your monitor, and is it sturdy?
Need to get one in the next week.
cheers

Paul Kapp · March 6th, 2012, 08:04 AM

It's from a Chinese company called CoolLCD.
Its good quality and very good value, very sturdy, though the the 1/4" screw needs to be tightly screwed to the camera.
This would be the same for any arm no doubt.
Cheapest Articulating Arm, Discount Magic Articulating Arm, Wholesale Magic Arm
They couriered it over from China by DHL in 4 days for a freight low cost.
They have some new ones since I bought this in July last year.
Their lights look interesting too.

September 10th, 2011, 09:14 PM	#1
Paul Kapp Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 111	Hyperdeck Shuttle I have had the Shuttle for about a month now and want to share some experiences of it. Actual Data rate is 134Mb/s for 1080p 25, about 8Gb/min, so 15 mins fits on a 120Gb SSD, and 160.3 mb/s for 1080p 30, about 9.5 Gb/min. Recording from an 8 bit camera, the JVC GY-HM750, the picture is not brilliant, but hopefully better than native MP4. I have yet to test them side by side. The Shuttle is exellent and performs as advertised. With an HD SDI input, the shuttle outputs live HDMI and HD SDI, and can be monitored using either. I have monitored and played back video on a 46" Sony Bravia which looks excellent but close up it shows the 8 bit limitations of my camera. SSD's can be easily formatted for the Shuttle in HFS+ via a USB dock on a PC using Macdrive. Ingest is easy as, via a dock onto a hard drive, then opening in Premiere CS5.5. The files can be played back and mixed in real time in Premiere on Windows 7 x64 with the right graphix card(Nvidea). Output is possible using a large range of options in premiere, including Quicktime and, exporting in Uncompressed 10bit 4:2:2 HD, the file size remains the same and takes roughly 2 x realtime to render. Last edited by Paul Kapp; September 11th, 2011 at 12:31 AM.

September 10th, 2011, 10:06 PM	#2
Paul Kapp Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 111	Re: Hyperdeck Shuttle SSD's BMD do not give much info on which SSD's are compatible so here is some research I did into SSD's for the Shuttle. BMD Hyperdeck FAQs: The following SSD's are (re)commended for uncompressed video capture: 1.OCZ 240GB Vertex 3 2.OCZ 480GB Vertex 3 3.Crucial 256GB C300 4.Kingston 64GB SSDNow V+ 5.Kingston 128GB SSDNow V+ OLD VS NEW There may be good reasons for using older SSD's with Toshiba T6UG1XBG controllers as they have always on garbage collection that gets around the lack of OS TRIM support of the shuttle, and no compression of files, so advertised speed = actually speed for incompressible data like UC 1080p HD. Some older SATA 2 drives do better than new SATA 3's: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4316/o...240gb-review/6 Compare the OZC Vertex 3 120Gb(161.9Mb/s ISWS) to the Corsair Nova 128Gb(184.3Mb/s ISWS). The OZC Vertex 240(284.4Mb/s ISWS) is approved by BMD but not the 120Gb(161.9Mb/s ISWS). LACK OF OS TRIM SUPPORT The Kingston SSDNow V+100 128GB, which is approved for use by BMD, addresses the lack of OS TRIM support by the Shuttle. AnandTech - Kingston SSDNow V+100 Review Without these features, drives will need to be periodically secure erased, as the nature of SSD's is such that constant writing and erasing causes the drives to lose performance. Secure erasing is the SSD equivalent of defragging, but all data is lost, not an issue for a media disk though. Secure erasing can be quite a challenging and risky process for the inexperienced. Experimenting with SE, I cooked 2 Force 60 drives that did not support SE and had to RMA them. NEW GENERATION SPEED SSD's with the latest generation of Sandforce controllers, have seriously high Sequential Write speeds, but the important spec is Incompressible Sequential Write speed which is significantly lower than the former. AnandTech - The SandForce Roundup: Corsair, Kingston, Patriot, OCZ, OWC & MemoRight SSDs Compared For example, the OZC Vertex 3 240Gb, which is also approved by BMD for the shuttle. It has the new SATA 3 interface and has a Sequential Write speed of 480Mb/s, but an Incompressible SWS of 284.4Mb/s. Since the Shuttle is SATA 2 the full performance benefits are not available to the Shuttle, nor will they be needed. We only need to clear the hurdle of 134-161Mb/s ISWS to record 1080p 25-30fps. However, the overhead of backward compatibilty of SATA 3 to 2, and the need to handle Incompressible files, reduces the performance of most of these new generation SSD's down to barely coping with 161mb/s ISWS. SIZE A further factor is the size of the SSD. Due to SSD structure, 240Gb SSD's are double the speed(for Incompressible data) of 120Gb ones. Again, the OZC Vertex 240 is approved by BMD but not the 120gb. NAND Lastly, some new SSD's use Aynchronous NAND , and others use Synchonous NAND which is faster. It seems a 120Gb drive with the new Sandforce controller, and Synchronous NAND, will just scrape over the line to meet specs for 1080 30p, 161mb/s ISWS. Whereas SSD's without Synchonous NAND, like the OZC Agility 3 120Gb, and Corsair Force 3 120Gb, will not make the grade. The Kingston HyperX 120Gb does the job for UC HD 1080 25 and 30p recording from my camera. The Corsair Force GT 120Gb (161.5Mb/s ISWS) has similar specs to the HyperX and so should be enough for UC HD 1080 30p as well. TO SUM UP SSD's with new Sandforce SF-2281 controllers, preferably 240Gb, (or 120Gb with Synchronous NAND), will do the job. You will have to Secure Erase once performance drops. Unless you get a Kingston SSDNow V+100 128GB(192mb/s ISWS), then always on garbage collection will free you from lower performance, (but at the expense of shortening the life of the drive). Last edited by Paul Kapp; September 11th, 2011 at 12:33 AM.

September 25th, 2011, 03:47 PM	#3
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Re: Hyperdeck Shuttle Good info Paul, thanks. How long roughly does the internal battery last? Steve

September 28th, 2011, 06:47 PM	#4
Paul Kapp Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 111	Re: Hyperdeck Shuttle Thanks Steve. Not sure yet as I have only being doing short tests, but it seems to last for a long time and stays charged in between use for over a month. A good sign. It will surely stay charged for over an hour of recording. There is a new upgrade for firmware which purports to address a bug where the Shuttle powers down after 50% charge when used in converter mode. I have not encountered this situation yet. There is a 12v input and the Shuttle is supposed to handle a range of 12-18v, so good for camera/battery power inputs. When external 12v input is used, the internal battery is also charged. The Shuttle comes with a mains charger.

October 5th, 2011, 02:42 PM	#5
Tony Partamian Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lebanon Posts: 51	Re: Hyperdeck Shuttle Paul, can you explain a bit how you're backing-up data, are you editing off the drives? I'm considering to get the Hyperdeck over the samurai but the intense data is scary. Let's say i need an hour of 25p rushes = 500GB, how much time does it take to copy that from the ssd to an external HD or to the internal raid on the mac?

October 14th, 2011, 07:33 AM	#6
Paul Kapp Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 111	Re: Hyperdeck Shuttle Recording in uncompressed, the Hyperdeck Shuttle has large data rates, but full HD SDI. The Atomos uses high quality compression. They are suited to quite different applications. Not that I have seen the Samurai. I am waiting for a PIX 240 to ship. I have only experimented with short clips but a 10Gb clip only takes a few minutes to txfer. Quicker than tape, that's for sure. I wouldn't see the time in txfering as the main concern. Editing off the drive did not work for me with a USB cradle but might with eSATAp. Playing it back on a computer requires a good rig, nothing too expensive though. I happen to have a pc with the required specs so no extra cost there. The Shuttle is a very cheap yet high quality solution for ingest. Relatively cheap. With an SSD aroundof $500 you will get approx 1hr of full HD. That's still less than 1/2 the price of the Samurai all up. I decided to get the Shuttle while waiting for the PIX, which being a recorder of compressed HD will not have the same quality, but will cost 4 times the price. If one shoots lots of live events, a Shuttle would not be an option, but if not, it's actually going to be better for some applications like high end work, blue screening, compositing etc. My experiences of production are that 1-2hrs max per day of tape is the rule, usually less for quality work. The Shuttle would probably have suited my purposes and I could have done without the PIX.

October 14th, 2011, 08:33 PM	#7
Stewart Hemley Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: UK and Japan Posts: 68	Re: Hyperdeck Shuttle I'm looking hard at the Samurai, AjaMiniPro, Pix and Shuttle and going steadily cross-eyed. On paper the Sam looks the best bang for buck, but the shuttle maybe gives the very best visual output. How about the sound aspect? The Pix seems the best followed closely by the Aja. Can't see any firm specs re the Sam sound input other than it's via jacks instead of xlr - not so good IMO. Any thoughts to help me un-cross the eyes would be most welcome. Last edited by Stewart Hemley; October 15th, 2011 at 04:56 AM. Reason: typo

October 15th, 2011, 12:41 AM	#8
Tony Partamian Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lebanon Posts: 51	Re: Hyperdeck Shuttle People always seem to love the audio pre-amps on the PIX (it's a sound device after all) but shouldn't we use the camera inputs and transfer those on HDSDI for perfect sync? And if we're already using a sound device mixer on set,do we still need those pre-amps? I know i get some sync issues on the edit workstation if i monitor throuh sdi and audio through mac audio out.

October 15th, 2011, 08:34 AM	#10
Chris Medico Inner Circle Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Efland NC, USA Posts: 2,322	Re: Hyperdeck Shuttle My understanding is retail units are on the way to the vendors. I don't know how many but there should be some people getting them in their hands next week or soon thereafter. Hopefully we will hear about it as they start to arrive. It is a very nice recorder. I'll be shooting with it on Sunday for a local production doing some behind the scenes/interviews. I know that may sound like a job not up to its value but its going to be a good no pressure test. If all goes well the first real project I'll shot with the F3/S-Log with (possibly the PIX240) external recorder is for a series pilot being shot in NC in January. __________________ http://www.LandYachtMedia.com

October 15th, 2011, 09:28 AM	#11
Stewart Hemley Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: UK and Japan Posts: 68	Re: Hyperdeck Shuttle Thanks Paul and Chris. I look forward to hearing what you think. I need one for something that might get broadcast so need the best quality sound. I'll be feeding it with a Rode NTG3, probably. So that would mean adapters for the Samurai - another bit to connect/dislodge/worry about in the heat of battle. Not sure about that.

February 27th, 2012, 05:03 PM	#12
Paul Kapp Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 111	Re: Hyperdeck Shuttle Excellent resource for cables and connectors: Laird Telemedia Laird Red One Video 3G SDI DIN RA 1.0/2.3 to BNC Adapter Cable - 1 Foot - Red Din to Din Cables at Markertek.com

March 2nd, 2012, 06:39 PM	#13
Paul Kapp Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 111	Re: Hyperdeck Shuttle Mounting the Shuttle on a camera. I invested in a Shuttle Mounting plate but discovered that it weighs 600gms which adds significantly to my cameras overall weight, and the position I wanted to mount it, on the left of the battery, would make it lopsided when going hand held. So I made a modification to the backplate of the Shuttle and screwed it to the Anton Bauer backplate which has fittings for wireless boxes etc. This greatly improved the ergonomics, placing the Shuttle where controls are easily seen and accessible. The SSD is easily removed too. Power is via a DTap to 2.5mm DC plug from the AB mount. Attached Thumbnails Attached Images

March 5th, 2012, 08:30 PM	#14
Gerald Webb Trustee Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Central Coast Australia Posts: 1,046	Re: Hyperdeck Shuttle Paul, can I ask what kind of arm you are using for your monitor, and is it sturdy? Need to get one in the next week. cheers __________________ http://vimeo.com/livewebvideo

March 6th, 2012, 08:04 AM	#15
Paul Kapp Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 111	Re: Hyperdeck Shuttle It's from a Chinese company called CoolLCD. Its good quality and very good value, very sturdy, though the the 1/4" screw needs to be tightly screwed to the camera. This would be the same for any arm no doubt. Cheapest Articulating Arm, Discount Magic Articulating Arm, Wholesale Magic Arm They couriered it over from China by DHL in 4 days for a freight low cost. They have some new ones since I bought this in July last year. Their lights look interesting too.