Workflow Question: Can BMPCC 'Film' ProRes be Losslessly Trimmed? at DVinfo.net

Kris Kohuth · February 5th, 2014, 01:00 PM

I'm considering the BMPCC for some high-ratio wildlife videography, in which I'd want to archive maybe 2 minutes out of every 60 (if I'm lucky.) Is there any way to do a cuts-only consolidation of ungraded 'keeper' footage, and losslessly 'smart-render' that version to archive.

Basically, I'm looking for a way to minimize the size of the archive, without having to burn-in exposure choices via a transcode. Is that possible, or is my thinking on this flawed?

I'm in Windows 7, and I get the impression that the humble Quicktime Player Pro might have this capability.

Is anyone using a similar workflow? And which apps have worked? Thanks.

Justin Molush · February 5th, 2014, 05:36 PM

Any legitimate NLE should be able to output a codec flavor that is lossless from the original source visually and in color depth as long as your smart about choosing your output.

In Premiere, clicking "Render at Maximum Depth" upscales the source to a full 32bit colorspace before outputting into the selected file. Just output to the same prores flavor your shooting in or higher. You can work on a timeline and render your previews in 1/4 quality of you choose to do so, but the NLE will always reference the original file unless you check "Use Previews" or whatever the equivalent is in your NLE.

John Mitchell · February 6th, 2014, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kris Kohuth

I'm considering the BMPCC for some high-ratio wildlife videography, in which I'd want to archive maybe 2 minutes out of every 60 (if I'm lucky.) Is there any way to do a cuts-only consolidation of ungraded 'keeper' footage, and losslessly 'smart-render' that version to archive.

Basically, I'm looking for a way to minimize the size of the archive, without having to burn-in exposure choices via a transcode. Is that possible, or is my thinking on this flawed?

I'm in Windows 7, and I get the impression that the humble Quicktime Player Pro might have this capability.

Is anyone using a similar workflow? And which apps have worked? Thanks.

I know there are a number of solutions for the PC including Cinemartin and free solutions using FFMPEG - however I don't think they get around recompression.

QT Pro may be able to export a QT ref but I don't know if it can create new clips -easy to try though.

Basically its why I'd like BM to use DNxHD - cross platform and free to the end user..they use it in a lot of their products but I think the pocket missed out?

Kris Kohuth · February 8th, 2014, 11:59 AM

Justin and John, Thanks.

Based on a few tests, Quicktime Pro 7 Windows does allow you to trim (via straight cuts) and re-save ProRes clips to what Apple calls a 'self-contained' movie. You can also copy and paste clips into a new, blank player window to create a rough assembly. This appears to be done as a lossless 'stream-copy' from the source, so there's no re-encoding.

Premiere Pro CS 5.5 Windows (the version I own), doesn't natively support ProRes exports, so it will always re-encode.

But, and this surprised me, the "Create a New Trimmed Project" function in Premiere's Project Manager DID trim and copy the ProRes files. So despite not having a ProRes encoder, Premiere appears able to losslessly trim the stuff for archiving. That would be great, but I'm looking for verification.

(Again, based on quick tests using short ProRes 422 HQ footage I found online.)

February 5th, 2014, 01:00 PM	#1
Kris Kohuth Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mooresville, NC Posts: 49	Workflow Question: Can BMPCC 'Film' ProRes be Losslessly Trimmed? I'm considering the BMPCC for some high-ratio wildlife videography, in which I'd want to archive maybe 2 minutes out of every 60 (if I'm lucky.) Is there any way to do a cuts-only consolidation of ungraded 'keeper' footage, and losslessly 'smart-render' that version to archive. Basically, I'm looking for a way to minimize the size of the archive, without having to burn-in exposure choices via a transcode. Is that possible, or is my thinking on this flawed? I'm in Windows 7, and I get the impression that the humble Quicktime Player Pro might have this capability. Is anyone using a similar workflow? And which apps have worked? Thanks. Last edited by Kris Kohuth; February 5th, 2014 at 02:19 PM.

February 5th, 2014, 05:36 PM	#2
Justin Molush Major Player Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Montreal Posts: 388	Re: Workflow Question: Can BMPCC 'Film' ProRes be Losslessly Trimmed? Any legitimate NLE should be able to output a codec flavor that is lossless from the original source visually and in color depth as long as your smart about choosing your output. In Premiere, clicking "Render at Maximum Depth" upscales the source to a full 32bit colorspace before outputting into the selected file. Just output to the same prores flavor your shooting in or higher. You can work on a timeline and render your previews in 1/4 quality of you choose to do so, but the NLE will always reference the original file unless you check "Use Previews" or whatever the equivalent is in your NLE. __________________ Automotive Multimedia

February 8th, 2014, 11:59 AM	#4
Kris Kohuth Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Mooresville, NC Posts: 49	Re: Workflow Question: Can BMPCC 'Film' ProRes be Losslessly Trimmed? (Windows) Justin and John, Thanks. Based on a few tests, Quicktime Pro 7 Windows does allow you to trim (via straight cuts) and re-save ProRes clips to what Apple calls a 'self-contained' movie. You can also copy and paste clips into a new, blank player window to create a rough assembly. This appears to be done as a lossless 'stream-copy' from the source, so there's no re-encoding. Premiere Pro CS 5.5 Windows (the version I own), doesn't natively support ProRes exports, so it will always re-encode. But, and this surprised me, the "Create a New Trimmed Project" function in Premiere's Project Manager DID trim and copy the ProRes files. So despite not having a ProRes encoder, Premiere appears able to losslessly trim the stuff for archiving. That would be great, but I'm looking for verification. (Again, based on quick tests using short ProRes 422 HQ footage I found online.)