Raw has arrived for Pocket Cam

Alex Anderson · November 14th, 2013, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Bruner

It's still an 8 bit world :)

OT, Bill I am very close tp you in DC area. Can you PM me on here. I tried to PM you but I do not see how to do it here. I have some questions about your Detroit video and also about possibly seeing a quick demo of the Pocket to see its low light shooting.

Thank you,
Alex

Bill Bruner · November 14th, 2013, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Rosenzweig

I agree that most of the posted BMPC videos from Pro Res have been downright embarrassing. But I don't agree that now with RAW getting the color out is harder. In fact, I think the problem is in the Pro Res log stuff. Getting color out of RAW dngs is completely different, and should be the same as getting color out of any RAW file still file, which many people have been doing for years; this is exactly the same.

I have experience with Canon EOS M RAW still and video files (Magic Lantern) using Lightroom to pull out the color, and the results are fine (accurate to real life), just like processing the still RAWs. I could not for the life of me, however, get the original BMPC Pro Res files I downloaded to give me colors that resembled anything on this earth (using Vegas Pro).

I will be trying out the BMPC exclusively using RAW.

Hi Mark - I haven't been able to save the files due to a computer glitch, but I finally figured out how to correct BMPC ProRes log color with Vegas Platinum 12.

This video, although it was intended for gamers, was key for me:

Hopefully, the interface for Vegas Pro is close enough that this is helpful to you too.

Best,

Bill

Noa Put · November 14th, 2013, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Bratcher

I'm not sure what qualifies for jaw dropping footage.

I'd say anything he has made so far: https://vimeo.com/andrewjulian Haven't seen anything close from the pocketcam so far.

Based on what I have seen it "seems" hard to get the colour out, not saying you can't get nice colour out, you can but it's not with a press of a button, there seems to be a very steep learning curve many users simply don't master, I also think many expect that the camera will give them instant cinema quality images but it doesn't, not if you don't know how to handle it, that's why I"m curious how much the raw implementation will change that. If now suddenly many will be able to produce gorgeous looking footage it means it's a lot easier to get good results and then I might be of to the store to get one myself :)

John McCully · November 14th, 2013, 04:32 AM

While I do indeed like some of Andrew Julian’s colouring I also find some, quite a lot actually, overdone and aesthetically displeasing, remembering of course that beauty is in the eye of the beholder; gorgeous looking footage to you might be hideous rubbish to me, and vice versa.

What on earth is ‘instant cinema quality’ or just ‘cinema quality’ for that matter? The thing about RAW is you can get whatever your imagination can come up with, more or less, if you really know what you are doing as a colorist, and that is perhaps not so readily accomplished with say footage off your GH3 that is not RAW. But as others have mentioned the so-called filmic, cinematic look, whatever that might be, is not just the camera no matter what Blackmagic might imply.

Go get yourself a Pocket and play around. If you don’t like it sell it. So what if you lose a couple of dollars, you can afford it. Go on; just do it – and besides, Blackmagic needs the sales :-).

Noa Put · November 14th, 2013, 05:26 PM

Yes, his footage looked over the top and it didn't look natural but it looked like how I would dream it :) Just the fact he was able to pull out such saturated beautiful colors says a lot about the power of "raw", if you are able to dig that deep. Many others have tried and just scratched the surface.

Eric Stemen · November 14th, 2013, 05:51 PM

I think that's the biggest advantage to raw. Since pretty much everything needs to be color corrected you can re-create what your memories of a place look like.

John McCully · November 14th, 2013, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

...looked like how I would dream it :) Just the fact he was able to pull out such saturated beautiful colors says a lot about the power of "raw", if you are able to dig that deep. Many others have tried and just scratched the surface.

Nightmare is how I would describe such a dream :-) There is no place on this planet that looks like some of the color 'corrected' footage I have viewed. And that's fine, whatever turns your crank.

To get garish super-saturated colours you don't need RAW. With down and dirty AVCHD files off my little pocket Sony HX20v (it really does fit in my pocket) on the Vegas Pro timeline I hit the saturation button and if you viewed the result your socks would be a gonna in a flash. You don't need RAW and certainly not the BMPCC to achieve that outcome. I just did a test; it worked horribly well.

And I should add that Andrew Julian's 'Drive Through Snow Canyon with the Blackmagic Cinema Camera' did impress me a lot however I imagine the landscapes there are quite colourful and spectacular to begin with. But realistic...maybe, maybe a bit overdone.

Noa Put · November 14th, 2013, 06:09 PM

Just cranking up the saturation doesn't do it for me unfortunately on my 8 bit camera and if you can show me some HX20v footage that would look like his "meet me in big sur" video I"d believe you but I know that is wishful thinking :)

John McCully · November 14th, 2013, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

if you can show me some HX20v footage that would look like his "meet me in big sur" video I"d believe you but I know that is wishful thinking :)

I am not about to head off to that part of the world just to show you it can be done but I do have both the BMPCC and the HX20v (plus a number of other cameras). I have run a few simple tests shooting various subject matter, outdoors only though, with the BMPCC (ProRes and now RAW), the HX20v and the EX1 side by side on tripods. I can get garish with all of the above. I'm not saying the footage is 'equal' across the three cameras, it is not, but super-saturated is easy.

My approach these days is not so much camera centric as me-and-what-I'm-doing centric. So as I head off to shoot a memorable occasion, like yesterday when the Young Endeavour, that wonderful Oz project, paid a visit to Picton for a couple of hours I was up at the lookout as she sailed into the Sound then down wharfside visiting with the 'crew' and to shoot her departure along with all the nervous excitement of her young crew as they blissfully ignorant faced a week of slogging it across the often ferocious Tasman sea. The BMPCC (RAW and ProRes) remained at home. It didn't fit with what I was doing.

And the nice footage I did capture will not be hit mercilessly with the saturate button :-)

Bill Bruner · November 16th, 2013, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Anderson

OT, Bill I am very close tp you in DC area. Can you PM me on here. I tried to PM you but I do not see how to do it here. I have some questions about your Detroit video and also about possibly seeing a quick demo of the Pocket to see its low light shooting.

Thank you,
Alex

Hi Alex - sadly (or not so sadly), I moved to California a couple of years ago and haven't updated my location on dvinfo yet :(

Sorry - I'll fix it.

As for the Detroit video, I wish I could claim it, but Ron Stratton shot it. If you click on his name, you should be able to message him on Vimeo.

Good luck!

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Alex Anderson · November 16th, 2013, 01:06 PM

I forgot you told me that before about moving to CA. :-) Thanks for the Ron Stratton info. I was born in Detroit and lived there in the burbs for fifty years.

November 14th, 2013, 04:32 AM	#19
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	Re: Raw has arrived for Pocket Cam While I do indeed like some of Andrew Julian’s colouring I also find some, quite a lot actually, overdone and aesthetically displeasing, remembering of course that beauty is in the eye of the beholder; gorgeous looking footage to you might be hideous rubbish to me, and vice versa. What on earth is ‘instant cinema quality’ or just ‘cinema quality’ for that matter? The thing about RAW is you can get whatever your imagination can come up with, more or less, if you really know what you are doing as a colorist, and that is perhaps not so readily accomplished with say footage off your GH3 that is not RAW. But as others have mentioned the so-called filmic, cinematic look, whatever that might be, is not just the camera no matter what Blackmagic might imply. Go get yourself a Pocket and play around. If you don’t like it sell it. So what if you lose a couple of dollars, you can afford it. Go on; just do it – and besides, Blackmagic needs the sales :-).

November 14th, 2013, 05:26 PM	#20
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Raw has arrived for Pocket Cam Yes, his footage looked over the top and it didn't look natural but it looked like how I would dream it :) Just the fact he was able to pull out such saturated beautiful colors says a lot about the power of "raw", if you are able to dig that deep. Many others have tried and just scratched the surface.

November 14th, 2013, 05:51 PM	#21
Eric Stemen Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 378	Re: Raw has arrived for Pocket Cam I think that's the biggest advantage to raw. Since pretty much everything needs to be color corrected you can re-create what your memories of a place look like.

November 14th, 2013, 06:09 PM	#23
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Raw has arrived for Pocket Cam Just cranking up the saturation doesn't do it for me unfortunately on my 8 bit camera and if you can show me some HX20v footage that would look like his "meet me in big sur" video I"d believe you but I know that is wishful thinking :)

November 16th, 2013, 01:06 PM	#26
Alex Anderson Major Player Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 261	Re: Raw has arrived for Pocket Cam I forgot you told me that before about moving to CA. :-) Thanks for the Ron Stratton info. I was born in Detroit and lived there in the burbs for fifty years.