Serious competition for the BMPCC

[Jim Giberti]

Ironically, I just added both cameras to our kit this week.
I got them both for their size and different abilities.
You'll never get the image out of the RX10 that you will from the BMPC.
You'll never get the range and function of the RX10 from any BM camera or DSLR, nothing but a "C" camera.

So getting both, and sticking them in our kit was kind of a no brainer for me once I got a chance to work with the footage.

And rigging the BMPC to shoot well was pretty easy - a form fit cage, a magnetized VF. Still small but easy to attach a 7" monitor. Yeah, it's basic out of the box, but it's image is a lot more than half-decent - it's world class if it's shot well.

[John McCully]

American English New Zealand English.

World class - ranked among the world's best. An over-statement perhaps. Certainly pushing it!

Half-decent down here means very good – an under-statement if you will. It’s just that we don’t like to brag :-).

I agree that in most ways the two cameras are very different machines. The problem I have with the BMPCC is that by the time I rig it to the functionality of the RX10 it surely is not a small portable device like the RX10 and when I consider the money involved in getting there I do ask myself why would I do that? I was about to head off down that path beginning with an EVF when the RX10 was announced (for similar money) and I said to myself 'hang on a minute mate'.

I do have one use that might justify keeping the BMPCC and fitting it out to improve the ergonomics and that is to slap on a Panasonic G Vario 100-300mm f4/5.6 Mega OIS Lens which will give me huge reach for shooting wildlife that none of my current cameras, including the about to arrive RX10 will give me, not by a long shot. But the BMPCC so rigged is no longer a walk-around sling it over the shoulder and head off on Shanks’ Pony for a few kilometers across the swamp. So I'm still cogitating...

For me it invariably comes down to what is it I want to shoot, what are the conditions that I must work within and then what is the best tool for the job? Thus far the BMPCC has not been that useful while the RX10 looks very promising indeed, for what I largely do.

And always YMMD.

[Jim Giberti]

I love learning the subtleties of the languages we share, and NZ is a "must visit someday" for a lot of reasons for me.

It's always about the user and the usage with these tools.
We're diverse/fortunate enough that I get to produce a lot of doc and promotional work for locations and outdoor sports - and do a lot of narrative, TV spot work.

I got the pair for their size and the extremely different purposes they fill.
Rigged out, the BMPC is still so much smaller than other narrative tools we might use like a Red or C300.
But honestly, the image is right there with them.

The R10...we'll see, but I get a feeling I'll have a blast with it on a lot of locations

[John McCully]

OK, I’m late to the party I know but my Sony Cyber-shot RX10 finally arrived. How do I like it - let me count the ways. Actually no, I shan’t do that as the attributes of this well designed and engineered little wonder have already been well documented by much smarter and more moving picture savvy people than me. However I can report that even after only a couple of sorties I am highly impressed, to say the least.

Is this new machine serious competition for the BMPCC as is the subject of this thread? In my humble opinion - that is for my intended use - the answer is no, there is no competition; the BMPCC doesn’t even get a look in - the RX10 is everything I had hoped the BMPCC would be and then some when it comes to easily delivering a great image. Which of course is not to say others won’t find that the BMPCC meets their needs.

So the question I addressed regarding whether I should purchase an EVF for the BMPCC or the RX10 (similar dollars) the answer is the RX10 - a no brainer.

Many thanks to all the folks who posted footage (there is now tons) and comments regarding the ‘camera of the year’, the RX10.

Oh, yes; I have one serious complaint; the lens cap is not able to be connected to the camera body by a cord. How could Sony be so inept? I tell ya...

OK, let me dig out my Trademe account information.

[Alex Anderson]

delete...........

[Carlos E. Martinez]

It's interesting that most comments here seem to be limited to comparing the BM Pocket with Sony photo cameras that have been recently released, and not to the Pocket's older brother, the BM 2.5K.

For me the Pocket has serious limitations for recording time (20 minutes), as I only consider the RAW option. That shouldn't be a problem with the 2.5K's internal SSD recorder, even if I don't know how many minutes they can hold for RAW video.

[John McCully]

It has been a bit of a moving target, Carlos, and I initially intended to purchase the older bigger brother. In fact I went ahead and purchased an SSD card and a reader. But then the Pocket was introduced to great fanfare and, like a lot of folks, I thought if this is a pocket-able version of the original shooting essentially the same quality, and considering the price I didn’t think twice. I switched my order to the Pocket.

And now I wish I hadn’t, hindsight is perfect of course, as the price of the original was significantly reduced, the quality with the Pocket was not up there either along with serious ergonomic limitations, and it sure didn’t fit in my pocket.

Whatever, the image produced by the Pocket is not too bad but when it comes to a walk-about shoot video and photographs, which is where my needs have evolved to, the Pocket is not in the hunt. It’s still the least expensive way to shoot raw, I believe, and for the price it does a reasonable job. Perhaps version 2 will address the ergonomic shortcomings but it will likely cost more I'm guessing.

If I wanted to shoot raw and was at square one it would be the original BMCC I would purchase.

Video-wise I can get footage every bit as pleasing to me, if not more so, with the new Sony Cyber-shot RX10 even if it isn’t raw (video that is). Taking care with exposure and in-camera settings the dynamic range I am obtaining with the RX10 is right up there with finished footage captured by the BMPCC too. And it is a joy to use.

[Jim Andrada]

I do quite a bit of audio/video for classical orchestra, chamber groups, etc. I was really interested in the Pocket cam until I started thinking about how I could handle the 1 1/2 to 2 hour performances. Thought about an external recorder on the Pocket but looking at the price by the time I would have everything rigged up, I switched to the BMCC. So far I've been more or less playing with it, but will use it for a real concert on the 28th which will be posted to You Tube sometime in January.

Of course the built in battery life is too short as well, but same for the Pocket and since I have several AB batteries for my old JVC I got a Tilta "Gold Mount" and I think I'm good to go. I don't plan to record in RAW though - ProRes should let me get a full concert and then some on the SSD and for Web delivery will be more than good enough. I think I could record RAW if I were willing to swap out the SSD at intermission like I do with the tapes on the JVC, , but for the moment I don't want to have to buy a second SSD.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Thanks John and Jim for your comments.

Since the Pocket was released I thought it was the camera for me, as it seemed to improve on both Panasonic's hacked GH2 and standard GH3.

Unfortunately I didn't foresee the Pocket's recording & battery time constraints, which prove a bit problematic for the type of work I'm doing now, which is documentaries basically based on long interviews. For that I would need something that can at least record 1 hour nonstop, be it internally or externally.

So my plans moved back to the BMCC 2.5K, which also lowered in price, and started looking for comparisons with the Pocket and other cameras. The RAW availability also seems to have put other photo cameras in a "budget" range, even the overpriced Canon 5D Mk III.

Now let me put another issue which is important for me: the camera I buy has to "look" like a photo camera, so I have to pay no taxes on the Brazilian customs here. Photo cameras are allowed to pass through with no charge, video cameras are not.

So that also puts a question mark on the BMCC 2.5K that the Pocket didn't have, as the latter does look like a photo camera. I'm not so sure about the 2.5K about that, as I found it to be a bit larger than a Canon 5D.

I'm not familiar with the Sony RX10, or any other recent releases, so I wonder how it does compare to the 2.5K, all recording RAW.

[Jim Andrada]

I know Brazil is "challenging" with regard to importing stuff. When I worked for IBM we had a factory (well, maybe more of a final assembly and test operation) in Brazil because of the high import taxes. I seem to recall that we would keep products in production there long after they had been retired everywhere else because it wan't worth the expense of qualifying new stuff. Surprisingly for a manufacturing and export driven economy, China is also a horror show re bringing in manufacturing equipment to set up a new line. We're in the middle of a major factory transfer into China right now and it's REALLY a nightmare getting the tooling into the country. So I understand your problem.

Do you expect to go somewhere and buy the camera and come back with it? If it's going to be shipped in I doubt you could get even the Pocket in as a still camera as I'm sure it would be identified as a video cam on the import documents. If not the word "Cinema" in the product name would be a tip off to the Customs folks.

The BMCC DOES have a neckstrap just like a still camera though so I guess you could sling it over your shoulder with a long lens on it.

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Hi Jim,

Yes, bureaucracy here is a burden. I believe only India can be worst! :)

That rule I mentioned is only valid when you are personally entering into Brazil, where you are exempt of paying taxes up to a value of $500, and after that you pay 50% of remaining value. Unfortunately they changed things, and now you can't declare stuff when you got out of the country, which I think is a tricky trap.

So even if you entered something and they didn't notice, when you come back you would have to "slip by" again or pay the tax.

If it was me bringing the camera, and not a friend, I would simply carry the camera as a photo one. But this is not the case, and the tax would be more than $750. In any case it's better than buying it in Europe, where price is more than 2,000 euros.

[Jim Andrada]

Wow - that's pretty expensive. And you will still need the SSD which isn't so cheap either. I got one, but will try to survive with just the one for a while. I can usually offload the video to a computer before the 440GB will fill up. I think in ProRes I can get about 4 hours on the SSD but RAW would be maybe 1 1/2 hours

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Yes, of course: the SSD and the lens.

Apparently the BMCC 2.5K package does not even include a battery (?).

Adding them up will mean $ 1,500 more to the final account.

In my case I will also want an external 7" monitor, like an Ikan, which means more $1,300.

An external cage will also be necessary, but I think I will try a DIY type for now.

Camera Cage from camera accessories from Ebay

Today I saw what seems like an affordable complete combo:

5D2 5D3 7D DSLR Rigs Video Shoulder Camera Support Stabilizer [CAME-2] - US$598.00

Though I wonder if anyone has tried it yet.

Fortunately I already have all the external audio stuff I will need in mics, mixer and Tascam external recorder.

[Jim Andrada]

The BMCC has an internal battery. My limited experience is that you might get 30 to 45 minutes out of it, Since I already had a lot of Canon still lenses and very old manual diaphragm Nikon lenses that I probably bought around 1966 I have enough "glass" for now. I also still use my720P JVC HD110 (tape!!!) cam that I run off of a set of Anton Bauer batteries, so I just needed an adapter to use them with the BMCC.

I got a Tilta cage for the cam from an Ebay store and have been pleasantly surprised by the quality for the price.as well as customer support when I had some initial problem with the included cable attaching to the adapter. Not sure how much time I'll get from the A-B battery but I suspect it will be 3 to 4 hours or more. I'll know better after I record the concert on 12/28. I let the camera just run for over an hour today and the battery was still showing plenty of charge remaining..

[Carlos E. Martinez]

Yes, time does look constrained with the internal battery. It does need an external one. Pity the DC connector is not a locking type.

Unfortunately I have no glass. So I will need a zoom and at least two lenses: suggestions?

The Tilta cages looks like a good one. Are you using an external monitor?