Serious competition for the BMPCC

[John McCully]

I’ m having a hard time actually listing my BMPCC on Trademe. This always happens; I just can’t bring myself to part with cameras I no longer use (other than a couple I gave to relatives). I’ve still got a couple of fully functional, almost as good as new, HDV cameras; a Sony HDR-FX1 and a Sony HVR-V1P - lovely cameras in their day.

Today I unpacked the BMPCC again and took it, along with the EX1, out shooting. Gorgeous weather; the best possible shooting conditions with scarcely any wind, slowly changing light as the thin high overcast dissipated and sky-blue at its best ruled the unfolding day, photons streaming in full bore.

A passerbyer called me four-eyes (with a smile) because I was using two pair of magnifying glasses to try and see the screen in order to set focus and exposure and framing on the BMPCC. I have been called worse. I did get some very nice footage with both cameras and better yet I had a great day.

Now, after having downloaded Gigabytes upon Gigabytes and compared a few clips from the cameras I believe, with a touch of mild sadness, that the BMPCC will go back in the box it came in. It’s just too much trouble to use out there, and I actually don’t want to sit at the computer for hours on end grading the footage. Furthermore, heavy pushing in post is clearly not for me; fanciful grades are of diminishing interest - the orange/teal look is so yesterday already, and blue-blacks fail to turn my crank.

I will say this – without a doubt - I have had my money’s worth; the fun of learning how to use the BMPCC and the basics of Resolve. When RAW becomes available I will in all likelihood have a shot at that just for fun. Good on Blackmagic I say, and while I conclude the BMPCCC is just not my thing I imagine it will be for lots of folks, that’s for sure.

On the other hand – the new Sony DSC-Cyber-shot RX10...(here we go again:-))...

I always carry a camera to shoot photographs anyway and when I read the specs...this is just the camera I’ve been waiting for. Looks like an extremely competent device for both worlds. Bring it on Sony!

And I’ll tell you a dirty little secret; I ain’t never going to make a movie anyhow:-)

[Chris Joy]

John, sad to see that. Your video previously posted was nice. Have you tried something like Film Convert or Magic Bullet that gives you a preset look that you can then tweak - eliminating your time in resolve? I think with the DNG's we can use Lightroom or Capture 1, which for me would be a lot easier as I have a lot more experience working with stills. There are of course a lot more really nice preset options for LR. For the sake of turnaround times, that's the route I hope will work for me.

[Mark Kenfield]

The RX10 looks terrific. I've never in my life had the slightest bit of interest in owning a 'superzoom' compact... and now I do.

That said, they'll have to pry wide-DR 10-bit ProRes from my cold dead hands before I'll shoot AVCHD again (at which point I probably won't be shooting much).

[Chris Joy]

I will say after spending a few days with the Pocket Cam, focusing is a challenge to say the least, so I can empathize with the OP's frustrations. I've handheld my Z-finder to the LCD and it doesn't help much, not enough resolution for my eyes. Of course focus magnify would make life a lot easier, but since BM's firmware updates seem to address functional issues as opposed to adding features - I'm not holding my breath. That was something I knew going in, based on the Cinema Cam complaints and what BM has done in the year since its been out. Some sort of external monitor will be necessary for me. I may try one of the Lilliput 7" LCD's or a small EVF.

[Noa Put]

Some sort of external monitor will be necessary for me

Then it's not a pocketcam anymore :)

[Wayne Avanson]

I'd be interested in the pocket camera if you're serious

[John McCully]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Then it's not a pocketcam anymore :)

The concept of a cinema camera that fits in your pocket, when you get right down to it, is a bit daft anyway. Who in their right mind would use this camera, or any small pocket camera such as the Sony RX100ll for that matter, to make a real movie? A home movie perhaps but given the BMPCC limitations even that seems a huge stretch to me. Interestingly, the sensor on the RX100ll and the RX10 is said by DxO to have a dynamic range of 12.4 and to the best of my knowledge they are a credible source of such information. I have yet to find any equally credible information regarding the advertised 13 stops of dynamic range of the BMPCC however presumably such data does exist, perhaps.

If you attach a pancake lens to the BMPCC with the inevitable zoom range limitations and you have the eyesight of a 16 year old then yes, it works as a pocketable camera that records moving pictures. In most hands the footage will in all likelihood be very shaky, as we’ve seen even in professional hands, and for many folks hardly worth wasting all that time in post pushing it around to get those outrageous colours, but it can be done, that is true.

The Sony Cyber-shot RX10 that is the subject of this thread, while certainly not pocketable nor claimed to be, is arguably as good a ‘cinema’ camera if dynamic range is where the action is, along with the alleged uncompressed 4:2:2 out. But of course that all remains to be seen. Ergonomically there is no contest; the RX10, again based on published specs alone, wins by a huge margin. Sony in their wisdom is not marketing it as a ‘cinema’ or a ‘movie’ camera but rather their headline ‘See Life in a New Light’ is little more than a weak compound pun.

But ‘Pocket Cinema Camera’ and ’13 stops of dynamic range’ sure is an attention-grabbing headline and the marketing person who came up with that deserves an extra bonus even if the concept is a tad nuts. Make no mistake as a coffee table paper weight the BMPCC is remarkably effective, everyone just wants to reach out and touch it, though a bit expensive so on second thoughts and after it has lost its skin-deep eye appeal then Trademe it might be before the market gets flooded.

[Chris Joy]

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Then it's not a pocketcam anymore :)

As mentioned, unless you're working with a pancake and don't care about audio, then the whole pocket thing is really moot. My Nex 5n or 5d3 isn't pocketable either when kitted for an actual production, a small monitor isn't a deal breaker for me. I really want to shoot raw without the whole bootflag mess that'll muck with my 5d3 when shooting stills. The level of detail and lack of banding make it worth tinkering with an efficient workflow on the Pocket. The DNG's look fantastic, I'm not writing off the Pocket Cam yet.

[Jay Bratcher]

Originally Posted by John McCully

Interestingly, the sensor on the RX100ll and the RX10 is said by DxO to have a dynamic range of 12.4 and to the best of my knowledge they are a credible source of such information. I have yet to find any equally credible information regarding the advertised 13 stops of dynamic range of the BMPCC however presumably such data does exist, perhaps.

According to DXO:
The GH1 is rated at 11.9 Evs.
The GH2 is rated at 11.3 Evs.
The 5D Mark II is rated at 11.9 Evs.
The Canon 1Dx is rated at 11.8 Evs.

I don't think any of these cameras have that kind of range for video though - at least not without the Magic Lantern raw hack. I would be careful with DXO numbers when it comes to video - I am not so sure that the sensor is the whole story...

[Noa Put]

I"ll be looking from the sidelines to see where this all is heading, in the meantime I"ll be using my gh3 during the winterperiod on several personal projects, just like I did with my nex-ea50, best way to get to know your camera better. Once the winter has passed and the pocketcam/rx10 is old news I"ll probably get one of those 2 just for fun, and probably cheaper then what they cost now. :)

Currently there is a lot of talk about the rx10 specs, I"m only interested to see what the camera can actually do in real life, not what some site says about what it's supposed to do. My feeling is that Sony are actually afraid to hand over pre-production units to experienced users who might make the image look better then their much more expensive and high end camera's. The currently available rx10 footage doesn't look very promising and I"m sure rx10 footage can look very good in the right hands, take gopro as opposite example, if they show a trailer of a new camera it looks nothing short of amazing, even much better then most users will ever achieve because they don't have a gazillion other higher end and much more expensive camera's to protect and will go out of their way to show the camera at it's very best.

[Simon Denny]

The RX10 looks great and I also found some info that suggested that the DR is 12 stops but the video images that I'm watching via YouTube seem to be a bit soft and I'm fully aware of compression etc. I hope someone gets a hold of this camera and really takes it through it's video performance soon.

[John McCully]

Every dog has its day and in due course the day comes when it no longer is top dog. That’s a given and it applies to products such as cameras too. I remain unconvinced that the RX10 poses a serious threat to Sony’s high end product line no matter how good the video delivered. The footage I have viewed said to have been generated by the RX10 is absolute rubbish and the origins questionable, so like you Noa, I await the real thing. In this regard most footage posted on Youtube is often anecdotal, at best.

As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating, and all I’m saying is that I do find the RX10 specs mouth-watering to say the least, heightened by the promise and the inherent short-comings, for me, of the BMPCC. Not exactly a dog, but not exactly a breakthrough earth-shattering piece of technological wonder either. Still, a good effort from a somewhat small company relatively new to the game.

In any event it would not surprise me in the slightest if the RX10 delivers more than the BMPCC in most every way that interests me, and for less money when all is said and done.

We shall see.

[Wacharapong Chiowanich]

One thing I'm sure the new Sony won't do the way the BMPCC did to me and a few shooters around here is suck the joy of videography out of you. It may have less than 12 stops of DR or record to the amateurish AVCHD or etc. but I have a feeling it will be a superior videographic tool in terms of joy and fun.

[Bill Bruner]

In general I don't pre-order, but I made an exception with the BMPCC because it was clear from the BMCC experience that mass production is not Blackmagic's strength. If I wanted a camera this year for less than $1000, I needed to pre-order. So far, this has been a good call.

[Bill Strehl]

Originally Posted by Bill Bruner

... and actually did a very positive blog post on it...

Glad you posted this link as I had no idea you had a blog. Lot's of good stuff.