Where to sell BMPCC

Noa Put · October 13th, 2013, 06:49 AM

If you are honest you can't really mean that a pocketcam out of the box is a run and gun camera, my gh3 and g6 with my lumix lenses offer more controll then the pocket cam does and yet I wouldn't call those run and gun camera's either, My nex-ea50 and even more my small cx730 handicams are much closer to run and gun camera's from personal experience, I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one :)

John McCully · October 13th, 2013, 02:00 PM

Interesting conversation. No, I would not chose to use my Pocket camera for run and gun shooting, generally. While the image stabilization built into the lens I have, the Panasonic 14 -140 is better than none it doesn’t even come close in effectiveness to various other cameras I have including a Sony HX20v which is also very small, very unobtrusive and the auto functions work extremely well. I will say, however, that the ability to hold a camera steady while hand-held and on the move is an operator specific capability and some folks are clearly better at it than others. Nevertheless, generally speaking the shaky footage I get using the Pocket while on the move is essentially unwatchable while in similar circumstances the HX20v footage is at least OK.

I would not call Paul Moon’s ‘New York City’ run ‘n gun but rather hand-held. I reckon I could do as well if not better using the HX20v. Not sure I could get the color he got. Not sure I’d want to but that’s stylistic choice and fair enough. In my opinion hand-held is OK (only just) with the Pocket camera while run ‘n gun is not. But let’s not quibble over definitions – just to clarify run ‘n gun for me means the camera is hand-held with the holder very much on the move while shooting.

Using a cinema camera for run ‘n gun generally makes little sense to me (presuming one has a choice of gear). When making a movie the director has all kinds of gear that he/she can use to move the camera around. Shaky video, other than perhaps war zone shooting, is generally undesirable.

I must say the comment ‘no problem shooting footage in the middle of wars with 16mm film cameras’ made me smile. If we are talking front line action with bullets flying all around and grenades exploding right and left I have to believe just staying alive was problematic let alone fiddling with camera controls. No personal experience mind you. I’ll pass on that:-)

Craig Seeman · October 16th, 2013, 01:07 PM

Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera Review
A Broadcaster's Perspective
Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera Review by Brian Hallett

If I was a photojournalist or someone who was out running and gunning a ton.. then this camera would be in my pocket. ACTUALLY, I am one of these types and I'll very likely buy one soon!

So I guess broadcast journalists and I must be wrong.

Noa Put · October 16th, 2013, 01:18 PM

If he says it, it must be true.

Craig Seeman · October 16th, 2013, 01:27 PM

It's true for some of us and that's the point.
It's a quite capable run and gun camera for those of us who never consider using auto anything in a professional shoot even as journalists.

With MFT size sensor it's easy enough to have deep focus and track by hand. It's harder with APS-C s35 size type sensor.

John McCully · October 16th, 2013, 01:40 PM

Well. Craig, if you are going to run and gun a lot then sooner or later you are going to trip and fall over just trying to read the screen and smash the Pocket in the process, and therefore you will need a backup camera. I was about to drop significant dollars on an EVF for the Pocket but then yesterday I read the specs on the new Sony RX10. Guess what; I do believe my Pocket camera might be for sale!

Noa Put · October 16th, 2013, 03:11 PM

Quote:

I do believe my Pocket camera might be for sale!

Send it my way! :) First time I hear about the rx10, looks promising.

John McCully · October 16th, 2013, 04:07 PM

Promising indeed! Three axis image stabilization, 422 uncompressed out, decent audio monitoring, the list is as long as it is impressive. It won’t fit in my pocket but then the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera doesn’t either, not with the Pany 14-140 lens attached, not that it matters to me.

I wonder how many stops of dynamic range the RX10 delivers:-)

Wacharapong Chiowanich · October 16th, 2013, 07:52 PM

In my short experience with the BMPCC I really didn't see myself making a good use of it's "cinematic" IQ if I had had to run and gun. The stabilization even with the latest Panasonic lenses was not very effective. Years behind the system in the Sony RX100/100 Mk2 compact cams for example. The LCD screen was hard to see in outdoor light, making judging exposure and peaking difficult. The screen didn't tilt meaning I had to keep it more or less at the eye level most of the time severely limiting the camera's maneuverability etc.

Maybe it's only me but I think to get the most out of this camera you need to have a bagful of supporting equipment including the audio. Then what good is it to have a tiny, compact camera when the form factor and recording capability beg for a whole set of supporting equipment. The design not only looks like a pocket still camera but the ergonomics is also like one.

John McCully · October 16th, 2013, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wacharapong Chiowanich

Then what good is it to have a tiny, compact camera when the form factor and recording capability beg for a whole set of supporting equipment.

To lighten the load is why I went for the Pocket (versus the BMCC). After seeing the early footage I didn’t see myself using it for any shooting other than on a tripod with supporting audio gear where I need audio, hand-held in a pinch when not moving whatsoever.

I agree with you; your observations are in line with my experience too. It is not an easy camera to work with, especially outdoors. The imagery produced is very nice but the ergonomics are certainly not great.

Jim Andrada · October 17th, 2013, 12:43 AM

Mind if I ask a question?

I'm thinking of getting one or two of these cameras to be used on a tripod (well, actually on a light stand) as a second and maybe a third camera for symphony orchestra recording. Main camera, manned, on tripod at rear of hall (my trusty JVC 110) and the pocket camera (or cameras) up close and high on stage each covering half the orchestra in sort of an X-Y setup to provide close-ups of sections/soloists, locked down for the duration of the concert. Sound of course dual system using Schoeps mics into Sound Devices mixer/recorder.

Final output to be in 720p, maybe doing some "zooming/panning" of the onstage cams in post

Based on your experience, how do you think the pocket cam would perform in this kind of "non-ENG" usage? I know I would need to use large memory cards (maybe swap at intermission) and external power feed.

October 13th, 2013, 06:49 AM	#16
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Where to sell BMPCC If you are honest you can't really mean that a pocketcam out of the box is a run and gun camera, my gh3 and g6 with my lumix lenses offer more controll then the pocket cam does and yet I wouldn't call those run and gun camera's either, My nex-ea50 and even more my small cx730 handicams are much closer to run and gun camera's from personal experience, I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one :)

October 13th, 2013, 02:00 PM	#17
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	Re: Where to sell BMPCC Interesting conversation. No, I would not chose to use my Pocket camera for run and gun shooting, generally. While the image stabilization built into the lens I have, the Panasonic 14 -140 is better than none it doesn’t even come close in effectiveness to various other cameras I have including a Sony HX20v which is also very small, very unobtrusive and the auto functions work extremely well. I will say, however, that the ability to hold a camera steady while hand-held and on the move is an operator specific capability and some folks are clearly better at it than others. Nevertheless, generally speaking the shaky footage I get using the Pocket while on the move is essentially unwatchable while in similar circumstances the HX20v footage is at least OK. I would not call Paul Moon’s ‘New York City’ run ‘n gun but rather hand-held. I reckon I could do as well if not better using the HX20v. Not sure I could get the color he got. Not sure I’d want to but that’s stylistic choice and fair enough. In my opinion hand-held is OK (only just) with the Pocket camera while run ‘n gun is not. But let’s not quibble over definitions – just to clarify run ‘n gun for me means the camera is hand-held with the holder very much on the move while shooting. Using a cinema camera for run ‘n gun generally makes little sense to me (presuming one has a choice of gear). When making a movie the director has all kinds of gear that he/she can use to move the camera around. Shaky video, other than perhaps war zone shooting, is generally undesirable. I must say the comment ‘no problem shooting footage in the middle of wars with 16mm film cameras’ made me smile. If we are talking front line action with bullets flying all around and grenades exploding right and left I have to believe just staying alive was problematic let alone fiddling with camera controls. No personal experience mind you. I’ll pass on that:-)

October 16th, 2013, 01:07 PM	#18
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: Where to sell BMPCC Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera Review A Broadcaster's Perspective Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera Review by Brian Hallett If I was a photojournalist or someone who was out running and gunning a ton..* then this camera would be in my pocket. ACTUALLY, I am one of these types and I'll very likely buy one soon!* So I guess broadcast journalists and I must be wrong.

October 16th, 2013, 01:18 PM	#19
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: Where to sell BMPCC If he says it, it must be true.

October 16th, 2013, 01:27 PM	#20
Craig Seeman Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brooklyn, NY, USA Posts: 3,841	Re: Where to sell BMPCC It's true for some of us and that's the point. It's a quite capable run and gun camera for those of us who never consider using auto anything in a professional shoot even as journalists. With MFT size sensor it's easy enough to have deep focus and track by hand. It's harder with APS-C s35 size type sensor.

October 16th, 2013, 01:40 PM	#21
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	Re: Where to sell BMPCC Well. Craig, if you are going to run and gun a lot then sooner or later you are going to trip and fall over just trying to read the screen and smash the Pocket in the process, and therefore you will need a backup camera. I was about to drop significant dollars on an EVF for the Pocket but then yesterday I read the specs on the new Sony RX10. Guess what; I do believe my Pocket camera might be for sale!

October 16th, 2013, 04:07 PM	#23
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	Re: Where to sell BMPCC Promising indeed! Three axis image stabilization, 422 uncompressed out, decent audio monitoring, the list is as long as it is impressive. It won’t fit in my pocket but then the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera doesn’t either, not with the Pany 14-140 lens attached, not that it matters to me. I wonder how many stops of dynamic range the RX10 delivers:-)

October 16th, 2013, 07:52 PM	#24
Wacharapong Chiowanich Major Player Join Date: May 2008 Location: Bangkok, Thailand Posts: 400	Re: Where to sell BMPCC In my short experience with the BMPCC I really didn't see myself making a good use of it's "cinematic" IQ if I had had to run and gun. The stabilization even with the latest Panasonic lenses was not very effective. Years behind the system in the Sony RX100/100 Mk2 compact cams for example. The LCD screen was hard to see in outdoor light, making judging exposure and peaking difficult. The screen didn't tilt meaning I had to keep it more or less at the eye level most of the time severely limiting the camera's maneuverability etc. Maybe it's only me but I think to get the most out of this camera you need to have a bagful of supporting equipment including the audio. Then what good is it to have a tiny, compact camera when the form factor and recording capability beg for a whole set of supporting equipment. The design not only looks like a pocket still camera but the ergonomics is also like one.

October 17th, 2013, 12:43 AM	#26
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	Re: Where to sell BMPCC Mind if I ask a question? I'm thinking of getting one or two of these cameras to be used on a tripod (well, actually on a light stand) as a second and maybe a third camera for symphony orchestra recording. Main camera, manned, on tripod at rear of hall (my trusty JVC 110) and the pocket camera (or cameras) up close and high on stage each covering half the orchestra in sort of an X-Y setup to provide close-ups of sections/soloists, locked down for the duration of the concert. Sound of course dual system using Schoeps mics into Sound Devices mixer/recorder. Final output to be in 720p, maybe doing some "zooming/panning" of the onstage cams in post Based on your experience, how do you think the pocket cam would perform in this kind of "non-ENG" usage? I know I would need to use large memory cards (maybe swap at intermission) and external power feed.