New Pocket Cam footage

John McCully · July 20th, 2013, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Brawley

You love pushing this conspiracy barrow don't you ?

jb

Marketing plan: determining the target market and ascertaining the market needs. Understanding the competition strength and weaknesses, designing a product to meet the needs especially capitalizing on the gaps in the competition's performance, putting in place promotion material to support the product introduction... and so it goes. All successful companies do it and my guess is that Blackmagic do it too, and in this instance perhaps quite successfully eh!

Conspiracy theory: I noticed a ship in the Picton harbour with the name Austral Carina. I thought, Austral short for Australia, and furthermore I once knew a girl called Carina, from Venezuela. Ah ha, I’ve got it: the Aussies have formed a partnership with the Venezuelans to take over New Zealand and this ship is here doing under-cover reconnaissance!

Don’t even try, John, I’m up to your tricks, ha ha. You should also know that Carina was ‘difficult’, problematic to say the least, and the Kiwis are no push-over so if I were you I would flag that completely:-)

Don’t be defensive John, it’s all good fun, talking about this stuff while we wait, don’t you think?

Dozens of earthquakes here today. One servere, four strong, a bunch of moderates and a whole lot of little tremors. Such fun living on a fault line.

Bob Hart · July 21st, 2013, 03:55 AM

Oh dear. The flock IS becoming a little restless.

To make everybody satisfied, shall I ping off some footage on the SI2K with an ultracon filter in front of the lens, export it as cinema DNG from DVR2, and upload as RAW purportedly from the BMCC? Would anyone really be any the wiser?

The passage of time and the consignment of features when they are matured and ready is probably the best move. BM are probably still a little tender after the sensor supply problem and the bad press that ensued.

Those of us who are interested should perhaps give them the time and space to get it right, lest they become fed up instead and just decide to stick with switchers, mixers and the like.

With Adobe's decision relating to Creative Cloud, my greater interest is in seeing if Blackmagic has a crack at adding an editing feature set to Resolve. If such were to come to pass, it would be pigheaven on roids for me. The camera would be a bonus.

Noa Put · July 24th, 2013, 12:32 AM

Don't expect to get specific data, the biggest confusion comes from people that don't know either and just guess themselves, only if those people are the ones that have direct access to the camera or have direct contact with BMD what they say has a much bigger impact on the rumor mill.

Noa Put · August 30th, 2013, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Brawley

The camera hasn't shipped yet.

Why don't you wait until it has and then see if it's for you.

jb

The first uservideos are starting to appear now and the first thing I notice is some horrendous blooming artifacts on car headlights, streetlights, sun reflecting in the water... Not sure if it's firmware fixable or if it's a hardware/sensor issue. Now we know why there was no evening time demo footage before the camera was released to the public :) So I"m glad I waited to know this is not the camera for me, unless they are able to fix the blooming issues then I might reconsider.

John Brawley · August 30th, 2013, 12:15 PM

[QUOTE=Noa Put;1810539]TNow we know why there was no evening time demo footage before the camera was released to the public :) [QUOTE]

https://vimeo.com/m/67562461

Once again you've stumbled into a thread you have no actual knowledge about.

JB

Noa Put · August 30th, 2013, 12:29 PM

you got me there :D let me rephrase that remark: "Now we know why there was no evening time demo footage without any visible blooming artefacts before the camera was released to the public :)

Unless you had a special camera, or unless those users so far are doing something wrong in camera, have you never noticed the camera did produce these obvious artefacts?

Noa Put · August 30th, 2013, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Brawley

Once again you've stumbled into a thread you have no actual knowledge about.

Ok John pls look at below examples and tell me what I don't know about, I only like to know if this is a user error or not.

This video, in the beginning the sun reflection on the cars and at 01:14 the sun has turned black.

This video, the big blobs at 00:53 from the sunreflection in the water.

This video at 02:53, the car's headlights

this video, the obvious black spots in the harsh highlights

Jeff Troiano · August 30th, 2013, 12:54 PM

I've read this thread, and about 5 of the 7 pages (as of this morning) of the thread over in the BMD forum. I understand this is an issue, but why are people so angry? Is Blackmagic all of a sudden the only camera manufacturer in the world? I have not received my preorder and don't have any intentions of canceling either. If people are unhappy with what they are seeing online, what is stopping them from canceling or not buying? Hopefully this is a "working the kinks out" phase. But come on people, if it turns you off so much, buy something else.

I don't want say this is a non issue, because it is. But we are talking about moving pictures. I once owned a DLP front projector, and people started obsessing over the "rainbow" effect. Took me about two days to finally notice it, and about 2 months to try and stop seeing it. I hope they figure out a solution, but I didn't notice this prior to it being pointed out to me, and because I'm aware of it, I see it easily now.

Noa Put · August 30th, 2013, 12:59 PM

Quote:

But come on people, if it turns you off so much, buy something else

For me that's not the issue, I was smart enough to wait until the first uservideos appeared, I can't understand why this blooming artifact (or "white orbs") was never mentioned or noticed, for me it would render this camera useless, it probably would not show in most shots but from the look of it it can be quite nasty when it does. I only would like to know if it is a wrong setting in camera or something wrong done in post, but I"m sure John can answer this question.

Jon Fairhurst · August 30th, 2013, 01:24 PM

Early versions of the 5D2 had similar black spots in highlights on photos. Canon released a firmware fix pretty quickly. Hopefully, BM will solve this bit wraparound issue quickly as well.

Noa Put · August 30th, 2013, 01:26 PM

You can fix the blackspots in post, that I know, but the white orb blooming thing is detail that is lost, no way to recover that, unless someone knows a magical formula for that?.

Jon Fairhurst · August 30th, 2013, 01:43 PM

Yeah, that's odd.

At first I was thinking that this might be due to a combination of diffusion and the lack of a smooth S-curve at the top end. Now I'm wondering if the sensor isn't leaking charge to neighboring pixels when it is oversaturated. If that's the case, one would need to choke the light to the sensor and add gain in the middle regions (with a nice S-curve), which could add noise.

Hopefully, firmware can fix this. It's not pretty.

Back to the 5D2... at NAB, we did a shot where we exposed to see the side/back of a camera that was quite dark and as we moved the view, we captured some of the lit set. The set was totally blown out, but the overall result was still quite pleasing. That shot led me to believe that the 5D2 became popular not only for its large format and nice skin tones but because of the way it handles highlights. Things might blow out but they don't get ugly.

By contrast, those orbs and dots are not pretty.

Eric Stemen · August 30th, 2013, 01:54 PM

The orb thing kind of sucks, but if it doesn't show up in raw I don't care...I have no intention of shooting ProRes with it.
I remember dpreview or at least it's members making a big deal out of orbs as well on the Fujifilm X10. Fuji tried a firmware fix and it looks like they finally had to resort to having a new sensor put in.

Firmware fix
Fujifilm X10 'Orbs' Investigated. Does the Firmware Fix Work?: Digital Photography Review

New Sensor
Fujifilm provides modified-sensor X10 to address white-orb issue: Digital Photography Review

I wonder if shooting at a higher ISO would mask the problem like it did with the X10.

John McCully · August 30th, 2013, 02:46 PM

Yes Noa, you were indeed smart enough to wait and you did the right thing, in my opinion. And I recently congratulated myself on cancelling my pre-order and obtaining a full refund of the deposit. Then along came the white orbs and black spots not to mention a huge price drop on the BMCC. The next thing we know the drama queens on both sides of the situation get all bent out of shape and the on-line (not here thank heavens) frothing gets going full bore, and it still is.

A few days ago while out and about with a couple of cameras, the BMPCC the last thing on my mind, I got a call on my cell phone. It’s a fellow from the reseller I originally placed my order with but a different employee and he tells me my camera has arrived, number two on the list, ten more in the line-up, and how do I want to pay for it. He didn’t get the cancellation memo and my name had not been removed even as my deposit was refunded.

To cut to the chase I went ahead and the camera arrived yesterday. My dear old mother would say I have more money than sense. She’s probably correct and I am certainly not wealthy. None of the myriad of cards I have worked and it will be early next week before a suitable one arrives. In the meantime it sure is pretty to look at and nice in the hands.

Let me hasten to add; I am not a working professional nor am I about to make a movie. I’m a retired ageing layabout to be taken about as seriously as I take capturing moving pictures. I’m in it for the fun, that’s all. And fooling around with this ‘different’ little charmer looks like it will be fun enough for a while at least. And in due course I shall probably have an opinion about the footage I can coax out of it and about the somewhat involved post-production business that must follow.

If I was running out the door to shoot a wedding, a documentary, a corporate piece, a promo, or any paying proposition then the little BMPCC would stay at home, for now.

My predictions: the orbs and spots will probably get fixed, the back orders filled, and 13 stops of dynamic range will be relegated to its rightful place as just one of the factors to consider and not the end all and the be all as some would have us believe.

Content is still king and queen and probably always will be. And for this old kid the BMPCC is just a new toy to play with.

Noa Put · August 30th, 2013, 03:07 PM

I"m sure they will fix the orb thing at some time, maybe it's just something the users are doing wrong, or maybe a version II will have a newer and better sensor, time or John will tell I suppose. I"m also sure they will add the promised raw functionality once they have got their delivery schedule under control or maybe they will remove the raw capability statement on the box they ship it in. :). All joking aside, I"ll be watching more user videos, the camera still has my interest but my new purchased panasonic gh3 and g6 will keep me occupied for a while, long enough I hope for the bmcpc to reach it's full potential.

July 21st, 2013, 03:55 AM	#17
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	Re: New Pocket Cam footage Oh dear. The flock IS becoming a little restless. To make everybody satisfied, shall I ping off some footage on the SI2K with an ultracon filter in front of the lens, export it as cinema DNG from DVR2, and upload as RAW purportedly from the BMCC? Would anyone really be any the wiser? The passage of time and the consignment of features when they are matured and ready is probably the best move. BM are probably still a little tender after the sensor supply problem and the bad press that ensued. Those of us who are interested should perhaps give them the time and space to get it right, lest they become fed up instead and just decide to stick with switchers, mixers and the like. With Adobe's decision relating to Creative Cloud, my greater interest is in seeing if Blackmagic has a crack at adding an editing feature set to Resolve. If such were to come to pass, it would be pigheaven on roids for me. The camera would be a bonus.

July 24th, 2013, 12:32 AM	#18
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: New Pocket Cam footage Don't expect to get specific data, the biggest confusion comes from people that don't know either and just guess themselves, only if those people are the ones that have direct access to the camera or have direct contact with BMD what they say has a much bigger impact on the rumor mill.

August 30th, 2013, 12:15 PM	#20
John Brawley Cinematographer Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 33	Re: New Pocket Cam footage [QUOTE=Noa Put;1810539]TNow we know why there was no evening time demo footage before the camera was released to the public :) [QUOTE] https://vimeo.com/m/67562461 Once again you've stumbled into a thread you have no actual knowledge about. JB

August 30th, 2013, 12:29 PM	#21
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: New Pocket Cam footage you got me there :D let me rephrase that remark: "Now we know why there was no evening time demo footage without any visible blooming artefacts before the camera was released to the public :) Unless you had a special camera, or unless those users so far are doing something wrong in camera, have you never noticed the camera did produce these obvious artefacts?

August 30th, 2013, 12:54 PM	#23
Jeff Troiano Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Nashville TN Posts: 480	Re: New Pocket Cam footage I've read this thread, and about 5 of the 7 pages (as of this morning) of the thread over in the BMD forum. I understand this is an issue, but why are people so angry? Is Blackmagic all of a sudden the only camera manufacturer in the world? I have not received my preorder and don't have any intentions of canceling either. If people are unhappy with what they are seeing online, what is stopping them from canceling or not buying? Hopefully this is a "working the kinks out" phase. But come on people, if it turns you off so much, buy something else. I don't want say this is a non issue, because it is. But we are talking about moving pictures. I once owned a DLP front projector, and people started obsessing over the "rainbow" effect. Took me about two days to finally notice it, and about 2 months to try and stop seeing it. I hope they figure out a solution, but I didn't notice this prior to it being pointed out to me, and because I'm aware of it, I see it easily now. __________________ You motorboating SOB!

August 30th, 2013, 01:24 PM	#25
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: New Pocket Cam footage Early versions of the 5D2 had similar black spots in highlights on photos. Canon released a firmware fix pretty quickly. Hopefully, BM will solve this bit wraparound issue quickly as well. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

August 30th, 2013, 01:26 PM	#26
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: New Pocket Cam footage You can fix the blackspots in post, that I know, but the white orb blooming thing is detail that is lost, no way to recover that, unless someone knows a magical formula for that?.

August 30th, 2013, 01:43 PM	#27
Jon Fairhurst Inner Circle Join Date: May 2006 Location: Camas, WA, USA Posts: 5,513	Re: New Pocket Cam footage Yeah, that's odd. At first I was thinking that this might be due to a combination of diffusion and the lack of a smooth S-curve at the top end. Now I'm wondering if the sensor isn't leaking charge to neighboring pixels when it is oversaturated. If that's the case, one would need to choke the light to the sensor and add gain in the middle regions (with a nice S-curve), which could add noise. Hopefully, firmware can fix this. It's not pretty. Back to the 5D2... at NAB, we did a shot where we exposed to see the side/back of a camera that was quite dark and as we moved the view, we captured some of the lit set. The set was totally blown out, but the overall result was still quite pleasing. That shot led me to believe that the 5D2 became popular not only for its large format and nice skin tones but because of the way it handles highlights. Things might blow out but they don't get ugly. By contrast, those orbs and dots are not pretty. __________________ Jon Fairhurst

August 30th, 2013, 01:54 PM	#28
Eric Stemen Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 378	Re: New Pocket Cam footage The orb thing kind of sucks, but if it doesn't show up in raw I don't care...I have no intention of shooting ProRes with it. I remember dpreview or at least it's members making a big deal out of orbs as well on the Fujifilm X10. Fuji tried a firmware fix and it looks like they finally had to resort to having a new sensor put in. Firmware fix Fujifilm X10 'Orbs' Investigated. Does the Firmware Fix Work?: Digital Photography Review New Sensor Fujifilm provides modified-sensor X10 to address white-orb issue: Digital Photography Review I wonder if shooting at a higher ISO would mask the problem like it did with the X10.

August 30th, 2013, 02:46 PM	#29
John McCully Major Player Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: South Island, New Zealand Posts: 609 Images: 2	Re: New Pocket Cam footage Yes Noa, you were indeed smart enough to wait and you did the right thing, in my opinion. And I recently congratulated myself on cancelling my pre-order and obtaining a full refund of the deposit. Then along came the white orbs and black spots not to mention a huge price drop on the BMCC. The next thing we know the drama queens on both sides of the situation get all bent out of shape and the on-line (not here thank heavens) frothing gets going full bore, and it still is. A few days ago while out and about with a couple of cameras, the BMPCC the last thing on my mind, I got a call on my cell phone. It’s a fellow from the reseller I originally placed my order with but a different employee and he tells me my camera has arrived, number two on the list, ten more in the line-up, and how do I want to pay for it. He didn’t get the cancellation memo and my name had not been removed even as my deposit was refunded. To cut to the chase I went ahead and the camera arrived yesterday. My dear old mother would say I have more money than sense. She’s probably correct and I am certainly not wealthy. None of the myriad of cards I have worked and it will be early next week before a suitable one arrives. In the meantime it sure is pretty to look at and nice in the hands. Let me hasten to add; I am not a working professional nor am I about to make a movie. I’m a retired ageing layabout to be taken about as seriously as I take capturing moving pictures. I’m in it for the fun, that’s all. And fooling around with this ‘different’ little charmer looks like it will be fun enough for a while at least. And in due course I shall probably have an opinion about the footage I can coax out of it and about the somewhat involved post-production business that must follow. If I was running out the door to shoot a wedding, a documentary, a corporate piece, a promo, or any paying proposition then the little BMPCC would stay at home, for now. My predictions: the orbs and spots will probably get fixed, the back orders filled, and 13 stops of dynamic range will be relegated to its rightful place as just one of the factors to consider and not the end all and the be all as some would have us believe. Content is still king and queen and probably always will be. And for this old kid the BMPCC is just a new toy to play with.

August 30th, 2013, 03:07 PM	#30
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,510	Re: New Pocket Cam footage I"m sure they will fix the orb thing at some time, maybe it's just something the users are doing wrong, or maybe a version II will have a newer and better sensor, time or John will tell I suppose. I"m also sure they will add the promised raw functionality once they have got their delivery schedule under control or maybe they will remove the raw capability statement on the box they ship it in. :). All joking aside, I"ll be watching more user videos, the camera still has my interest but my new purchased panasonic gh3 and g6 will keep me occupied for a while, long enough I hope for the bmcpc to reach it's full potential.