Blackmagic Pocket Cam lens?

John Brawley · June 28th, 2013, 07:51 AM

Hi bob.

I've tried many PL mount lenses. The OPTARS are nice and I remember them fondly from my super 16 days.

Superspeeds are good too. I've even had a 150-600 Centruy / Canon with a doubler ! Rolling shutter was pretty bad though.

JB

John McCully · June 28th, 2013, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Brawley

I have this lens on the pocket cinema camera often.

It's a very serviceable lens and crazy cheap. The IS works well too.

Aside from the slower speed in terms of aperture it's great value if you want a *starter* lens. It's the first m4/3 zoom I've ever bought. I own lot's of m4/3 primes (for my Olympus m4/3).

jb

Many thanks for your comments; most helpful. Based on your input this will be my starter lens for the BMPCC. Slower speed is not a beg deal for me as outdoor decent weather shooting is my intended use, for now.

Cheers.

Bob Hart · June 28th, 2013, 11:37 PM

John.

Thanks for that. A DoP friend and neighbour over here prefers to remain nameless as he is taking a break from the deeper industry for family commitment reasons. He sold off his 35mm film camera and lens set, something he now regrets as he would have liked to try the lenses with the Canon DLSR he has.

We were investigating the practicality of adapting an Angenieux 25mm - 250mm ( older type ) that I have left over from groundglass adaptor times and some older Cooke Speed Panchro Series 2 which he had not sold, to live with the Canon. Only the Angenieux can work with the camera with a custom mount, an expense the lens probably does not justify

For the small short term assignments he takes on in the meantime, the BM pocket cam has since piqued his interest. He saw the camera and talked with one of the BM reps at Broadcast Asia recently. He has not been able to find any raw camera footage to play with in Resolve.

Resolve is a toolset he is familiar with from his 35mm film days of shooting commercials. He was much encouraged by BM releasing it at an affordable level and being able to grade SI2K vision to his satisfaction, the first time in electronic imaging since his last film job.

He anticipates that the BM pocket cam footage with good S16 lenses will be comparable with and perhaps a little better to deal with than the SI2K footage.

Subjectively, would you regard the Super16mm lenses as being a potentially better performer than the more recent micro 4/3 lenses which you have used in your tests? The S16 lenses seem to yield their best sharpness in the approximate zone T2 - T4.

The 35mm stills lenses seem sweeter in the region f4 - f11. The newer micro 4/3 lenses I have no experience with.

I already have the Optar set for the SI2K, which he would use with a PL-Adaptor if he buys in the BM camera. For the small corporates he still does, the vision needs to be the best it can be.

My imagining of a lightweight kit for the BM camera would be to make a PL-Mount adaptor that is the spine of the support structure with rod mounts/tripod base with BM mount on rear and PL-Mount on front.

The BM camera would be supported by its own mount to the spine and not bear any other mechanical loads other than forces from operating camera controls and inserting cables etc..

BM might consider commissioning such an accessory for direct sale with the camera as a kit. This might risk cannabalising the sales of the original BM camera.

My own thoughts. What a pity this was not around in 2009.

John Brawley · June 28th, 2013, 11:56 PM

Hello Bob.

The 25-250 Angenieux (HR or HP?) should work fine on the pocket using a m4/3 adaptor. Perhaps consider something like the Hot Rod version which is very well made and has a rails support which would make sense for the way you're thinking of configuring the camera.

BMD have not released or allowed me to release any RAW footage as yet from the pocket.

There is of course RAW footage from the BMCC floating around and you can rest assured that the result will be very similar from the pocket, with a slight hit to resolution being the main difference.

Lens selection is such a highly subjective thing. Some like the perfection and cleanness of the newer zeiss. Some like the personality of the older lenses, especially the Cookes. Generally vintage lenses, be they Super 16 or 35mm or stills look really nice and give you a way of getting a "look" in camera that's a bit unique. They are generally softer and tend to flare more easily.

With the unforgiving sharpness of modern digital cameras, things that used to get hidden like flatness of field and chromatic aberration tend to show up more readily. Also, because we tend to shoot in higher contrast lighting situations, because the cameras have so much more DR, we can get away with, this also tends to show up flaws like CA much more.

To be honest, though technically you can use m4/3 lenses on the pocket, they wouldn't really be my own go to simply because I can't stand focus by wire and electronic IRIS. So it's great that I can HAVE those lenses, I just wouldn't choose them all things being equal for simple practical reasons.

That's just me though and I'm sure there are many that will make them work fine for what they need to do.

The Si2K is a lovely camera for it's time. I used it on several drama shoots and it's look reminds me a lot of the BMCC. These days the DR is a bit limiting and of course that terrible sensor crop ;-)

I'm not sure BMD will be getting into accessories anytime soon. Much better to leave it to aftermarket parties that can then design different solutions for different user needs....

jb

Bob Hart · June 29th, 2013, 12:29 AM

John.

Thanks once more for your response. I have sent a dvinfo.net email enquiry which your last reply has already anwered. You need not reply to that message unless you choose to.

In it, there is a message which identifies the cinematographer and a link to his youtube channel via a recent lighting test. The other clips are a reprise of his S.E.A. commercial work posted mainly for reminiscence of former members of production crews there.

If BM were to consider making test footage available in the future, he would be very interested.

Jeff Troiano · June 29th, 2013, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Brawley

I have this lens on the pocket cinema camera often.

It's a very serviceable lens and crazy cheap. The IS works well too.

Aside from the slower speed in terms of aperture it's great value if you want a *starter* lens. It's the first m4/3 zoom I've ever bought. I own lot's of m4/3 primes (for my Olympus m4/3).

jb

Hey John, any new footage being released anytime soon?

Ryan Jones · July 1st, 2013, 05:46 AM

Here's an interesting new choice: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/981710-REG/rokinon_16m_m43_16mm_f2_0_ultra_wide_angle.html
I'm not familiar with PL lenses, need to look into it some more.

Ryan Jones · July 2nd, 2013, 06:06 AM

Any experts on C-Mount Super 16mm here?

I preordered the Pocket Cam with dreams of cheap lenses, and so far it isn't working out that way...

Jeff Troiano · July 2nd, 2013, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Jones

Any experts on C-Mount Super 16mm here?

I preordered the Pocket Cam with dreams of cheap lenses, and so far it isn't working out that way...

I'm no expert on any kind of lens. Have invested in som mtf lens myself. But came across this Facebook group that might be of interest to those wanting to know about C-mount lens.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/cmountm43

Stephen Brenner · October 17th, 2013, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evan Donn

What's the situation with the older c-mount television zooms? There seem to be quite a few that are wide (10-15mm range), fast (< f/2.0), and have a decent zoom range(5-10x) with constant aperture. I found this example shot on an m4/3, just by eye it looks like the vignetting would be completely eliminated by the time it's cropped down to s16 sensor area:

GH1 1st test with C mount CCTV zoom 17-102mm 1:2.0 on Vimeo

I've got the 17-102 that I use with the pocket camera. There is a world of difference in terms of smooth zoom operation compared to the practically useless 14-42. The image quality is decent but not quite as sharp as some of my nikon glass. If you want parfocal performance, you would need some way to adjust the midline to the proper position. The Yeenon c-mount to mft adapter allows that.

Phil Goetz · October 17th, 2013, 09:44 AM

One of our BMPCC cameras would not work with two different Lumix 25 F1.4 lenses (H-X025). It didn't snap into place. We had a Lumix 12-35 F2.8 (H-HS12035) work on one BMPCC but not on another. I just keep thinking... long live Rokinon!

Omega - Packages - Omega Broadcast - Single Packages - Canon EF Mount Lens Kit

These lenses have a smooth aperture, no clicks, built in focus ring...

June 28th, 2013, 07:51 AM	#16
John Brawley Cinematographer Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 33	Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cam lens? Hi bob. I've tried many PL mount lenses. The OPTARS are nice and I remember them fondly from my super 16 days. Superspeeds are good too. I've even had a 150-600 Centruy / Canon with a doubler ! Rolling shutter was pretty bad though. JB

June 28th, 2013, 11:37 PM	#18
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cam lens? John. Thanks for that. A DoP friend and neighbour over here prefers to remain nameless as he is taking a break from the deeper industry for family commitment reasons. He sold off his 35mm film camera and lens set, something he now regrets as he would have liked to try the lenses with the Canon DLSR he has. We were investigating the practicality of adapting an Angenieux 25mm - 250mm ( older type ) that I have left over from groundglass adaptor times and some older Cooke Speed Panchro Series 2 which he had not sold, to live with the Canon. Only the Angenieux can work with the camera with a custom mount, an expense the lens probably does not justify For the small short term assignments he takes on in the meantime, the BM pocket cam has since piqued his interest. He saw the camera and talked with one of the BM reps at Broadcast Asia recently. He has not been able to find any raw camera footage to play with in Resolve. Resolve is a toolset he is familiar with from his 35mm film days of shooting commercials. He was much encouraged by BM releasing it at an affordable level and being able to grade SI2K vision to his satisfaction, the first time in electronic imaging since his last film job. He anticipates that the BM pocket cam footage with good S16 lenses will be comparable with and perhaps a little better to deal with than the SI2K footage. Subjectively, would you regard the Super16mm lenses as being a potentially better performer than the more recent micro 4/3 lenses which you have used in your tests? The S16 lenses seem to yield their best sharpness in the approximate zone T2 - T4. The 35mm stills lenses seem sweeter in the region f4 - f11. The newer micro 4/3 lenses I have no experience with. I already have the Optar set for the SI2K, which he would use with a PL-Adaptor if he buys in the BM camera. For the small corporates he still does, the vision needs to be the best it can be. My imagining of a lightweight kit for the BM camera would be to make a PL-Mount adaptor that is the spine of the support structure with rod mounts/tripod base with BM mount on rear and PL-Mount on front. The BM camera would be supported by its own mount to the spine and not bear any other mechanical loads other than forces from operating camera controls and inserting cables etc.. BM might consider commissioning such an accessory for direct sale with the camera as a kit. This might risk cannabalising the sales of the original BM camera. My own thoughts. What a pity this was not around in 2009. Last edited by Bob Hart; June 28th, 2013 at 11:52 PM. Reason: error

June 28th, 2013, 11:56 PM	#19
John Brawley Cinematographer Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 33	Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cam lens? Hello Bob. The 25-250 Angenieux (HR or HP?) should work fine on the pocket using a m4/3 adaptor. Perhaps consider something like the Hot Rod version which is very well made and has a rails support which would make sense for the way you're thinking of configuring the camera. BMD have not released or allowed me to release any RAW footage as yet from the pocket. There is of course RAW footage from the BMCC floating around and you can rest assured that the result will be very similar from the pocket, with a slight hit to resolution being the main difference. Lens selection is such a highly subjective thing. Some like the perfection and cleanness of the newer zeiss. Some like the personality of the older lenses, especially the Cookes. Generally vintage lenses, be they Super 16 or 35mm or stills look really nice and give you a way of getting a "look" in camera that's a bit unique. They are generally softer and tend to flare more easily. With the unforgiving sharpness of modern digital cameras, things that used to get hidden like flatness of field and chromatic aberration tend to show up more readily. Also, because we tend to shoot in higher contrast lighting situations, because the cameras have so much more DR, we can get away with, this also tends to show up flaws like CA much more. To be honest, though technically you can use m4/3 lenses on the pocket, they wouldn't really be my own go to simply because I can't stand focus by wire and electronic IRIS. So it's great that I can HAVE those lenses, I just wouldn't choose them all things being equal for simple practical reasons. That's just me though and I'm sure there are many that will make them work fine for what they need to do. The Si2K is a lovely camera for it's time. I used it on several drama shoots and it's look reminds me a lot of the BMCC. These days the DR is a bit limiting and of course that terrible sensor crop ;-) I'm not sure BMD will be getting into accessories anytime soon. Much better to leave it to aftermarket parties that can then design different solutions for different user needs.... jb

June 29th, 2013, 12:29 AM	#20
Bob Hart Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: PERTH. W.A. AUSTRALIA. Posts: 4,476	Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cam lens? John. Thanks once more for your response. I have sent a dvinfo.net email enquiry which your last reply has already anwered. You need not reply to that message unless you choose to. In it, there is a message which identifies the cinematographer and a link to his youtube channel via a recent lighting test. The other clips are a reprise of his S.E.A. commercial work posted mainly for reminiscence of former members of production crews there. If BM were to consider making test footage available in the future, he would be very interested.

July 1st, 2013, 05:46 AM	#22
Ryan Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 124	Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cam lens? Here's an interesting new choice: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/981710-REG/rokinon_16m_m43_16mm_f2_0_ultra_wide_angle.html I'm not familiar with PL lenses, need to look into it some more.

July 2nd, 2013, 06:06 AM	#23
Ryan Jones Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 124	Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cam lens? Any experts on C-Mount Super 16mm here? I preordered the Pocket Cam with dreams of cheap lenses, and so far it isn't working out that way...

October 17th, 2013, 09:44 AM	#26
Phil Goetz Austinite Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Austin Posts: 550	Re: Blackmagic Pocket Cam lens? One of our BMPCC cameras would not work with two different Lumix 25 F1.4 lenses (H-X025). It didn't snap into place. We had a Lumix 12-35 F2.8 (H-HS12035) work on one BMPCC but not on another. I just keep thinking... long live Rokinon! Omega - Packages - Omega Broadcast - Single Packages - Canon EF Mount Lens Kit These lenses have a smooth aperture, no clicks, built in focus ring...