Workflow question: Should I be editing at 2.5K or at 1080p? at DVinfo.net

John Hewat · April 14th, 2013, 04:27 AM

Hi,

I've converted my BMCC 2.5K raw into Cineform RAW (still at 2.5K resolution) and am editing in a 2.5K sequence.

But should I be editing in a 1920x1080 sequence? I'm still unsure as to whether the Blackmagic Cinema Camera's footage is intended to be viewed at 2.5K or whether its purpose is actually to be scaled down to 1080p.

If it is supposed to be scaled down, my sub questions are:

1. Should I use Cineform Studio to scale down in the RAW conversion process or can I use my NLE (Premiere) to just scale it during the edit?
2. Can I crop to 1080p without concern or is that not suggested?

I think that's it for now.

Thanks for your help,

-- John

Bruce Watson · April 14th, 2013, 08:06 AM

Edit at native format. Output to target format.

John Hewat · April 14th, 2013, 08:57 AM

So there's no difference in the scaling capabilities of Premiere or Cineform or Resolve?

Duane Adam · April 14th, 2013, 06:33 PM

If I'm combining with other 1080 media then I set up a 1080 project. Otherwise native as mentioned.

John Hewat · April 14th, 2013, 06:45 PM

And Duane, if you're scaling to 1080, do you do that in Resolve or do you do it in the editing program with a bit more control of framing and the ability to crop if you prefer?

And is there a good reason to scale in one program over the other?

Duane Adam · April 15th, 2013, 08:40 AM

I've been scaling in premiere pro with decent results. Don't like the way 1080 files look when you enlarge them so I would rather scale down the larger files until I'm mastering to 4k.

Kevin Duffey · April 23rd, 2013, 10:21 PM

Hey fellas,

If you have some 2.5K (or even 4K) footage, and your project is initially 2.5K (or 4K), and you include some 2K or 1080P footage as well, can't you still edit in the highest res, with the smaller rez footage "centering" and then when you output to 1080P the 2K/2.5K/4K would scale down while the 1080P would stay the same size and fill the final screen size? Or would premiere scale the 1080P down too even if the target was 1080P?

Chris Barcellos · April 26th, 2013, 10:32 PM

Until today, I had felt that editing in 2.5 was just going to be a bit too much for my system, and I had been shooting only Prores. However, I decided look at the Cineform option today, and I am pleasantly surprised on how easy it is on my system. I shouldn't have been surprised I suppose, because I have using Cineform since I started with HDV, and I always come back to using it, despite the other new things that come along.

It turns out that the process recommended in the tutorials is indeed very easy. You injest you Raw to CIneform, using a protune setting and you get an clean and easy to edit file that is about 1/5 the size of the raw frames. The converted footage maintains the wide dynamic ranges, and in my case, when I take it into Vegas, the editing tools there work well with the Cineform files. Cineform claims there resulting files are visually lossless, and I have to say this seems to be true. I had been struggling with a Resolve workflow prior to this just in using Prorez, and it seems this method (shooting raw and working with a cineform converted file as the master file is a better answer than shooting in Prores.

A reminder about converting in Cineform Studio, make sure to render at the full 2.5 K file size and edit in that format, and convert down to 1920 x 1080 if necessary as your final output file. The 2.5 image is so nice !!

Casey Danielson · June 8th, 2014, 10:07 AM

I've been doing the ProRes route, too. I don't have a workhorse computer, just an iMac dual-core, so I haven't even tried shooting RAW. your post makes me want to try RAW. What would be your simplest sequence of steps for taking a one-minute RAW clip, chopping out a few seconds of nothing, all the way to the point of final export?

April 14th, 2013, 04:27 AM	#1
John Hewat Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Posts: 735	Workflow question: Should I be editing at 2.5K or at 1080p? Hi, I've converted my BMCC 2.5K raw into Cineform RAW (still at 2.5K resolution) and am editing in a 2.5K sequence. But should I be editing in a 1920x1080 sequence? I'm still unsure as to whether the Blackmagic Cinema Camera's footage is intended to be viewed at 2.5K or whether its purpose is actually to be scaled down to 1080p. If it is supposed to be scaled down, my sub questions are: 1. Should I use Cineform Studio to scale down in the RAW conversion process or can I use my NLE (Premiere) to just scale it during the edit? 2. Can I crop to 1080p without concern or is that not suggested? I think that's it for now. Thanks for your help, -- John __________________ John Hewat Mammoth Media Productions

April 14th, 2013, 08:06 AM	#2
Bruce Watson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Raleigh, NC, USA Posts: 710	Re: Workflow question: Should I be editing at 2.5K or at 1080p? Edit at native format. Output to target format.

April 14th, 2013, 08:57 AM	#3
John Hewat Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Posts: 735	Re: Workflow question: Should I be editing at 2.5K or at 1080p? So there's no difference in the scaling capabilities of Premiere or Cineform or Resolve? __________________ John Hewat Mammoth Media Productions

April 14th, 2013, 06:33 PM	#4
Duane Adam Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gilroy, CA Posts: 398	Re: Workflow question: Should I be editing at 2.5K or at 1080p? If I'm combining with other 1080 media then I set up a 1080 project. Otherwise native as mentioned.

April 14th, 2013, 06:45 PM	#5
John Hewat Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA Posts: 735	Re: Workflow question: Should I be editing at 2.5K or at 1080p? And Duane, if you're scaling to 1080, do you do that in Resolve or do you do it in the editing program with a bit more control of framing and the ability to crop if you prefer? And is there a good reason to scale in one program over the other? __________________ John Hewat Mammoth Media Productions

April 15th, 2013, 08:40 AM	#6
Duane Adam Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Gilroy, CA Posts: 398	Re: Workflow question: Should I be editing at 2.5K or at 1080p? I've been scaling in premiere pro with decent results. Don't like the way 1080 files look when you enlarge them so I would rather scale down the larger files until I'm mastering to 4k.

April 23rd, 2013, 10:21 PM	#7
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	Re: Workflow question: Should I be editing at 2.5K or at 1080p? Hey fellas, If you have some 2.5K (or even 4K) footage, and your project is initially 2.5K (or 4K), and you include some 2K or 1080P footage as well, can't you still edit in the highest res, with the smaller rez footage "centering" and then when you output to 1080P the 2K/2.5K/4K would scale down while the 1080P would stay the same size and fill the final screen size? Or would premiere scale the 1080P down too even if the target was 1080P?

April 26th, 2013, 10:32 PM	#8
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Re: Workflow question: Should I be editing at 2.5K or at 1080p? Until today, I had felt that editing in 2.5 was just going to be a bit too much for my system, and I had been shooting only Prores. However, I decided look at the Cineform option today, and I am pleasantly surprised on how easy it is on my system. I shouldn't have been surprised I suppose, because I have using Cineform since I started with HDV, and I always come back to using it, despite the other new things that come along. It turns out that the process recommended in the tutorials is indeed very easy. You injest you Raw to CIneform, using a protune setting and you get an clean and easy to edit file that is about 1/5 the size of the raw frames. The converted footage maintains the wide dynamic ranges, and in my case, when I take it into Vegas, the editing tools there work well with the Cineform files. Cineform claims there resulting files are visually lossless, and I have to say this seems to be true. I had been struggling with a Resolve workflow prior to this just in using Prorez, and it seems this method (shooting raw and working with a cineform converted file as the master file is a better answer than shooting in Prores. A reminder about converting in Cineform Studio, make sure to render at the full 2.5 K file size and edit in that format, and convert down to 1920 x 1080 if necessary as your final output file. The 2.5 image is so nice !! __________________ Chris J. Barcellos Last edited by Chris Barcellos; April 26th, 2013 at 10:36 PM. Reason: Correct statement in final sentence.

June 8th, 2014, 10:07 AM	#9
Casey Danielson Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 76	Re: Workflow question: Should I be editing at 2.5K or at 1080p? I've been doing the ProRes route, too. I don't have a workhorse computer, just an iMac dual-core, so I haven't even tried shooting RAW. your post makes me want to try RAW. What would be your simplest sequence of steps for taking a one-minute RAW clip, chopping out a few seconds of nothing, all the way to the point of final export?