Star Wars - Behind the Scenes Special

Joshua Starnes · September 14th, 2004, 10:50 AM

i tried very hard to think of one or a series of films but i could not think of any.

Of course, it used to be all over the place with the Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon serials, but those are long gone (though Stephen Sommers is going to make a new Flash Gordon).

There were some tries to ape Star Wars after it came out - Battle Beyond the Stars, Star Crash, things like that. Most of them were fairly low budget, and they were uniformly bad so naturally, they eventually died out.

One of the main reason that they are not made is that in the studio system, it would be incomparibly expensive to try to mount a similar production, without a guarntee of success. It's a testament to the leaness and meaness of Lucasfilm that they are able to bring these movies in at $100 million a piece. Recently Universal tried to do something similar with their Chronicles of Riddick and it was ridiculously expensive - close to $200 million and it didn't do so well at the box office. So there you are.

Joshua Starnes · September 14th, 2004, 10:53 AM

Unfortunately for George, we like what we have known for the past 20+ years and he wants to tamper with that. If he is going to do that, then he should give us the option of seeing any version we want to maintain the integrity of our memory and experience.

You've got to ask yourself some serious questions there, and then ask yourself what you would do in Lucas' place.

Does a creator have responsibility to his fans wishes? Does a creator have responsibility to his own wishes? Which responsibility is greater? What should the creator do when his wishes are in direct competition to his fans wishes?

John Hudson · September 14th, 2004, 12:11 PM

Ultimately the artist makes the decisions. It has been my experience, however, that the majority does not like what LUCAS is doing. The new ones are horrible and the old ones are being tainted.

Robert Knecht Schmidt · September 14th, 2004, 12:16 PM

"Does a creator have responsibility to his fans wishes? Does a creator have responsibility to his own wishes?"

The secret message of myth is that the two cannot be disharmonious.

Joshua Starnes · September 14th, 2004, 02:16 PM

Ultimately the artist makes the decisions. It has been my experience, however, that the majority does not like what LUCAS is doing. The new ones are horrible and the old ones are being tainted.

Lucas clearly doesn't agree. So, the question is, if the majority of viewers don't like what he's doing (and that's debatable) should he immediatly change to please them, even if it is contrary to his fans? Or are his own artistic desires paramount? Which is the greater obligation?

"Does a creator have responsibility to his fans wishes? Does a creator have responsibility to his own wishes?"

The secret message of myth is that the two cannot be disharmonious.

And yet they clearly are in this case. What Lucas wishes for Star Wars is not the same as what many fans wish for Star Wars. Which is the greater obligation?

Boyd Ostroff · September 14th, 2004, 03:24 PM

Watch that old movie The Fountainhead with Patricia Neal, Gary Cooper and Joseph Cotten sometime for an interesting (although hokey in a Hollywood way) examination of whether an artist is responsible to the masses (based on the Ayn Rand novel).

Something else just crossed my mind, cynic that I am. What are the copyright implications of Lucas' "improved" Star Wars film? Does the fact he's changed a certain percentage of it enable him to extend the copyright further? Or would the mere act of re-releasing it accomplish the same thing anyway?

Joshua Starnes · September 15th, 2004, 12:28 PM

Something else just crossed my mind, cynic that I am. What are the copyright implications of Lucas' "improved" Star Wars film? Does the fact he's changed a certain percentage of it enable him to extend the copyright further? Or would the mere act of re-releasing it accomplish the same thing anyway?

He doesn't even have to re-release it to extend his copyright (but it is good for the trademark). All he has to do is fill out the right paperwork.

All he has to do is keep renewing the copyright every so often and it will be his forever. Most likely, he has a provision in his will to transfer the copyright to his company and his children so that it will remain in the family in perpetuity, like Henson did with the Muppets and Tolkien did with Lord of the Rings.

Yi Fong Yu · September 15th, 2004, 01:17 PM

ah but what really sux about that is the real estate can really be stingy. i don't think i'll ever see silmarillion adapted to the big screen (for profit) in my lifetime cause of that copyright, but i'd love to! i luv it more than hobbit+lotr.

Joshua Starnes · September 16th, 2004, 12:00 PM

i don't think i'll ever see silmarillion adapted to the big screen (for profit) in my lifetime cause of that copyright

I don't know. You might be able to do it as a mini-series for TV, but that's about it. Not for the big screen though. It's unadaptable for the big screen. You might be able to pick a story and turn it into the movie (like Beren, or Turin or something) but you'd never be able to do the whole thing. It's unadaptable. It would be like trying to do all of Greek mythology in one movie or set of movies.

Yi Fong Yu · September 16th, 2004, 01:05 PM

yes and no. i think it's been about 90 years now but i think now would be a great time to bring the "serial-style" movie releases back. you can definitely do it with silmarillion, do a few number of movies. we already know the market is there cause of lord of the rings, but you have to do it just as good. plus it's difficult with sil cause there's no ONE central main character. it's quite vast... but i still see it as a really cinematic piece.

Robert Knecht Schmidt · September 16th, 2004, 01:33 PM

"i think now would be a great time to bring the 'serial-style' movie releases back"

It's called episodic television.

Yi Fong Yu · September 16th, 2004, 02:19 PM

well no, in an episodic movie RELEASED in a cinema and NOT on television. and yesh we already know the XF is like a movie everyweek or six feet under felt like that (like this past season4) every episode is like a movie. but what i meant is literally make a serial of films released every so often like monthly, bimonthly, etc.

Keith Loh · September 16th, 2004, 02:26 PM

You could do a Discovery/BBC channel 'fake history' series based upon the Simillarion that would be about the same quality as the "Walking With Dinosaurs" series. It would be a roaring success.

Yi Fong Yu · September 16th, 2004, 02:39 PM

lucas has answered:

AP: Why not release both the originals and special editions on DVD?

Lucas: The special edition, that's the one I wanted out there. The other movie, it's on VHS, if anybody wants it. ... I'm not going to spend the, we're talking millions of dollars here, the money and the time to refurbish that, because to me, it doesn't really exist anymore. It's like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be. I'm the one who has to take responsibility for it. I'm the one who has to have everybody throw rocks at me all the time, so at least if they're going to throw rocks at me, they're going to throw rocks at me for something I love rather than something I think is not very good, or at least something I think is not finished.

AP: Do you pay much attention to fan reactions to your choices?

Lucas: Not really. The movies are what the movies are. ... The thing about science-fiction fans and "Star Wars" fans is they're very independent-thinking people. They all think outside the box, but they all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way.
from: http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/arti...ts_on_dvd?pg=2

Brack Craver · September 16th, 2004, 03:04 PM

He really is a tool of Holmesian proportions.

September 14th, 2004, 12:16 PM	#34
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	"Does a creator have responsibility to his fans wishes? Does a creator have responsibility to his own wishes?" The secret message of myth is that the two cannot be disharmonious. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 15th, 2004, 01:17 PM	#38
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	ah but what really sux about that is the real estate can really be stingy. i don't think i'll ever see silmarillion adapted to the big screen (for profit) in my lifetime cause of that copyright, but i'd love to! i luv it more than hobbit+lotr. __________________ bow wow wow

September 16th, 2004, 01:05 PM	#40
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	yes and no. i think it's been about 90 years now but i think now would be a great time to bring the "serial-style" movie releases back. you can definitely do it with silmarillion, do a few number of movies. we already know the market is there cause of lord of the rings, but you have to do it just as good. plus it's difficult with sil cause there's no ONE central main character. it's quite vast... but i still see it as a really cinematic piece. __________________ bow wow wow

September 16th, 2004, 01:33 PM	#41
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	"i think now would be a great time to bring the 'serial-style' movie releases back" It's called episodic television. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

September 16th, 2004, 02:19 PM	#42
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	well no, in an episodic movie RELEASED in a cinema and NOT on television. and yesh we already know the XF is like a movie everyweek or six feet under felt like that (like this past season4) every episode is like a movie. but what i meant is literally make a serial of films released every so often like monthly, bimonthly, etc. __________________ bow wow wow

September 14th, 2004, 10:50 AM	#31
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	i tried very hard to think of one or a series of films but i could not think of any. Of course, it used to be all over the place with the Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon serials, but those are long gone (though Stephen Sommers is going to make a new Flash Gordon). There were some tries to ape Star Wars after it came out - Battle Beyond the Stars, Star Crash, things like that. Most of them were fairly low budget, and they were uniformly bad so naturally, they eventually died out. One of the main reason that they are not made is that in the studio system, it would be incomparibly expensive to try to mount a similar production, without a guarntee of success. It's a testament to the leaness and meaness of Lucasfilm that they are able to bring these movies in at $100 million a piece. Recently Universal tried to do something similar with their Chronicles of Riddick and it was ridiculously expensive - close to $200 million and it didn't do so well at the box office. So there you are.

September 14th, 2004, 10:53 AM	#32
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	Unfortunately for George, we like what we have known for the past 20+ years and he wants to tamper with that. If he is going to do that, then he should give us the option of seeing any version we want to maintain the integrity of our memory and experience. You've got to ask yourself some serious questions there, and then ask yourself what you would do in Lucas' place. Does a creator have responsibility to his fans wishes? Does a creator have responsibility to his own wishes? Which responsibility is greater? What should the creator do when his wishes are in direct competition to his fans wishes?

September 14th, 2004, 12:11 PM	#33
John Hudson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: 32° 44' N 117° 10' W Posts: 820	Ultimately the artist makes the decisions. It has been my experience, however, that the majority does not like what LUCAS is doing. The new ones are horrible and the old ones are being tainted.

September 14th, 2004, 02:16 PM	#35
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	Ultimately the artist makes the decisions. It has been my experience, however, that the majority does not like what LUCAS is doing. The new ones are horrible and the old ones are being tainted. Lucas clearly doesn't agree. So, the question is, if the majority of viewers don't like what he's doing (and that's debatable) should he immediatly change to please them, even if it is contrary to his fans? Or are his own artistic desires paramount? Which is the greater obligation? "Does a creator have responsibility to his fans wishes? Does a creator have responsibility to his own wishes?" The secret message of myth is that the two cannot be disharmonious. And yet they clearly are in this case. What Lucas wishes for Star Wars is not the same as what many fans wish for Star Wars. Which is the greater obligation?

September 14th, 2004, 03:24 PM	#36
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,802	Watch that old movie The Fountainhead with Patricia Neal, Gary Cooper and Joseph Cotten sometime for an interesting (although hokey in a Hollywood way) examination of whether an artist is responsible to the masses (based on the Ayn Rand novel). Something else just crossed my mind, cynic that I am. What are the copyright implications of Lucas' "improved" Star Wars film? Does the fact he's changed a certain percentage of it enable him to extend the copyright further? Or would the mere act of re-releasing it accomplish the same thing anyway?

September 15th, 2004, 12:28 PM	#37
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	Something else just crossed my mind, cynic that I am. What are the copyright implications of Lucas' "improved" Star Wars film? Does the fact he's changed a certain percentage of it enable him to extend the copyright further? Or would the mere act of re-releasing it accomplish the same thing anyway? He doesn't even have to re-release it to extend his copyright (but it is good for the trademark). All he has to do is fill out the right paperwork. All he has to do is keep renewing the copyright every so often and it will be his forever. Most likely, he has a provision in his will to transfer the copyright to his company and his children so that it will remain in the family in perpetuity, like Henson did with the Muppets and Tolkien did with Lord of the Rings.

September 16th, 2004, 12:00 PM	#39
Joshua Starnes Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 356	i don't think i'll ever see silmarillion adapted to the big screen (for profit) in my lifetime cause of that copyright I don't know. You might be able to do it as a mini-series for TV, but that's about it. Not for the big screen though. It's unadaptable for the big screen. You might be able to pick a story and turn it into the movie (like Beren, or Turin or something) but you'd never be able to do the whole thing. It's unadaptable. It would be like trying to do all of Greek mythology in one movie or set of movies.

September 16th, 2004, 02:26 PM	#43
Keith Loh Air China Pilot Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vancouver, B.C. Posts: 2,389	You could do a Discovery/BBC channel 'fake history' series based upon the Simillarion that would be about the same quality as the "Walking With Dinosaurs" series. It would be a roaring success. __________________ -- Visit http://www.KeithLoh.com \| stuff about living in Vancouver \| My Flickr photo gallery

September 16th, 2004, 02:39 PM	#44
Yi Fong Yu Trustee Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vulcan Posts: 1,564	lucas has answered: AP: Why not release both the originals and special editions on DVD? Lucas: The special edition, that's the one I wanted out there. The other movie, it's on VHS, if anybody wants it. ... I'm not going to spend the, we're talking millions of dollars here, the money and the time to refurbish that, because to me, it doesn't really exist anymore. It's like this is the movie I wanted it to be, and I'm sorry you saw half a completed film and fell in love with it. But I want it to be the way I want it to be. I'm the one who has to take responsibility for it. I'm the one who has to have everybody throw rocks at me all the time, so at least if they're going to throw rocks at me, they're going to throw rocks at me for something I love rather than something I think is not very good, or at least something I think is not finished. AP: Do you pay much attention to fan reactions to your choices? Lucas: Not really. The movies are what the movies are. ... The thing about science-fiction fans and "Star Wars" fans is they're very independent-thinking people. They all think outside the box, but they all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way. from: http://www.boston.com/ae/movies/arti...ts_on_dvd?pg=2 __________________ bow wow wow

September 16th, 2004, 03:04 PM	#45
Brack Craver Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Blacksburg Virginia Posts: 50	He really is a tool of Holmesian proportions.