Upgrading to liquid 7 at DVinfo.net

Woody Sanford · February 28th, 2007, 06:57 PM

Hi Guy's

I've been learning on Studio 10 since last summer and feel it's time to upgrade. I've settled on going with Liquid, so that part is figured out but...there is always a BUT.

I have had some stability issues with Studio, nothing major like some have had. Basically all I can't do is add menus to a track and sometimes a lock up if I attempt to much at once, no big, still learned allot and have allot of fun with it.

Guess I should get around to it, there is a upgrade from Studio to liquid that is a couple hundred less and it got me thinking about stability issues I've had with Studio. Would I be better off just getting the full liquid pack vs the upgrade? Not going to sweat the money difference if there is a benefit to the full pack.

My main concern is stability of the software. I'm running a custom machine 2G RAM, P4, Matrox Millennium P650 PCI Express 128MB card, lots of drive space. and XP Pro OS.

George Ellis · February 28th, 2007, 07:57 PM

I moved from Studio 8.x to Liquid 4.5 for the same reasons. Liquid is lightyears ahead on stability. While they now have the same cores, there are two development teams maintaining the code.

Chris Barcellos · February 28th, 2007, 09:07 PM

There appear to be two versions of Liquid Upgrade, standard and Pro, $299 and $699 respectively. The $699.00 version appears to have additional features, as well as a breakout box.

The point is I think you get the same level program, whether you qualify for the upgrade, or just by the non-upgrade versions. The only difference is you probably have to prove you own the product you are upgrading from.

George Ellis · March 1st, 2007, 04:49 AM

Pro and Standard are the same with the exceptions around the input, output, and monitor options that come with the Break Out Box (BOB).

For upgrades, the installer prompts you for your Studio key (and maybe media - have not had to do that track in years).

Woody Sanford · March 1st, 2007, 07:59 AM

Thanks for the reply's. The upgrade sounded some what different, being able to set the UI similar to Studio and some other benefits that directly support Studio. Sounded different enough to be so.

Sure, it would be nice to only have to spend the 299. but not if I'm going to get a lesser product. Was just wondering if anyone had any knowledge of any differences between the two or had expirience with just going with the upgrade.

Woody

David Parks · March 1st, 2007, 09:23 AM

Woody,

Unless you're using analog sources like Betacam SP or VHS or mastering back to analog, you won't need the pro version. The only practical differences relate to I/O and the breakout box.

Woody Sanford · March 1st, 2007, 10:22 AM

Thanks David, that was another question I had. I was mainly looking to see if there was a difference in the standard liquid 7 software for 499 and the upgrade for 299. The upgrade lists some compatability with Studio that the standard does not and also changing the user interface to be similar to studio.

Yeah it would be cool to have the ability to import projects directly into liquid since I have become a Heroglyph junky and if I didn't have to buy it again for another software that would be nice. I guess I'm a bit leary of the upgrade with the stability issues I've had with studio and wondering if I'd be better off spending the extra 200. for the standard rather than just doing the upgrade.

From what I have been able to learn about Liquid, I plan to be using it for a very long time. Perhaps it was just the way they worded the description of the upgrade that sent up a red flag for me. I'm very much a science geek and am used to chaos but I do like to have some control over my working environment and just wanted to make sure before getting the software. Well there is that and if spending the extra 200. now enables me to maintain what little hair I have left down the road...Bonus!

Chris Barcellos · March 1st, 2007, 10:23 AM

I do like the fact that Pinnacle marketers are recognizing the fact that Premeire users will need a bit of a push to get on board the Avid train. I have been a Studio and Premeire user for years, also have Vegas 7, now if they would just give a deeper discount to upgrade from both..... I would consider that next step to have Avid in my arsenal...

Thomas Smet · March 1st, 2007, 10:54 AM

Liquid Pro is not just good for importing and exporting to and from analog devices. Liquid Pro gives you the option to see pretty much everything that is done inside of Liquid in realtime on your TV. With the standard version of Liquid even realtime effects have to be rendered in order to see them on your TV through the firewire. Plus in order to see anything your firewire device such as your camera will have to be on and connected to your TV.

Being able to see what you are doing on your TV isn't important for everybody but it is a really nice feature if you care about seeing exactly how things will look.

Chris Barcellos · March 1st, 2007, 11:04 AM

Thomas:

Back a few years ago, I had that benefit with the Pinnacle Pro One board, and real time editing inside Premiere. That was nice to have that ability. Problem was that you were limited to only certain realtime transisitions and other real time editing filters, and those sometimes left something to be desired. Even created issues when rendering to DVD later. Does Avid provide real time with all filters, and transitions ?

Thomas Smet · March 1st, 2007, 02:01 PM

Not all of them but a huge number of them are realtime.

there are five classes of effects in Liquid.

GPU - Always realtime out the analog ports. This is where some of the real raw power of Liquid is. GPU effects basically cover any level of 2D or 3D movement.

CPU - Always realtime but depending on your system may drop frames during playback. The cpu effects depend on how good of a system you have. Even though you may drop frames from time to time they still work through the analog ports so you can see what you are doing. CPU effects also can be movement as well as image based effects such as blur and color correction and timewarps.

Classic - These effects are never realtime but there are only a handfull of them. Most of these effects have a GPU or CPU version as well. The classic effects are there to offer a slightly different take on the quality of the rendered effect. Some people feel they look slightly better but it is really up to you.

Plugins - These are also never in realtime but show me an NLE where 3rd party plugins are realtime.

Hollywood FX - Most of these are GPU based so they are realtime and play out the analog ports. Some complex effects however will need to render first because they are too much for the gpu to handle.

Even if you have to use any non realtime effects, Liquid does render in the background so after you apply the effect it will render it while you work on another section.

Download the demo version of Liquid and play around with what it can do. Everything on the timeline that has a grey, green or yellow line above it will play out the analog ports. Only the red sections will have to be rendered. Even then sometimes a still frame of the red section will output when you are scrubbing the timeline.

Chris Barcellos · March 1st, 2007, 02:20 PM

Thanks for the info. I will check it out....

George Ellis · March 2nd, 2007, 05:00 AM

Thomas forgot a couple of the new effects classes. With 7.x, we got some of the Commotion effects (an older package) that includes better keying tools. There was also an add-on pack with 7.1 that has Magic Bullet effects that was free.

The standard also has the Studio look too. It changes the layout to one similar to Studio. More later... (time to met my carpool).

Thomas Smet · March 2nd, 2007, 09:28 AM

very true. I had grouped them in my mind as plugins but you are right that I should have split them out as their own catagory.

Chris Barcellos · March 2nd, 2007, 10:13 AM

Thanks again all..

February 28th, 2007, 06:57 PM	#1
Woody Sanford Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Princeton, NC Posts: 161	Upgrading to liquid 7 Hi Guy's I've been learning on Studio 10 since last summer and feel it's time to upgrade. I've settled on going with Liquid, so that part is figured out but...there is always a BUT. I have had some stability issues with Studio, nothing major like some have had. Basically all I can't do is add menus to a track and sometimes a lock up if I attempt to much at once, no big, still learned allot and have allot of fun with it. Guess I should get around to it, there is a upgrade from Studio to liquid that is a couple hundred less and it got me thinking about stability issues I've had with Studio. Would I be better off just getting the full liquid pack vs the upgrade? Not going to sweat the money difference if there is a benefit to the full pack. My main concern is stability of the software. I'm running a custom machine 2G RAM, P4, Matrox Millennium P650 PCI Express 128MB card, lots of drive space. and XP Pro OS.

February 28th, 2007, 09:07 PM	#3
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	There appear to be two versions of Liquid Upgrade, standard and Pro, $299 and $699 respectively. The $699.00 version appears to have additional features, as well as a breakout box. The point is I think you get the same level program, whether you qualify for the upgrade, or just by the non-upgrade versions. The only difference is you probably have to prove you own the product you are upgrading from. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

March 1st, 2007, 07:59 AM	#5
Woody Sanford Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Princeton, NC Posts: 161	thanks Thanks for the reply's. The upgrade sounded some what different, being able to set the UI similar to Studio and some other benefits that directly support Studio. Sounded different enough to be so. Sure, it would be nice to only have to spend the 299. but not if I'm going to get a lesser product. Was just wondering if anyone had any knowledge of any differences between the two or had expirience with just going with the upgrade. Woody

March 1st, 2007, 09:23 AM	#6
David Parks Major Player Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 789	Woody, Unless you're using analog sources like Betacam SP or VHS or mastering back to analog, you won't need the pro version. The only practical differences relate to I/O and the breakout box. __________________ David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center https://www.youtube.com/user/JacobsESCG

March 1st, 2007, 10:23 AM	#8
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	I do like the fact that Pinnacle marketers are recognizing the fact that Premeire users will need a bit of a push to get on board the Avid train. I have been a Studio and Premeire user for years, also have Vegas 7, now if they would just give a deeper discount to upgrade from both..... I would consider that next step to have Avid in my arsenal... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

February 28th, 2007, 07:57 PM	#2
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	I moved from Studio 8.x to Liquid 4.5 for the same reasons. Liquid is lightyears ahead on stability. While they now have the same cores, there are two development teams maintaining the code.

March 1st, 2007, 04:49 AM	#4
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Pro and Standard are the same with the exceptions around the input, output, and monitor options that come with the Break Out Box (BOB). For upgrades, the installer prompts you for your Studio key (and maybe media - have not had to do that track in years).

March 1st, 2007, 10:22 AM	#7
Woody Sanford Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Princeton, NC Posts: 161	Thanks David, that was another question I had. I was mainly looking to see if there was a difference in the standard liquid 7 software for 499 and the upgrade for 299. The upgrade lists some compatability with Studio that the standard does not and also changing the user interface to be similar to studio. Yeah it would be cool to have the ability to import projects directly into liquid since I have become a Heroglyph junky and if I didn't have to buy it again for another software that would be nice. I guess I'm a bit leary of the upgrade with the stability issues I've had with studio and wondering if I'd be better off spending the extra 200. for the standard rather than just doing the upgrade. From what I have been able to learn about Liquid, I plan to be using it for a very long time. Perhaps it was just the way they worded the description of the upgrade that sent up a red flag for me. I'm very much a science geek and am used to chaos but I do like to have some control over my working environment and just wanted to make sure before getting the software. Well there is that and if spending the extra 200. now enables me to maintain what little hair I have left down the road...Bonus!

March 1st, 2007, 10:54 AM	#9
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Liquid Pro is not just good for importing and exporting to and from analog devices. Liquid Pro gives you the option to see pretty much everything that is done inside of Liquid in realtime on your TV. With the standard version of Liquid even realtime effects have to be rendered in order to see them on your TV through the firewire. Plus in order to see anything your firewire device such as your camera will have to be on and connected to your TV. Being able to see what you are doing on your TV isn't important for everybody but it is a really nice feature if you care about seeing exactly how things will look.

March 1st, 2007, 11:04 AM	#10
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Thomas: Back a few years ago, I had that benefit with the Pinnacle Pro One board, and real time editing inside Premiere. That was nice to have that ability. Problem was that you were limited to only certain realtime transisitions and other real time editing filters, and those sometimes left something to be desired. Even created issues when rendering to DVD later. Does Avid provide real time with all filters, and transitions ? __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

March 1st, 2007, 02:01 PM	#11
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Not all of them but a huge number of them are realtime. there are five classes of effects in Liquid. GPU - Always realtime out the analog ports. This is where some of the real raw power of Liquid is. GPU effects basically cover any level of 2D or 3D movement. CPU - Always realtime but depending on your system may drop frames during playback. The cpu effects depend on how good of a system you have. Even though you may drop frames from time to time they still work through the analog ports so you can see what you are doing. CPU effects also can be movement as well as image based effects such as blur and color correction and timewarps. Classic - These effects are never realtime but there are only a handfull of them. Most of these effects have a GPU or CPU version as well. The classic effects are there to offer a slightly different take on the quality of the rendered effect. Some people feel they look slightly better but it is really up to you. Plugins - These are also never in realtime but show me an NLE where 3rd party plugins are realtime. Hollywood FX - Most of these are GPU based so they are realtime and play out the analog ports. Some complex effects however will need to render first because they are too much for the gpu to handle. Even if you have to use any non realtime effects, Liquid does render in the background so after you apply the effect it will render it while you work on another section. Download the demo version of Liquid and play around with what it can do. Everything on the timeline that has a grey, green or yellow line above it will play out the analog ports. Only the red sections will have to be rendered. Even then sometimes a still frame of the red section will output when you are scrubbing the timeline.

March 1st, 2007, 02:20 PM	#12
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Thanks for the info. I will check it out.... __________________ Chris J. Barcellos

March 2nd, 2007, 05:00 AM	#13
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Thomas forgot a couple of the new effects classes. With 7.x, we got some of the Commotion effects (an older package) that includes better keying tools. There was also an add-on pack with 7.1 that has Magic Bullet effects that was free. The standard also has the Studio look too. It changes the layout to one similar to Studio. More later... (time to met my carpool).

March 2nd, 2007, 09:28 AM	#14
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	very true. I had grouped them in my mind as plugins but you are right that I should have split them out as their own catagory.

March 2nd, 2007, 10:13 AM	#15
Chris Barcellos Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Elk Grove CA Posts: 6,838	Thanks again all.. __________________ Chris J. Barcellos