exporting from Liquid to After effects and back at DVinfo.net

Nima Taheri · December 18th, 2006, 05:39 PM

Trying to export edited HDV-SD 25p footage to After Effects for keying, effects and CC. There is no way of exporting QT-Reference from Liquid, so how do I keep the best quality from Liquid into After Effects, and also back to Liquid for recording on tape? Settings, codec etc.

PS: any way to record to tape in After Effects?

Christian Magnussen · December 18th, 2006, 05:57 PM

Tried uncompressed AVI? Both out of Liquid and AE.

Nima Taheri · December 18th, 2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Christian Magnussen

Tried uncompressed AVI? Both out of Liquid and AE.

Hi Magnus

I'm not really seeing better quality with uncompressed .avi, my concern is that I'm losing a quality generation for every time I export (which will be 2x before dumping back to tape)

Christian Magnussen · December 20th, 2006, 02:52 PM

As far as I can remember you shouldn't experience any loss og quality when using either Fuse or uncompressed AVI.

Isn't it MPEG2, hdv, where you could be losing a quality generation for every export?

George Ellis · December 21st, 2006, 12:27 PM

I have no experience with AE... Liquid is M2V by default. Try using Fuse for the sequence between mark in and mark out. You might get better results. When you fuse, do not import back in as part of fuse (you will have to imported the AE output of course.)

Nima Taheri · January 15th, 2007, 09:24 AM

George:

When I Fuse the uncompressed timeline, the file format becomes .2yuv and not .m2v. After Effects does not support .2vuy files. How do I get an uncompressed timeline from Avid Liquid into After Effects?

George Ellis · January 15th, 2007, 04:54 PM

Try creating a new sequence that is MPEG. Drop the current sequence from the sequence view in the racks into the timeline. You can then dismantle that container. The new sequence will output as MPEG (and preserve the YUV). Fuse adopts the properties of the sequence and your current one is YUV.

Nima Taheri · January 16th, 2007, 04:51 AM

I will try that. Just wondering though, will there will be noticable difference between Fusing (MPEG) and exporting to Uncompressed QT Movie? Wouldn't the QT be better for keying and compositing?

Thomas Smet · January 16th, 2007, 11:13 AM

After Effects does support importing 2vuy files. When you selct them you have to tell After Effects to load them in as quicktime files. It defaults to some other format that will not work with 2vuy files.

With After Effects you can also export 2vuy files as well by going to file - export and not the render que. You have to export as Avid 2vuy format. This export is a little buggy however and only works with certain basic formats so it may not work for you.

The other option is to set your timeline sequence as RGB. When you fuse this timeline it will fuse as a "none" compressed RGB AVI file which will load into After Effects with no problem at all. You can then render a "None" compressed AVI file from After Effects to load back into Liquid. RGB AVI files do work in Liquid as a realtime format but they need alot of drive speed. For example a normal 29.97 NTSC clip would need around 30 MB/S of bandwidth for a single stream.

Do not worry about loosing a generation of quality. When you render in After Effects you would loose a genration anyways. By converting to a RGB AVI you keep a high standard throughout the effect process. Once it is a RGB AVI it may not look any better then the HDV file but it will not get any worse either. It is the same concept behind codecs such as Cineform. You loose a genration when going to the Cineform codec but every edit and render at the point stays at the same level of quality.

Jack Walker · January 20th, 2007, 03:09 PM

I learned the hard way from days of wasted time that Liquid is not the program to use when dealing with uncompressed if you ever have to take the video out of Liquid.

Avid won't publish the facts and diehard Liquid users skirt around the issues claiming Liquid is great, without details.

There are workarounds that may or may not work, but inevitably at a loss in quality.

Internally Liquid employs a proprietary, legacy scheme for dealing with uncompressed.

BlackMagic codecs, Edius and prayers sometimes can be part of a strategy to work with Liquid Uncompressed and external programs.

Stephen L. Noe · January 22nd, 2007, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nima Taheri

I will try that. Just wondering though, will there will be noticable difference between Fusing (MPEG) and exporting to Uncompressed QT Movie? Wouldn't the QT be better for keying and compositing?

How about Xsend to AfterEffects using RGB-AVI? It's always worked OK. Also, have you considered using Boris Red or BorisFX? They plug right in and use most AE plugins which allows you to render the files directly in Liquid without an extra generation loss if your change the file parameters.

Lior Molcho · February 10th, 2007, 03:00 AM

whenever working with "pre-renders" or going from one software to the other I would recommend using QT ANIMATION Millions of colors.

its free, almost any software can read it and can even save alpha channels if you switch to "Millions +

Good luck

December 18th, 2006, 05:39 PM	#1
Nima Taheri Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 136	exporting from Liquid to After effects and back Trying to export edited HDV-SD 25p footage to After Effects for keying, effects and CC. There is no way of exporting QT-Reference from Liquid, so how do I keep the best quality from Liquid into After Effects, and also back to Liquid for recording on tape? Settings, codec etc. PS: any way to record to tape in After Effects?

January 15th, 2007, 09:24 AM	#6
Nima Taheri Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 136	George: When I Fuse the uncompressed timeline, the file format becomes .2yuv and not .m2v. After Effects does not support .2vuy files. How do I get an uncompressed timeline from Avid Liquid into After Effects? Last edited by Nima Taheri; January 15th, 2007 at 09:59 AM.

December 18th, 2006, 05:57 PM	#2
Christian Magnussen Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 191	Tried uncompressed AVI? Both out of Liquid and AE.

December 20th, 2006, 02:52 PM	#4
Christian Magnussen Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 191	As far as I can remember you shouldn't experience any loss og quality when using either Fuse or uncompressed AVI. Isn't it MPEG2, hdv, where you could be losing a quality generation for every export?

December 21st, 2006, 12:27 PM	#5
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	I have no experience with AE... Liquid is M2V by default. Try using Fuse for the sequence between mark in and mark out. You might get better results. When you fuse, do not import back in as part of fuse (you will have to imported the AE output of course.)

January 15th, 2007, 04:54 PM	#7
George Ellis Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Suwanee, GA Posts: 1,241	Try creating a new sequence that is MPEG. Drop the current sequence from the sequence view in the racks into the timeline. You can then dismantle that container. The new sequence will output as MPEG (and preserve the YUV). Fuse adopts the properties of the sequence and your current one is YUV.

January 16th, 2007, 04:51 AM	#8
Nima Taheri Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Norway Posts: 136	I will try that. Just wondering though, will there will be noticable difference between Fusing (MPEG) and exporting to Uncompressed QT Movie? Wouldn't the QT be better for keying and compositing?

January 16th, 2007, 11:13 AM	#9
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	After Effects does support importing 2vuy files. When you selct them you have to tell After Effects to load them in as quicktime files. It defaults to some other format that will not work with 2vuy files. With After Effects you can also export 2vuy files as well by going to file - export and not the render que. You have to export as Avid 2vuy format. This export is a little buggy however and only works with certain basic formats so it may not work for you. The other option is to set your timeline sequence as RGB. When you fuse this timeline it will fuse as a "none" compressed RGB AVI file which will load into After Effects with no problem at all. You can then render a "None" compressed AVI file from After Effects to load back into Liquid. RGB AVI files do work in Liquid as a realtime format but they need alot of drive speed. For example a normal 29.97 NTSC clip would need around 30 MB/S of bandwidth for a single stream. Do not worry about loosing a generation of quality. When you render in After Effects you would loose a genration anyways. By converting to a RGB AVI you keep a high standard throughout the effect process. Once it is a RGB AVI it may not look any better then the HDV file but it will not get any worse either. It is the same concept behind codecs such as Cineform. You loose a genration when going to the Cineform codec but every edit and render at the point stays at the same level of quality.

January 20th, 2007, 03:09 PM	#10
Jack Walker Trustee Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Burbank Posts: 1,811	I learned the hard way from days of wasted time that Liquid is not the program to use when dealing with uncompressed if you ever have to take the video out of Liquid. Avid won't publish the facts and diehard Liquid users skirt around the issues claiming Liquid is great, without details. There are workarounds that may or may not work, but inevitably at a loss in quality. Internally Liquid employs a proprietary, legacy scheme for dealing with uncompressed. BlackMagic codecs, Edius and prayers sometimes can be part of a strategy to work with Liquid Uncompressed and external programs.

February 10th, 2007, 03:00 AM	#12
Lior Molcho Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 78	whenever working with "pre-renders" or going from one software to the other I would recommend using QT ANIMATION Millions of colors. its free, almost any software can read it and can even save alpha channels if you switch to "Millions + Good luck