Avid and JVC HD at DVinfo.net

Hamad Abdulla · November 3rd, 2006, 08:24 AM

Hi,

I was wondering if anybody had any information on this, is the JVC ProHD 251E Camcorder and the JVC VTR BR-HD50 compatible with the editing suite I own Avid Adrenaline HD?

I don’t think that there should be any problems, but if there is any is there like any upgrading software?

Thanks

Hamad

Antony Michael Wilson · November 3rd, 2006, 11:38 AM

Yes, there are huge problems with Avid support for HDV1/ProHD at 24fps or 25fps on Xpress Pro, Media Composer (soft or Adrenaline) and Symphony Nitris: there is no support whatsoever!!! 30fps support is weak. So this probably affects you. Run a search and you'll see all the horrific details. The short version to this sorry story is that Avid have been promising since September last year and keep failing to deliver.

Avid Liquid is the exception and it supports HDV1 just fine. You also have some options with DS.

As things stand, the HD250 is not a good companion to your edit kit.

Steve Benner · November 3rd, 2006, 11:48 AM

My workaround for Avid Xpress Pro is to shoot with the DR-HD100 and take the native .m2t files into MPEG STREAMCLIP and convert them to DNxHD. Once in that format, Avid works great.

Carl Hicks · November 4th, 2006, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Benner

My workaround for Avid Xpress Pro is to shoot with the DR-HD100 and take the native .m2t files into MPEG STREAMCLIP and convert them to DNxHD. Once in that format, Avid works great.

I've also used the DR-HD100 HDD recorder to shoot footage on a GY-HD100, and then imported the .m2t files directly into Xpress Pro HD, and it worked fine. I imported using both the DNxHD and the DVCPro HD CODECS. I did not have to use MPEG Streamclip in my case.

Steve Benner · November 5th, 2006, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Hicks

I've also used the DR-HD100 HDD recorder to shoot footage on a GY-HD100, and then imported the .m2t files directly into Xpress Pro HD, and it worked fine. I imported using both the DNxHD and the DVCPro HD CODECS. I did not have to use MPEG Streamclip in my case.

I am referring to 720/24P. Avid has no direct import support to my knowledge.

Antony Michael Wilson · November 5th, 2006, 06:32 AM

Yes, it's the 24 and 25fps support that's the problem and that covers a big chunck of the world outside North America by default and anyone in North America and the rest of the NTSC world who want/need to work in 24p. Since 720p/30 and 720p/25 are very rare standards for broadcast, 720p/24 would seem to be the most useful feature of the 100/110. When the worlds' most established NLE doesn't support it after 18 months of promises one wonders what is going on.

Carl, how is the relationship between JVC and Avid - particularly in Europe?

Hamad Abdulla · November 5th, 2006, 08:13 AM

Thanks for everyone who got back...

So, there's no solution to the problem? But it doesn't make sense our Avid HD system is one of the latest and most up-to-date HD editing suites and when we purchased it, the resellers promised that it supports anything and everything HD or HDV. So, there must be a way around this problem right?

Garrison Hayes · November 5th, 2006, 08:43 AM

What About Avid Xpress Pro HD version 5.1.2? I think they got that all patched up in that version.

Hamad Abdulla · November 5th, 2006, 09:01 AM

Doesn't make sense... I've got what's higher than the Avid Xpress Pro!

Garrison Hayes · November 5th, 2006, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hamad Abdulla

Doesn't make sense... I've got what's higher than the Avid Xpress Pro!

Thats all well and good...but do you have ...Pro HD? It's a pretty big difference.

Hamad Abdulla · November 5th, 2006, 02:15 PM

Is there any out? Any possible converters?

Antony Michael Wilson · November 5th, 2006, 02:55 PM

No, Xpress Pro HD does NOT offer anything extra over MC. It certainly does not support all HD formats including some DVCPro HD variants. No Avid product except the recently acquired Liquid offers native support for HDV1 at 24 or 25fps. Don't believe the Avid hype, guys.

If you have Adrenaline, the best solution is to buy a HDV-HDSDI converter and capture a baseband HD-SDI signal as DNx as cross-converted 1080i, which would effectively be 1080PsF, of course. You can capture into 1080p or i Avid projects. I would suggest the Convergent Design HD Connect LE. Check out the Convergent homepage. If you have the HD 250 then you already have baseband HDSDI but Avid still cannot work at 720p/25 or 50 in any codec. Native HDV1 support from Avid will come at some point across the range - all the way from Xpress Pro to Symphony Nitris. We were promised it last autumn, then it was 'wait for NAB2006' then the official line became 'Q4 2006' and now I have been told by Avid themselves that it may drift into next year. I'm not making that up, it's not speculation - I was told that by Avid officially.

If you're dependent on Avid systems and you need to start shooting now, JVC's camera gear is not the ideal solution. If you can wait, fine, but otherwise I'd go for XDCAM HD.

Stephen L. Noe · November 5th, 2006, 03:18 PM

If you are going with the HD-250 you can use Liquid Chrome HD which is designed to work with it's m2t datastream and HD-SDI input without issue.

They (JVC) are bundling Liquid with ProHD for a good reason, it supports the format completely. Another user is using Liquid to capture the video and then batch to a format that Composer can understand. If you need to work in Composer exclusively, it may be a good idea to pick up the Liquid (software only) system to get your footage in and processed.

S.Noe

Shaun Wilson · November 5th, 2006, 05:19 PM

Just to clarify - Xpress Pro HD does not exist any more. They dropped the HD a couple of versions back, it's just Xpress Pro 5.6 now.

Quote:

So, there's no solution to the problem? But it doesn't make sense our Avid HD system is one of the latest and most up-to-date HD editing suites and when we purchased it, the resellers promised that it supports anything and everything HD or HDV. So, there must be a way around this problem right?

Nope. Unless you capture outside XPro, convert to 1080p, then import & edit at that res.

Current word is December for 720p25/24, but if that gets pushed to next year, I will be one unsurprised customer.

Hamad Abdulla · November 6th, 2006, 01:33 AM

So, I should purchase the Avid Liquid 7.0 software and install it onto my Avid MC HD system and everything will be OK?

Thanks a lot for everybody's advice by the way!

November 3rd, 2006, 08:24 AM	#1
Hamad Abdulla Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Manama, Kingdom of Bahrain Posts: 82	Avid and JVC HD Hi, I was wondering if anybody had any information on this, is the JVC ProHD 251E Camcorder and the JVC VTR BR-HD50 compatible with the editing suite I own Avid Adrenaline HD? I don’t think that there should be any problems, but if there is any is there like any upgrading software? Thanks Hamad

November 5th, 2006, 08:43 AM	#8
Garrison Hayes Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Atlanta, Ga USA Posts: 110	C'mon guys...give Avid some credit. What About Avid Xpress Pro HD version 5.1.2? I think they got that all patched up in that version. __________________ I'm in love... With my Panasonic AG-DVX100B. Triple M.

November 5th, 2006, 03:18 PM	#13
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	If you are going with the HD-250 you can use Liquid Chrome HD which is designed to work with it's m2t datastream and HD-SDI input without issue. They (JVC) are bundling Liquid with ProHD for a good reason, it supports the format completely. Another user is using Liquid to capture the video and then batch to a format that Composer can understand. If you need to work in Composer exclusively, it may be a good idea to pick up the Liquid (software only) system to get your footage in and processed. S.Noe __________________ Advanced Avid Liquid Training found Here

November 3rd, 2006, 11:38 AM	#2
Antony Michael Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 343	Yes, there are huge problems with Avid support for HDV1/ProHD at 24fps or 25fps on Xpress Pro, Media Composer (soft or Adrenaline) and Symphony Nitris: there is no support whatsoever!!! 30fps support is weak. So this probably affects you. Run a search and you'll see all the horrific details. The short version to this sorry story is that Avid have been promising since September last year and keep failing to deliver. Avid Liquid is the exception and it supports HDV1 just fine. You also have some options with DS. As things stand, the HD250 is not a good companion to your edit kit.

November 3rd, 2006, 11:48 AM	#3
Steve Benner Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 590	My workaround for Avid Xpress Pro is to shoot with the DR-HD100 and take the native .m2t files into MPEG STREAMCLIP and convert them to DNxHD. Once in that format, Avid works great.

November 5th, 2006, 06:32 AM	#6
Antony Michael Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 343	Yes, it's the 24 and 25fps support that's the problem and that covers a big chunck of the world outside North America by default and anyone in North America and the rest of the NTSC world who want/need to work in 24p. Since 720p/30 and 720p/25 are very rare standards for broadcast, 720p/24 would seem to be the most useful feature of the 100/110. When the worlds' most established NLE doesn't support it after 18 months of promises one wonders what is going on. Carl, how is the relationship between JVC and Avid - particularly in Europe?

November 5th, 2006, 08:13 AM	#7
Hamad Abdulla Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Manama, Kingdom of Bahrain Posts: 82	Thanks for everyone who got back... So, there's no solution to the problem? But it doesn't make sense our Avid HD system is one of the latest and most up-to-date HD editing suites and when we purchased it, the resellers promised that it supports anything and everything HD or HDV. So, there must be a way around this problem right?

November 5th, 2006, 09:01 AM	#9
Hamad Abdulla Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Manama, Kingdom of Bahrain Posts: 82	Doesn't make sense... I've got what's higher than the Avid Xpress Pro!

November 5th, 2006, 02:15 PM	#11
Hamad Abdulla Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Manama, Kingdom of Bahrain Posts: 82	Is there any out? Any possible converters?

November 5th, 2006, 02:55 PM	#12
Antony Michael Wilson Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 343	No, Xpress Pro HD does NOT offer anything extra over MC. It certainly does not support all HD formats including some DVCPro HD variants. No Avid product except the recently acquired Liquid offers native support for HDV1 at 24 or 25fps. Don't believe the Avid hype, guys. If you have Adrenaline, the best solution is to buy a HDV-HDSDI converter and capture a baseband HD-SDI signal as DNx as cross-converted 1080i, which would effectively be 1080PsF, of course. You can capture into 1080p or i Avid projects. I would suggest the Convergent Design HD Connect LE. Check out the Convergent homepage. If you have the HD 250 then you already have baseband HDSDI but Avid still cannot work at 720p/25 or 50 in any codec. Native HDV1 support from Avid will come at some point across the range - all the way from Xpress Pro to Symphony Nitris. We were promised it last autumn, then it was 'wait for NAB2006' then the official line became 'Q4 2006' and now I have been told by Avid themselves that it may drift into next year. I'm not making that up, it's not speculation - I was told that by Avid officially. If you're dependent on Avid systems and you need to start shooting now, JVC's camera gear is not the ideal solution. If you can wait, fine, but otherwise I'd go for XDCAM HD.

November 6th, 2006, 01:33 AM	#15
Hamad Abdulla Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Manama, Kingdom of Bahrain Posts: 82	So, I should purchase the Avid Liquid 7.0 software and install it onto my Avid MC HD system and everything will be OK? Thanks a lot for everybody's advice by the way!