Avid / Pinnacle discussions from 2003

William Wallick · April 24th, 2003, 03:57 PM

I am capturing in normal mode (60i) same as the GL1, which works.
Bill

Jeff Donald · April 25th, 2003, 07:31 AM

Have you posted this on the Avid site? They have a very active user forum. I have one contact with a DVX100 and an Avid but he is using a later version (3.5.X I think) and running XP. He's out of town for the weekend, but I left a message. I'm 99.99% sure it works on his version.

The camera may not pass audio live from the camera, it may be a design limitation.

William Wallick · April 25th, 2003, 10:17 AM

Thanks Jeff:

I did post on the Avid forum, but I didn't get a response, which seems unusual considering the popularity of the DVX 100.

I hadn't really considered the camera design as the culprit, but it is possible. I have not enough equipment to test it. I doknow that it passes analog audio just fine, as I do that a lot.

I would be interested to hear what your friend says about it.
Thanks,
Bill

Jeff Donald · April 25th, 2003, 10:49 AM

Well, I follow up on Monday when he's back in town. Until then, anyone else have an idea?

Michael Prediger · May 5th, 2003, 12:56 PM

Hi guys. I just purchased my GL2, Yay!, and I'm looking at different NLE's. I have Premiere from a while back and I hate it. I also picked up Vegas 4.0 and it's really nice. However, being a techno weenie, I'm thinking of moving to Avid Xpress DV because it's basically THE pro editor of choice, right? I've done a lot of cutting on Discreet's Edit as well. I'm just wondering if folks here that are using Avid and have taken the time to learn it think that it can do all that Vegas can do and more. How's the plugin support? I'm also using AE 5.5 and Boris for a lot of stuff so compatibility is an issue.

I just want to take the time to learn something that will always be around and be an industry leader. I figure if you're going to spend a lot of time with something, it might as well be the best right? I had the same dilemma when I built my home recording studio...started out using Cakewalk, but moved to Pro Tools because it was the industry standard. I don't regret that move, but will I regret moving to Avid??? Opinions??

Thanks,
Michael

Richard Alvarez · May 5th, 2003, 03:08 PM

No way in the world for anyone to know in advance what you will regret later.... if you don't know.

Lot of people on the board here are very happy with Vegas. It's MUCH cheaper and will do a lot of the same things. (Though the workflow is different. Some say more intuitive, but I think it all depends on what your prior experience is.) There are a couple of threads going on right now about VEGAS being bought by Sony, and how it is a good/bad thing. Read them and draw your own conclusions.

I edit on Avid. I bought it (with the powerpack) because I was looking to be able to walk into an advanced suite and still be comfortable on the interface. (MC or Symphony) I bought it because I wanted to CUT FILM ( you need a film matchback program to do this... Avid's is the best.) Avids color correction tools are superb.

Avid comes with a full Boris Package, and Graffitti, and it comes with a copy for Mac as well, (should you need to go cross-platform or if at some point you decide to switch to Mac.) It's got lots of third party support. The AVID codec is great, and can be used in other systems. (Yeah, you can work in AE too)

Avid's been around a while, and is not likely to dissapear anytime soon.

The new XpressDV pro is set to be released in June. It will INCLUDE the powerpack, the full boris, the full grafiti AND some upgrades to the interface that make it practically identical to the Symphony interface. All this at a price that is less than I paid last year for the powerpack edition. 3.5 is the same price as FCP right now.... $999

XpressPro can be bundled with the new MOJO Digital Nonlinear Accelerator to give you all sorts of realtime uncompressed options... though the hardwares not due out till June as well.

Now then, if you are NOT cutting film, NOT likely to be offlining and need to take a project up to a finishing suite, or don't need to generate accurate edls or cutlists... you might save your money and go with another NLE. Some do other things better.

Only you can decide.

For more info on AVID go to www.avid.com

Michael Prediger · May 5th, 2003, 03:59 PM

Thanks for the input Richard. Since I'm never going to "cut film", I think I may be better served with Vegas or something similar. It's unfortunate that FCP is only available to the MAC, as that package seems to have the biggest following. The recent acquisition of Vegas by Sony is very troubling. As a witness to several large corporate acquistions, I've seen great products go to the crapper because of poor management decisions and I'd hate to get comfortable with a dying editor....not that Vegas' demise is a foregone conclusion.

Perhaps I'll stick it out and see what happens. It would be nice if Vegas were to take off and become the FCP of the PC world!!

Thanks again for taking the time out to share your thoughts.

K. Forman · May 5th, 2003, 04:27 PM

Indeed, Avid and FCP are two of the top tools used by pros, as well as Media 100. If you plan on cutting and editing for somebody in a studio, these are the ones to learn. You'll likely only find Premiere and Vegas in home studios, but not absolutely. In addition, alot of places look for After Effects experience.

Michael Chen · May 5th, 2003, 10:05 PM

Yes. Go for avid.
It has one of the more powerful colour correction tools in NLE.

Aaron Koolen · May 5th, 2003, 10:31 PM

I have used Avid Xpress DV for a few projects (not an expert by far) and I now use Vegas. I switched mainly because I couldn't afford Avid when I set upmy own studio. After using Vegas for a while I prefer it for most things. I find the interface is more user friendly, and I feel Avid's is like some ported interface from some other OS (Is this the case? I'm not sure of Avids history). I found things like window movement, list refreshes, edit boxes and simple things like that are untidy in Avid and I hate untidyness. Vegas is slick and fast and if Vegas had the left-click drag for moving the timeline cursor (Without changing the selection), like Avid does then I think it's interface would be pretty damned perfect for me.

I do like Avid's colour correction with colour matching, and haven't found anything the same in Vegas (Please tell me I'm blind, I can only see a Mid, Low, High match but I want the lot in one go.)

I like all the built in stuff in Vegas for transitions, credits and all that and Vegas has some good built in Audio filters (Guess that's a bonus with SoFo's stuff)

So for me I think it's the general interface feel and price that I like. If I wanted to learn a product so that I could get work or move to a pro studio then I'd have gone with Avid, but I do my own projects and don't need anything else.

Cheers
Aaron

Brendan Getchel · May 6th, 2003, 09:35 AM

It's all about YOU!

I am an Avid Xpress DV authorized dealer (the only one in CT, if you check their web page). I switched to Avid-only after selling Premiere-based Pinnacle and Canopus RT system and having nothing but problems. Avid is far, far more stable and the workflow is second to none. That's Avid's emphasis -- workflow.

That said, I am fairly impressed with Vegas. For the money it is the undisputed Champeen. If you don't have serious future upgrade plans, and this is just for amateur use, then I can't see spending all that extra money on Avid.

Richard Alvarez · May 6th, 2003, 09:53 AM

That seems to be a big deciding factor in the choice... your future upgrade path and plans.

Avid XpressDVpro is definitely a part of a mainstream system. Get good on it, and you can easily transition into the professional broadcast, film/tv world.

Since you already own and use protools, you have the best audio for NLE at your disposal already. (Avid owns protools)

The interface on Avid is keyboard based. It works best when you learn to use the keyboard as opposed to the mouse. (Though you can mouse everything as well.) That is why some people find it "hard to use". That and the fact that the paradigm for it's work flow is film editing. THat's what it was originally designed for. That's where the words like "Bin" and "Heads/tails" comes from. It is exceptional at media management. This is one of the "Big improvements" that Vegas recently innovated. They are trying to be better at managing HUGE numbers of files that are common in long form projects.

If your future is strictly dv, and short form at that... Avid might be a bit of overkill.

William Wallick · May 10th, 2003, 12:17 AM

Jeff:

Did you have a chance to talk to your friend about trying this?

Thanks,
WW

Jeff Donald · May 10th, 2003, 07:10 AM

Sorry, I did hear back and I forgot to post. It appears that his is working the same as yours. It captures video but no sound. No explanation. You might want to contact Panasonic on this issue. I would be curious on their response..

Sorry again for the delay.

William Wallick · May 15th, 2003, 09:09 PM

Hi Steve:

I wonder if you have any suggestions regarding a DVX100 problem I am having.

I am trying to capture live from my DVX 100 to Xpress DV. No tape, just direct to the hard drive.

I can capture video but no audio! I think this is a DVX100 problem rather than an avid problem because I can capture live video & audio with a Canon GL1 just fine.

Of course going to tape on the DVX 100 works fine, both audio & video.

Do you have any idea what's going on?

Thanks,
Bill

April 25th, 2003, 07:31 AM	#32
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Have you posted this on the Avid site? They have a very active user forum. I have one contact with a DVX100 and an Avid but he is using a later version (3.5.X I think) and running XP. He's out of town for the weekend, but I left a message. I'm 99.99% sure it works on his version. The camera may not pass audio live from the camera, it may be a design limitation. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 25th, 2003, 10:49 AM	#34
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Well, I follow up on Monday when he's back in town. Until then, anyone else have an idea? __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 5th, 2003, 12:56 PM	#35
Michael Prediger New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 12	To Avid or not to Avid?..... Hi guys. I just purchased my GL2, Yay!, and I'm looking at different NLE's. I have Premiere from a while back and I hate it. I also picked up Vegas 4.0 and it's really nice. However, being a techno weenie, I'm thinking of moving to Avid Xpress DV because it's basically THE pro editor of choice, right? I've done a lot of cutting on Discreet's Edit as well. I'm just wondering if folks here that are using Avid and have taken the time to learn it think that it can do all that Vegas can do and more. How's the plugin support? I'm also using AE 5.5 and Boris for a lot of stuff so compatibility is an issue. I just want to take the time to learn something that will always be around and be an industry leader. I figure if you're going to spend a lot of time with something, it might as well be the best right? I had the same dilemma when I built my home recording studio...started out using Cakewalk, but moved to Pro Tools because it was the industry standard. I don't regret that move, but will I regret moving to Avid??? Opinions?? Thanks, Michael __________________ cut...Cut.....CUT!!!!

May 5th, 2003, 03:59 PM	#37
Michael Prediger New Boot Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 12	Sounds like a plan! Thanks for the input Richard. Since I'm never going to "cut film", I think I may be better served with Vegas or something similar. It's unfortunate that FCP is only available to the MAC, as that package seems to have the biggest following. The recent acquisition of Vegas by Sony is very troubling. As a witness to several large corporate acquistions, I've seen great products go to the crapper because of poor management decisions and I'd hate to get comfortable with a dying editor....not that Vegas' demise is a foregone conclusion. Perhaps I'll stick it out and see what happens. It would be nice if Vegas were to take off and become the FCP of the PC world!! Thanks again for taking the time out to share your thoughts. __________________ cut...Cut.....CUT!!!!

May 6th, 2003, 09:35 AM	#41
Brendan Getchel Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Waterbury, CT Posts: 101	It's all about YOU! I am an Avid Xpress DV authorized dealer (the only one in CT, if you check their web page). I switched to Avid-only after selling Premiere-based Pinnacle and Canopus RT system and having nothing but problems. Avid is far, far more stable and the workflow is second to none. That's Avid's emphasis -- workflow. That said, I am fairly impressed with Vegas. For the money it is the undisputed Champeen. If you don't have serious future upgrade plans, and this is just for amateur use, then I can't see spending all that extra money on Avid. __________________ Dumb Guy.

April 24th, 2003, 03:57 PM	#31
William Wallick Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 27	I am capturing in normal mode (60i) same as the GL1, which works. Bill

April 25th, 2003, 10:17 AM	#33
William Wallick Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 27	Thanks Jeff: I did post on the Avid forum, but I didn't get a response, which seems unusual considering the popularity of the DVX 100. I hadn't really considered the camera design as the culprit, but it is possible. I have not enough equipment to test it. I doknow that it passes analog audio just fine, as I do that a lot. I would be interested to hear what your friend says about it. Thanks, Bill

May 5th, 2003, 03:08 PM	#36
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	No way in the world for anyone to know in advance what you will regret later.... if you don't know. Lot of people on the board here are very happy with Vegas. It's MUCH cheaper and will do a lot of the same things. (Though the workflow is different. Some say more intuitive, but I think it all depends on what your prior experience is.) There are a couple of threads going on right now about VEGAS being bought by Sony, and how it is a good/bad thing. Read them and draw your own conclusions. I edit on Avid. I bought it (with the powerpack) because I was looking to be able to walk into an advanced suite and still be comfortable on the interface. (MC or Symphony) I bought it because I wanted to CUT FILM ( you need a film matchback program to do this... Avid's is the best.) Avids color correction tools are superb. Avid comes with a full Boris Package, and Graffitti, and it comes with a copy for Mac as well, (should you need to go cross-platform or if at some point you decide to switch to Mac.) It's got lots of third party support. The AVID codec is great, and can be used in other systems. (Yeah, you can work in AE too) Avid's been around a while, and is not likely to dissapear anytime soon. The new XpressDV pro is set to be released in June. It will INCLUDE the powerpack, the full boris, the full grafiti AND some upgrades to the interface that make it practically identical to the Symphony interface. All this at a price that is less than I paid last year for the powerpack edition. 3.5 is the same price as FCP right now.... $999 XpressPro can be bundled with the new MOJO Digital Nonlinear Accelerator to give you all sorts of realtime uncompressed options... though the hardwares not due out till June as well. Now then, if you are NOT cutting film, NOT likely to be offlining and need to take a project up to a finishing suite, or don't need to generate accurate edls or cutlists... you might save your money and go with another NLE. Some do other things better. Only you can decide. For more info on AVID go to www.avid.com

May 5th, 2003, 04:27 PM	#38
K. Forman Capt. Quirk Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Middle of the woods in Georgia Posts: 3,596	Indeed, Avid and FCP are two of the top tools used by pros, as well as Media 100. If you plan on cutting and editing for somebody in a studio, these are the ones to learn. You'll likely only find Premiere and Vegas in home studios, but not absolutely. In addition, alot of places look for After Effects experience.

May 5th, 2003, 10:05 PM	#39
Michael Chen Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Singapore Posts: 163	Yes. Go for avid. It has one of the more powerful colour correction tools in NLE.

May 5th, 2003, 10:31 PM	#40
Aaron Koolen Trustee Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,727	I have used Avid Xpress DV for a few projects (not an expert by far) and I now use Vegas. I switched mainly because I couldn't afford Avid when I set upmy own studio. After using Vegas for a while I prefer it for most things. I find the interface is more user friendly, and I feel Avid's is like some ported interface from some other OS (Is this the case? I'm not sure of Avids history). I found things like window movement, list refreshes, edit boxes and simple things like that are untidy in Avid and I hate untidyness. Vegas is slick and fast and if Vegas had the left-click drag for moving the timeline cursor (Without changing the selection), like Avid does then I think it's interface would be pretty damned perfect for me. I do like Avid's colour correction with colour matching, and haven't found anything the same in Vegas (Please tell me I'm blind, I can only see a Mid, Low, High match but I want the lot in one go.) I like all the built in stuff in Vegas for transitions, credits and all that and Vegas has some good built in Audio filters (Guess that's a bonus with SoFo's stuff) So for me I think it's the general interface feel and price that I like. If I wanted to learn a product so that I could get work or move to a pro studio then I'd have gone with Avid, but I do my own projects and don't need anything else. Cheers Aaron

May 6th, 2003, 09:53 AM	#42
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	That seems to be a big deciding factor in the choice... your future upgrade path and plans. Avid XpressDVpro is definitely a part of a mainstream system. Get good on it, and you can easily transition into the professional broadcast, film/tv world. Since you already own and use protools, you have the best audio for NLE at your disposal already. (Avid owns protools) The interface on Avid is keyboard based. It works best when you learn to use the keyboard as opposed to the mouse. (Though you can mouse everything as well.) That is why some people find it "hard to use". That and the fact that the paradigm for it's work flow is film editing. THat's what it was originally designed for. That's where the words like "Bin" and "Heads/tails" comes from. It is exceptional at media management. This is one of the "Big improvements" that Vegas recently innovated. They are trying to be better at managing HUGE numbers of files that are common in long form projects. If your future is strictly dv, and short form at that... Avid might be a bit of overkill.

May 10th, 2003, 12:17 AM	#43
William Wallick Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 27	Jeff: Did you have a chance to talk to your friend about trying this? Thanks, WW

May 10th, 2003, 07:10 AM	#44
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Sorry, I did hear back and I forgot to post. It appears that his is working the same as yours. It captures video but no sound. No explanation. You might want to contact Panasonic on this issue. I would be curious on their response.. Sorry again for the delay. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 15th, 2003, 09:09 PM	#45
William Wallick Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 27	Hello Steve Mullen Hi Steve: I wonder if you have any suggestions regarding a DVX100 problem I am having. I am trying to capture live from my DVX 100 to Xpress DV. No tape, just direct to the hard drive. I can capture video but no audio! I think this is a DVX100 problem rather than an avid problem because I can capture live video & audio with a Canon GL1 just fine. Of course going to tape on the DVX 100 works fine, both audio & video. Do you have any idea what's going on? Thanks, Bill