Avid's HDV FAQ at DVinfo.net

Adam Rench · February 3rd, 2005, 12:19 PM

Q: How will Avid's support for HDV work?
A: In 2005, Avid will provide the industry’s best support for HDV, in both 720p and 1080i varieties, as part of an exceptionally flexible HD workflow.

We begin with native support for HDV. Contrast this with other products that require a time- and disk-consuming render to an intermediate format before editing can even begin, force video and audio files to be handled separately, and manage the entire process with cutlists created in an external application. Instead, Avid Xpress Pro HD will support fully native HDV MPEG media, edited frame-accurately with effects in real time.

Like other digital camera formats that provide outstanding images, HDV is not a format optimized for compositing and animation. Avid DNxHD, on the other hand, is a mastering-quality HD format that is engineered from the ground up for the rigors of post-production, including multi-layer and multi-generation composites, titles and graphic animation, in the same storage and bandwidth as uncompressed SD media. As a result, Avid DNxHD can be combined with HDV in the same timeline, in real time – even for playback on most laptops.

In fact, you’ll be able to mix HDV and DNxHD with a wide variety of formats inside Avid Xpress Pro HD, including DVCPro HD, DV50, DV25, offline film resolutions, uncompressed SD and more – on the same timeline, in real time. That means you’ll be able to use archival footage in new projects, as well as footage acquired from multiple cameras and sources. Instead of being forced into a specific workflow before you’re ready, you’ll be able to make a graceful transition from DV and SD production to HD production. Nobody else will be able to offer an HDV story that’s anywhere near this complete and this flexible.
Look for HDV support as a free upgrade for Avid Xpress Pro HD customers in mid-2005.

Kevin Shaw · February 3rd, 2005, 06:52 PM

Yawn. Other companies are already doing pretty much everything described in this announcement: Pinnacle Liquid Edition can edit native HDV in real time, and Canopus Edius NX / SP can mix and match all sorts of formats on the timeline with real-time editing and real-time HD monitoring output. I don't see anything here that would make me want to wait another six months for Avid to get their act together, but I suppose it's good news that they're still working on support for HDV as the format approaches its second anniversary...

Filip Kovcin · February 3rd, 2005, 07:46 PM

is anyone around who worked with mentioned before hardwae/sofware solutions for HDV?

maybe you can share your opinions, problems etc.

thanks

filip

Kevin Shaw · February 3rd, 2005, 09:45 PM

See the Canopus forums for discussions of their hardware/software HDV editing products:

http://forum.canopus.com

Adam Rench · February 3rd, 2005, 10:05 PM

I'm going to be going to an Avid HD / HDV workflow seminar next week. I'll hopefully get some good looks at what I'll be able to do with my Avid system there. I'll post what I can after I get back. I'm going on the 10th. :)

Dylan Pank · February 4th, 2005, 06:27 AM

Interesting - Who is running the seminar?

Adam Rench · February 4th, 2005, 09:25 AM

MMG - Midwest Media Group

This was a little about what they said in the flyer for the seminar.

Come see Avid(r) DNxHD(tm) and Ikegami in a collaborative SD and HD workflow environment. Learn how this affordable workflow puts HD within easy reach.

At this seminar, you will discover how Avid DNxHD affords you the freedom to work in HD while utilizing your SD infrastructure, and yet maintains original image quality with 10-bit Avid DNxHD encoding. See how these leading Avid solutions interact with the Ikegami Editcam.

Filip Kovcin · February 4th, 2005, 10:35 AM

is there ANY words about H-D-V solutions? or just HD - i beleive that most of us are going to find proper solution/workflow to work with HDV not necessary pure HD format.

at least in my "case" i am looking for avid's solution for HDV.

in another words:

GIVE US SOLUTION TO WORK WITH HDV THRU FIREWIRE/1394/ILINK!!!!!!!

filip

Richard Alvarez · February 4th, 2005, 10:40 AM

Filip,

Avid Xpress Pro (V5) already allows for HD editing, the HDV development is whats set for mid-year. Their website pretty much explains it all www.avid.com

Dylan Pank · February 4th, 2005, 12:19 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Culbert Rench : Come see Avid(r) DNxHD(tm) and Ikegami in a collaborative SD and HD workflow environment. Learn how this affordable workflow puts HD within easy reach.

At this seminar, you will discover how Avid DNxHD affords you the freedom to work in HD while utilizing your SD infrastructure, and yet maintains original image quality with 10-bit Avid DNxHD encoding. See how these leading Avid solutions interact with the Ikegami Editcam. -->>>

Culbert - this very distinct from HDV. No doubt you could edit SD material in a DNxHD system, but it's not generally what we think of as a native HDV solution. It's rather like transfering to Digibeta to edit native DV material which is done in some professional situations, but not really what one would think of as a DV solution.

There is a big difference implied in the term HDV (extremely specific) from mere HD (very general).

BTW I heard at VideoForum (not directly the from Avid reps, I hasten to add) that Avid will be going with a native MPEG2 solution, as opposed to the Avid/Cineform style intermediate codec approach.

Filip Kovcin · February 4th, 2005, 01:56 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Richard Alvarez : Filip,

Avid Xpress Pro (V5) already allows for HD editing, the HDV development is whats set for mid-year. Their website pretty much explains it all www.avid.com -->>>

Richard,

thank you for your input, i already know that avid will ship HDV solution later this year, but since my Z1 camera is arriving on monday/tuesday, as you may predict - i'm STARVING to work with HDV in kind of normal way.
i do not want to use it in a strange way - to jump from one solution to another and substitute of this and that...

existing solutions now are similar to polish custom - in poland people may say - "with left hand to the rihgt ear". (which means - if you try to touch with left hand your right ear it will be much more complicated then to touch it with right hand - which is simplest way on earth)

i know about canopus and pinnacle etc. but i do not need to learn (and buy) another one system for editing if i already have avid.

but aivd 5.0 for now is not the solution for HDV. so i cannot stand this situation.

i am using FCp as well - but this is not the place (this thread) to talk about it.

obviously avid hdv solution is not around. for now.
and definitelly until monday/tuesday it will not be around, at least in poland :)

filip

Adam Rench · February 4th, 2005, 02:37 PM

that's the description of the seminar, but they included HDV in the title of the seminar.

"Midwest Media Group, in association with Avid Technology and Ikegami, presents:

Pre-NAB HD & HDV Workflow Tour"

I knew that there would be a lot of HD stuff there, but I'm hoping for some peeks at some HDV as well since they mentioned it in the title. I'll let you all know what info I get my hands on.

I'm willing to wait 5 months though to use Avid. If you think about it, the first HDV camera that came out was a huge story. However, that camera is not really desired by many because it's not quite as functional as what most of are needs are. However, the newer HDV cameras are seeing what is lacking and have put into place some improvements. I see this as sort of what Avid is doing. They see the others working on a HDV editing solution, and while they just sit back and see what's going on, they are creating their masterpiece.

I'm hoping this is true because I have an avid system. :)

Kevin Shaw · February 4th, 2005, 08:26 PM

<<<I see this as sort of what Avid is doing. They see the others working on a HDV editing solution, and while they just sit back and see what's going on, they are creating their masterpiece. >>>

Yeah, that's the same excuse I keep hearing on behalf of a certain other company which has been slow to respond to the HDV format. But seriously, Avid is now the only major software editing company which doesn't have *any* shipping solution for dealing with HDV, and this well over a year after the format officially became available in the marketplace. It doesn't really matter how good a solution they're developing if you want to buy and use the cameras now, which many people are doing. In this day and age you can't afford to be late to market if you want to be taken seriously...and then when Avid does finally ship their HDV solution they'll have to take more time to work out any bugs.

Richard Alvarez · February 4th, 2005, 10:54 PM

I think Avid's market is for people like me. Who will wait to enter HDV later, when the bugs and formats have shaken out. Some people are early adapters, some companies are too. Some people get burned being on the bleeding edge, some companies do too. Some people 'steal a march' and get the early worm, some companies do to. It's just a choice of philosophies.

Adam Rench · February 5th, 2005, 10:06 AM

Yeah. I agree Richard. I know that the HDV format will be a great thing, but it's still in its infant stages.

I remember buying a model car that was the first year it was released. It looked like a really cool car, but there were so many problems with it I had to get rid of it and get a proven car.

I'm thinking that Avid will be proven by the time they release HDV support. They will have had enough time to test and two HDV formats to test on too. Since they aren't rushing into the market they aren't going to put out a faulty product just to appease the newly adopted market.

I'll be happy when they release support for it. Until then however, I do use Premiere Pro, but it's nothing like using an Avid system (at least to me).

February 3rd, 2005, 12:19 PM	#1
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	Avid's HDV FAQ Q: How will Avid's support for HDV work? A: In 2005, Avid will provide the industry’s best support for HDV, in both 720p and 1080i varieties, as part of an exceptionally flexible HD workflow. We begin with native support for HDV. Contrast this with other products that require a time- and disk-consuming render to an intermediate format before editing can even begin, force video and audio files to be handled separately, and manage the entire process with cutlists created in an external application. Instead, Avid Xpress Pro HD will support fully native HDV MPEG media, edited frame-accurately with effects in real time. Like other digital camera formats that provide outstanding images, HDV is not a format optimized for compositing and animation. Avid DNxHD, on the other hand, is a mastering-quality HD format that is engineered from the ground up for the rigors of post-production, including multi-layer and multi-generation composites, titles and graphic animation, in the same storage and bandwidth as uncompressed SD media. As a result, Avid DNxHD can be combined with HDV in the same timeline, in real time – even for playback on most laptops. In fact, you’ll be able to mix HDV and DNxHD with a wide variety of formats inside Avid Xpress Pro HD, including DVCPro HD, DV50, DV25, offline film resolutions, uncompressed SD and more – on the same timeline, in real time. That means you’ll be able to use archival footage in new projects, as well as footage acquired from multiple cameras and sources. Instead of being forced into a specific workflow before you’re ready, you’ll be able to make a graceful transition from DV and SD production to HD production. Nobody else will be able to offer an HDV story that’s anywhere near this complete and this flexible. Look for HDV support as a free upgrade for Avid Xpress Pro HD customers in mid-2005.

February 3rd, 2005, 06:52 PM	#2
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	Yawn. Other companies are already doing pretty much everything described in this announcement: Pinnacle Liquid Edition can edit native HDV in real time, and Canopus Edius NX / SP can mix and match all sorts of formats on the timeline with real-time editing and real-time HD monitoring output. I don't see anything here that would make me want to wait another six months for Avid to get their act together, but I suppose it's good news that they're still working on support for HDV as the format approaches its second anniversary...

February 3rd, 2005, 07:46 PM	#3
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	is anyone around who worked with mentioned before hardwae/sofware solutions for HDV? maybe you can share your opinions, problems etc. thanks filip

February 3rd, 2005, 09:45 PM	#4
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	See the Canopus forums for discussions of their hardware/software HDV editing products: http://forum.canopus.com

February 3rd, 2005, 10:05 PM	#5
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	I'm going to be going to an Avid HD / HDV workflow seminar next week. I'll hopefully get some good looks at what I'll be able to do with my Avid system there. I'll post what I can after I get back. I'm going on the 10th. :)

February 4th, 2005, 06:27 AM	#6
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	Interesting - Who is running the seminar?

February 4th, 2005, 09:25 AM	#7
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	MMG - Midwest Media Group This was a little about what they said in the flyer for the seminar. Come see Avid(r) DNxHD(tm) and Ikegami in a collaborative SD and HD workflow environment. Learn how this affordable workflow puts HD within easy reach. At this seminar, you will discover how Avid DNxHD affords you the freedom to work in HD while utilizing your SD infrastructure, and yet maintains original image quality with 10-bit Avid DNxHD encoding. See how these leading Avid solutions interact with the Ikegami Editcam.

February 4th, 2005, 10:35 AM	#8
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	is there ANY words about H-D-V solutions? or just HD - i beleive that most of us are going to find proper solution/workflow to work with HDV not necessary pure HD format. at least in my "case" i am looking for avid's solution for HDV. in another words: GIVE US SOLUTION TO WORK WITH HDV THRU FIREWIRE/1394/ILINK!!!!!!! filip

February 4th, 2005, 10:40 AM	#9
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Filip, Avid Xpress Pro (V5) already allows for HD editing, the HDV development is whats set for mid-year. Their website pretty much explains it all www.avid.com

February 4th, 2005, 12:19 PM	#10
Dylan Pank Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Portsmouth, UK Posts: 611	<<<-- Originally posted by Culbert Rench : Come see Avid(r) DNxHD(tm) and Ikegami in a collaborative SD and HD workflow environment. Learn how this affordable workflow puts HD within easy reach. At this seminar, you will discover how Avid DNxHD affords you the freedom to work in HD while utilizing your SD infrastructure, and yet maintains original image quality with 10-bit Avid DNxHD encoding. See how these leading Avid solutions interact with the Ikegami Editcam. -->>> Culbert - this very distinct from HDV. No doubt you could edit SD material in a DNxHD system, but it's not generally what we think of as a native HDV solution. It's rather like transfering to Digibeta to edit native DV material which is done in some professional situations, but not really what one would think of as a DV solution. There is a big difference implied in the term HDV (extremely specific) from mere HD (very general). BTW I heard at VideoForum (not directly the from Avid reps, I hasten to add) that Avid will be going with a native MPEG2 solution, as opposed to the Avid/Cineform style intermediate codec approach.

February 4th, 2005, 01:56 PM	#11
Filip Kovcin Major Player Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: warsaw, poland Posts: 440	<<<-- Originally posted by Richard Alvarez : Filip, Avid Xpress Pro (V5) already allows for HD editing, the HDV development is whats set for mid-year. Their website pretty much explains it all www.avid.com -->>> Richard, thank you for your input, i already know that avid will ship HDV solution later this year, but since my Z1 camera is arriving on monday/tuesday, as you may predict - i'm STARVING to work with HDV in kind of normal way. i do not want to use it in a strange way - to jump from one solution to another and substitute of this and that... existing solutions now are similar to polish custom - in poland people may say - "with left hand to the rihgt ear". (which means - if you try to touch with left hand your right ear it will be much more complicated then to touch it with right hand - which is simplest way on earth) i know about canopus and pinnacle etc. but i do not need to learn (and buy) another one system for editing if i already have avid. but aivd 5.0 for now is not the solution for HDV. so i cannot stand this situation. i am using FCp as well - but this is not the place (this thread) to talk about it. obviously avid hdv solution is not around. for now. and definitelly until monday/tuesday it will not be around, at least in poland :) filip

February 4th, 2005, 02:37 PM	#12
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	that's the description of the seminar, but they included HDV in the title of the seminar. "Midwest Media Group, in association with Avid Technology and Ikegami, presents: Pre-NAB HD & HDV Workflow Tour" I knew that there would be a lot of HD stuff there, but I'm hoping for some peeks at some HDV as well since they mentioned it in the title. I'll let you all know what info I get my hands on. I'm willing to wait 5 months though to use Avid. If you think about it, the first HDV camera that came out was a huge story. However, that camera is not really desired by many because it's not quite as functional as what most of are needs are. However, the newer HDV cameras are seeing what is lacking and have put into place some improvements. I see this as sort of what Avid is doing. They see the others working on a HDV editing solution, and while they just sit back and see what's going on, they are creating their masterpiece. I'm hoping this is true because I have an avid system. :)

February 4th, 2005, 08:26 PM	#13
Kevin Shaw Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 2,488	<<<I see this as sort of what Avid is doing. They see the others working on a HDV editing solution, and while they just sit back and see what's going on, they are creating their masterpiece. >>> Yeah, that's the same excuse I keep hearing on behalf of a certain other company which has been slow to respond to the HDV format. But seriously, Avid is now the only major software editing company which doesn't have any shipping solution for dealing with HDV, and this well over a year after the format officially became available in the marketplace. It doesn't really matter how good a solution they're developing if you want to buy and use the cameras now, which many people are doing. In this day and age you can't afford to be late to market if you want to be taken seriously...and then when Avid does finally ship their HDV solution they'll have to take more time to work out any bugs.

February 4th, 2005, 10:54 PM	#14
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	I think Avid's market is for people like me. Who will wait to enter HDV later, when the bugs and formats have shaken out. Some people are early adapters, some companies are too. Some people get burned being on the bleeding edge, some companies do too. Some people 'steal a march' and get the early worm, some companies do to. It's just a choice of philosophies.

February 5th, 2005, 10:06 AM	#15
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	Yeah. I agree Richard. I know that the HDV format will be a great thing, but it's still in its infant stages. I remember buying a model car that was the first year it was released. It looked like a really cool car, but there were so many problems with it I had to get rid of it and get a proven car. I'm thinking that Avid will be proven by the time they release HDV support. They will have had enough time to test and two HDV formats to test on too. Since they aren't rushing into the market they aren't going to put out a faulty product just to appease the newly adopted market. I'll be happy when they release support for it. Until then however, I do use Premiere Pro, but it's nothing like using an Avid system (at least to me).