Bah, Performance Issues in Avid Xpress Pro... what to upgrade?

[Bryan Roberts]

Jack - hmmmm, I'm torn then. Since I don't need to buy a whole new Dell system or anything, what do you think a new processor, motherboard and 1.5 gigs of new ram might run (VERY rough ballpark)? My HD's are all 7200 speed drives and have the larger caches (my Maxtor was the best they had available 10 months ago, 240 gig) so I think it's just the motherboard, processor, and new ram. The rest of my setup should be great. God, lagging performance really really bugs me. I don't understand though how Xpress Pro was run two years ago, as my now aging Dell setup was almost the best single processor system Dell had to offer.

[Glenn Chan]

I don't think it's your hardware specs if Avid is really slow with basic stuff. Even if it is your hardware:
A- Better hardware is only marginally faster... at best, it's the new CPU's clock speed divided by yours, plus 25% (for hyperthreading and little changes). A good guestimate of the new machine's speed is the new clock speed divided by the old one.
B- Your Dell probably uses a prioprietary case with a proprietary motherboard with non-standard motherboard standoffs. You need to check case/motherboard compatibility. Hopefully the power supply is ATX standard (some Dells are NOT ATX-compliant; the power supplies look the same but things will get damaged if you swap the wrong stuff in; new Dells are ATX standard).

[Richard Alvarez]

XpressPro didn't run two years ago... it didnt' exist untill last year. Before Pro it was just Xpress... considerably simpler, and ran on NT systems. Avid takes FULL use of your system, the faster the system the faster it runs.

As to "dedicating the entire system to Avid" , sure, that'd be great, but I run Photoshop, Scriptware, and some other music production programs on my computer. I DON'T play games with it however, and try and stay away from "iffy" sites on the web. I turn off the connection while I'm working with Avid.

Version 4.6 by the way requires sp 2 for xp.

[Zack Birlew]

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Roberts : Jack - hmmmm, I'm torn then. Since I don't need to buy a whole new Dell system or anything, what do you think a new processor, motherboard and 1.5 gigs of new ram might run (VERY rough ballpark)? My HD's are all 7200 speed drives and have the larger caches (my Maxtor was the best they had available 10 months ago, 240 gig) so I think it's just the motherboard, processor, and new ram. The rest of my setup should be great. God, lagging performance really really bugs me. I don't understand though how Xpress Pro was run two years ago, as my now aging Dell setup was almost the best single processor system Dell had to offer. -->>>

I don't know if you meant to sound kind of agressive here, but I was just suggesting a solution. Honestly, if it isn't hardware being too slow, then perhaps it is Service Pack 2 for Windows XP? That just crashes my system whenever I try to install it. If not, then I don't know what to tell you, AVID's rough like that. You should see all of the posts on AVID's own message boards about crashing, slow performance (your issue), and compatibility issues. I don't know why such an expensive product would have so many bugs, AVID should seriously think about this.

[Bryan Roberts]

Hmm, all interesting suggestions - Jack - didn't mean to sound aggressive in the least, I truly appreciate your response, I was just thinking out loud and was a bit frustrated with what I spent money on after having easy performance success with other much smaller name brand NLEs and hoping to gain real applicable and professional knowledge in the AVID world....... not sure where to go from here.....

[Rob Lohman]

If Vegas and Premiere (Pro) are running fine then I can't see how
this could be a hardware issue unless Avid has some real problem
with some of your hardware. Personally that would be a good
enough reason to not use it, but ofcourse I don't know if you need
to be able to use it and such.

Again I doubt upgrading your system will be worth the money.
Getting an Avid compliant system might be better in that case?

[Bryan Roberts]

....... sigh. Well, I had to pass up a couple of full time editing jobs in my area that paid very well because they required AVID editing skills for their AVID suites. I can edit in all the other big NLEs but just not AVID (and we all know how it's the most unique of the bunch). So as someone looking to advance my "professional" skills, I set my sights on learning AVID and purchased Xpress Pro (I figured with the min. system requirements, the processor speed was more critical than the RAM since RAM is so easy to update and my processor speed hit way above requirements not to mention running the other NLEs perfectly).

[Richard Alvarez]

Bryan,

I'm not a computer whiz. I don't build them, and I try not to open them. I bought my editing station as a turnkey from DVLine, and get lifetime tech support. Worth every penny and IT runs Pro like a champ.

I say that so you know where I'm comming from when I give technical advice. (So often we all assume if we can send emails, we can rewire a mother board!)

My best advice (guess???) as to your course of action at this point would be -

UPDATE RAM - DDR is preffered, and running more ram won't HURT any of your other applications. Pro says 1 gig min, but 1.5 reccomended. It also says that more ram improves performance.

If nothing happens, THEN update your OS. I reccomend a clean install of XP Pro, not an upgrade, and don't forget SP 2

Again, this is something that will benefit you in the long run anyway.

Only you can determine the best cost/benefit analysis.

AVID does run at speed on small laptops, so I am convinced you have some issues with how your system is configured... but, as I said, I'm no tech guru... wish I was.

[Aaron Koolen]

It seems with Avid, turnkey is the way to go. If you deviate too much from the spec, then you're on your own. Not the way it should really be in this day and age with solid hardware and software specifications, but that's the way Avid seems to be. If you want industry level jobs I don't think you have much choice but to go turnkey.

Aaron

[Bryan Roberts]

Funny - I always saw the uber expensive turnkey systems in BH etc. and thought they were for suckers, like CDR's "specially designed" for music that cost much more than standard CDrs and are found in the music department rather than the computer area. I guess AVID is the exception. I'm going to try a RAM maxout which is 1.5 for my system and see if that helps, otherwise I'll send the RAM back and figure something else out.

[Richard Alvarez]

There are people who build their own and run avid just fine. They have the ability to read the specs and trouble shoot conflicts. I don't have that skillset, so I went turnkey.

The price of a fully built out ready to go system from DVLine was less than the same parts I priced out individually at Fry's. I don't know how they do it.

It is impossible to test all PC combinations and "certify" them, so Avid picks (makes a deal with) a few top brands, and does just that. DVline was the first turnkey builder to meet Avid's specs. Most NLE's don't "certify" any combination.. they just say "minimum specs are xyz" if you have issues, figure it out.

[Dan Euritt]

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Roberts : Now that I've started working with some of my DVX footage and AE files at 24p, the program stutters the video and audio for a few seconds before "catching up" and then playing the material correctly.This is with only one Vid track of an AE project which is 30 seconds long and a clip from a song -->>>

before you start throwing money around, you should do better testing to really understand what the problem is here.

all you have said so far is that you can't playback video from the timeline... that is the most simple thing you can ask of any editor, when the footage is dv format.

you said ae... what codec are the files rendered in? will native dv footage play back fine within avid, or is the problem just with ae files? does rendering within avid affect the problem? etc.

[Cary Lee]

<<<-- Originally posted by Bryan Roberts : Funny - I always saw the uber expensive turnkey systems in BH etc. and thought they were for suckers, like CDR's "specially designed" for music that cost much more than standard CDrs and are found in the music department rather than the computer area. I guess AVID is the exception. I'm going to try a RAM maxout which is 1.5 for my system and see if that helps, otherwise I'll send the RAM back and figure something else out. -->>>

Try this to reset you DMA settings on your IDE/ATAPI controllers. to DMA not P10.

Start-Control Panel-Performance/Maintenance-System-Device Manager-IDE/ATAPI Controllers-Primary IDE Channel-Advance settings-Auto Detection and DMA if Available.

Repeat for secondary IDE Channel. Then reboot.

This should help your hard drive read faster and get rid of the studders. Also Turn off any antivirus or background programs running. If fact you system shouldn't be hooked on line when you editing anyways. In addition turn off Windows update. Problems could also be caused by Windows SP2 or not enough PSU. Check you 5v and 12v rails to see if it more than 5% below what is needed. ATI 9700 pro uses a lot of juice to run. You might also update your ATI drivers and Bios to the latest to correspond to your SP2. Unfortunately ATI doesn't take full advantage of the 3d OPENGL as well as Nvidia. But for your problems it's more of a compatibility issue with hardware vs software.

[Bryan Roberts]

Hey guys - just to complete this thread so those looming around the posts can hopefully learn from others' mistakes (when it comes to AVID, usually mine) - after posting on the official AVID forums and being told my system wasn't one of the approved AVID systems listed on the requirement side numerous times, a user came forward who had my same problem with an ATI card (Avid only certifies use of NVidia cards for the Xpress series, those Avid forum users seem to all stick strictly with AVID certified hardware - I guess all professionals). It turns out ATI put out new drivers about 20 days ago that specifically address stuttering or other video problems and updates for service pack 2. So, after installing these drivers my problem has been solved. The video and audio stay synced and playback is smooth even after the ill advised "gaming" test (play games or run other tasks for a while and then try and make Avid run correctly ;) )

As always, I appreciate everyones wonderful help and insight, it seems as though sometimes the solution is the most obvious (slaps forehead).

[Richard Alvarez]

Bryan

Great, glad you got it covered. Often performance issues are due to updates made or missed on various drivers. One of the reasons why AVID "certifies" a combination of hardware, is because the know for a fact that it will run smoothly on that configuration. Because, in the PC world, configurations are almost limitless, it would be impossible to "certify" all possible combinations. This does not mean that a given system "won't run" Avid, it just means that Avid hasn't put that particulary system through the hoops.

Most Software developers don't bother to "Certify" any systems, they just list a minimum spec, and leave it to you to work out any conflict between the latest video cards, mother boards, service packs, audio cards, drivers-drivers-DRIVERS!!!!!!

(It's why I'm not a computer guy... Some people enjoy tuning up their machines. Then again, I never understood the guys in school who LIKED re-building a carbeurator)