AVCHD Editing with CineForm

[Derek Weiss]

Originally Posted by David Newman

Maybe they will, but it will be very slow, slower than HDV.

Yes, kinda figured that. I'll keep trouble shooting the Cineform, as I prefer editing in that format. Eventually I will crack the case.

[Rick Baumhauer]

Is this possibly a DLL/.AX registration issue? I'm having the same problem as others - Elecard Player will play my M2TS files, but even when renamed, HDLink won't convert the video portion, though the audio does seem to play during conversion. Nero also has worked on the same machine in the past (trial license ran out, though, and I uninstalled it). If it's just a matter of getting the proper AX moved to System32 and registered, which one should I be looking for?

To add to the items up for discussion, this is on a Core Duo iMac, Windows XP Pro via Boot Camp. When I bought my SR1, I believed that Apple would include AVCHD support in the next version of Final Cut Express HD, but I'm now not so sure, since FCE HD 3.5 doesn't support any SD card or hard-disk cameras, only DV and HDV.

Given that the SR1 (and the Panasonic SD1) are undeniably "consumer" cameras, I want to believe that we're not going to be expected to spend $1k+ on an editing solution, and I'm hoping Apple's event at NAB tomorrow will bring good news. If it doesn't, does Cineform + demuxer (assuming I can get one working) help me in any way? I'd love to be able to work with Cineform AVIs in OS X, but it appears that the Mac software will require FCP, and I'm back to spending as much (or more) on an editing solution as I spent on the camera.

Thanks in advance for any pointers/illumination.

Rick

[David Newman]

Rick,

We don't require any particular editing tool, your could use MovieMaker or iMovie once everything is in place (although our converstion tools are PC only today.)

[Guy Bruner]

David,
I have the same graph in Graphedit on both my desktop and laptop (see pix). Cineform will accept the input file and finish rendering on my laptop, but not my desktop. I get an error on the desktop (see second pix). Any ideas?

[David Newman]

No idea. After NAB we might be maybe to send tools to help you debug the issue.

[Rick Baumhauer]

David - I have managed to get Elecard + HDLink working on both of my Macs (a first-generation Macbook 1.83GHz and 17-inch iMac Core Duo 1.83GHz). Definitely the best option I've found so far for getting AVCHD files into a useable format. Still need to experiment on the Mac side - I'm working on converting to 720p/24fps for possible use with AppleTV.

If I were to buy ConnectHD this month, would I be able to switch to the Mac version of NEO HDV when it becomes available? The only issue, of course, is finding an OS X AVCHD demuxer, of which there are currently none that I'm aware of, so it may make sense to stick with the Windows version for the foreseeable future, regardless, but I figured I'd at least ask.

For anybody having problems with the Elecard/Cineform setup, here's what I had to do:

1) if you've used Graphedit to try to figure out why things aren't working, you may have to unregister mpeg2parser.ax; for some reason, many of my files "dead-ended" with this codec (included with graphedit)

2) it appears that the Elecard AVC plugin doesn't actually get registered on install; I had to manually register it by copying the file (mcavcvd.ax) to windows/system32, then typing regsvr32.exe mcavcvd.ax from that folder

After I did this on both of my machines, they both started working fine.

Rick

[Rick Baumhauer]

Spoke too soon - the HDLink-created files crash Quicktime on OS X. I've installed the Mac Beta codecs, and it looks fine until you hit "Play", then the picture seems to divide into quarters, with the same picture in each, and then crashes.

These files play fine in Windows Media Player.

Looking over the specs, it appears that AVCHD support is not included in FCP 6 - DVCPRO HD and XDCAM HD are both mentioned specifically, but AVCHD is conspicuous by its absence. Are we ever going to be able to edit this format? Do Sony or Adobe have anything major to announce at NAB? I could grab the Adobe upgrade package that includes Premiere Pro/After Effects/etc, rather than just Photoshop CS3 Enhanced, but I will need to make that decision pretty soon.

I love my camera, but I think everybody believed there would be a workable editing solution available, or at least announced, by now. Not to mention that just about every option I've tried for converting to an editable format for the Mac has eventually found me plowing, head-first, into another brick wall.

I realize that the Cineform codecs are still beta, and I have confidence that they will eventually give me some options I don't currently have, but I really just want SOMETHING to work right now. I'd bite the bullet on Nero if the conversion to MPEG2 didn't take so long - I'd much rather go the Elecard/Cineform route for the speed of conversion, but I still don't even know how editing will work, since the files crash when I play them.

Rick

[David Newman]

We already have a fix for that issue. In the meantime convert with the smart render feature on, this should fix the issue. We have yet determine how PC to Mac upgrades will be done, but we have been good at enabling upgrades in the past.

[Rick Baumhauer]

David - thanks for the quick reply, especially during such a hectic time for you! I will try the Smart Render option.

Also, Adobe has released beta versions of both Premiere Pro CS3 and After Effects CS3 tonight, so I will be exploring those options as well.

Thanks again!

Rick

[Rick Baumhauer]

Looks like Elecard have raised (doubled!) the price on the AVC Plugin, so the Elecard portion of this workflow is now $70 instead of $50.

Do you think they saw this thread?

[Derek Weiss]

Originally Posted by Rick Baumhauer

Looks like Elecard have raised (doubled!) the price on the AVC Plugin, so the Elecard portion of this workflow is now $70 instead of $50.

Do you think they saw this thread?

I can't get my system to work, so I guess it's back to Nero and long decoding times.

[Derek Weiss]

One more question..............

When you drag your avchd file into GraphEdit, does it give you the "Some of the streams in this movie are in an unsupported format"?

Still trying to trouble shoot this.

[Rick Baumhauer]

Derek - yes, I did get that error in the process of trying to get things working. I ended up manually unregistering one of the files that comes with GraphEdit, mpeg2parser.ax, as it came up as a codec that seems to cause problems for some people. I was pointed toward that file when some of my AVCHD files wouldn't play, and dragging them onto GraphEdit produced only a two-entry graph, dead-ending at something it was calling the "Ligos MPEG Decoder", or something like that. Googling Ligos turned up mpeg2parser as one of their codecs.

So, I unregistered that file, and I believe I got the "unsupported format" error after that. At that point, I copied the mcavcvd.ax file that is installed by the Elecard AVC plugin (you can find it in Program Files\Common Files\Elecard) into windows\system32, and registered it by hand with regsvr32. At that point, everything started working, and GraphEdit showed the Main Concept/Elecard decoder for all of my AVCHD files.

Rick

[Derek Weiss]

Ok, now the decoder appears in graphedit. I'll run it and let you know how it goes.

thanks.

[Derek Weiss]

So now I have the same graphedit screen as David posted, and I no longer get the "unsupported format" when dragging the avchd into Graphedit. But Cineform still doesn't output the file?

Graphedit:

02.m2ts-Elecard Mpeg Demultiplexer-MainConcept AVC/H.264 Decoder-Video Renderer

And then the audio chain.