redundant step making dvd from AVCHD ? at DVinfo.net

Reko Tomo · April 27th, 2013, 01:46 AM

First, please do apologize my English as English is not my main language.

I'm used to have my miniDV camcorder, capture to AVI-DV - do heavy editing (3 to 4 layers) in Premiere CS3 then export to DVD format file without problem.

It's been almost 2 weeks now since I have my new consumer HD camcorder and that whole 2 weeks searching the internet to find the best step to make a DVD in Premiere CS3 from AVCHD footage.

Today finally I get a conclusion. Am I right to think that it is useless to shoot in HD with my camcorder since to make DVD file takes more step and takes more time because of the AVCHD (mts) file ?

What I mean in "more time" is that I need to first convert the mts file to AVI-DV which takes longer times (around 2.5 : 1) compare miniDV capture (1:1).

And "more step" is the result of AVI-DV although play smoothly in CS3 timeline - but it turn out that I need to set "field options" to "always deinterlace" to hundreds of clips when I put them into Premiere timeline. If I don't do this, the playback of DVD file will be jerky/choppy when there is a camera panning in my shot.

While "useless" is that there is almost no different quality whether it's 720x576 AVI-DV source footage or 1920x1080 .mts file of the resulting DVD-video file.

I post this to hope that someone will not agree of my conclusion. That my conclusion is wrong because I didn't do in a correct way.

I would be glad and thankful if there is someone can explain me on how to make my step easier and at least take the same amount of time needed for the preparation footage just like when I capture my miniDV to AVI-DV.

Btw, making a blue-ray disc is not an option for me :).

Any kind of respond would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advanced.

regards.

My Rig is outdated and low end (very basic).
CPU : Intel E4400
MB : Biostar G41-M7
Memory : 2 x 1 gig
Hardisk : 2 x 160 gig
OS : Win XP-Pro SP2

Bruce Watson · April 28th, 2013, 09:05 AM

Typically, edit in the native capture format, and export to the format you need for presentation. So in your case capture and edit in HD AVCHD,and export to MPEG2-DVD. Doing this lets you have the option of uploading your HD to the web, or even burning physical blu-ray discs should you ever have that need.

SD (as in DVD) is nearly obsolete. It's only used for DVDs anymore. So to reiterate, you would only capture in SD if you're sure your only distribution will ever be on physical DVDs. If you are ever going to upload your footage to the web, capture and edit at the highest resolution you can.

Noa Put · April 28th, 2013, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reko Tomo

It's been almost 2 weeks now since I have my new consumer HD camcorder and that whole 2 weeks searching the internet to find the best step to make a DVD in Premiere CS3 from AVCHD footage.

Correct me if I am wrong but Premiere cs3 doesn't support avchd.

Reko Tomo · April 30th, 2013, 12:03 AM

Sorry for the delay,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Watson

Typically, edit in the native capture format, and export to the format you need for presentation. So in your case capture and edit in HD AVCHD

I've seen from the internet there are some programs that can do realtime AVCHD (.mts) file. But it seems my rig won't be powerful enough to do that ... letalone do multiple composite layers on that programs :).

Anyway, maybe you can tell me any "light" software to edit AVCHD, please ?

My camcorder come with a program to cut/join/select a portion of AVCHD ... it's Everio Media Browser4. But since I'm used to do "heavy" edit (sometimes 1 clip video cut to several clips) in CS3 - I found that I'm not into this Everio software.

Quote:

Doing this lets you have the option of uploading your HD to the web, or even burning physical blu-ray discs should you ever have that need.

Yes I understand this... thank you for your advice.

Quote:

So to reiterate, you would only capture in SD if you're sure your only distribution will ever be on physical DVDs.

Actually I did capture in SD ... the steps and times needed which made me upset which I'm hoping that I took a wrong steps then someone can enlightened me for a better steps :).

Thank you Bruce for your input. Really appreciate it.

regards.

Reko Tomo · April 30th, 2013, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

Correct me if I am wrong but Premiere cs3 doesn't support avchd.

Yes, you're right .. CS3 doesn't support avchd --- that's why I'm looking for a better steps on how to do the editing in CS3 besides converting the .mts file to AVI-DV as I did :).

regards.

Kevin Duffey · April 30th, 2013, 12:26 PM

Maybe slightly off topic, but I am still confused as to why (or how) editing in AVCHD is better than transcoding to an intermediate format like DNxHD or ProRes is better for all but the simplest editing jobs? I am not a pro, so I can't speak from experience. I realize that transcoding to a better format doesn't make the original video better. It also adds to file size and processing time. However, where I see it beneficial and thus why I think it's better, is in the case of adding more compression to renders as you edit.

As an example, I shoot video with my DSLR, which is h264. I take lots of clips, and external audio. I then bring them into the timeline, sync the audio and want to resave the clips for later use, possibly by another person to edit. The only way I can figure out how to do this without re-rendering them and thus adding more compression, degrading it more, is to save the project itself which just maintains the refs to the videos, in/out, etc. I can't easily give that to another editor or re-use the clips in other ways without degrading the video more each time I do any editing to it. Best case I can re-render the clip just once, all edited up. Then re-use that later. The result is that my source gets rendered/compressed at least once more if not 2x more. Now, again, I am no pro so I don't know how much degradation is added by doing this, but I prefer to avoid that at all. I plan to buy a BM Pocket camera soon as I can get my hands on one and shot ProRes or preferrably their CinemaDNG RAW format when it's capable.

I thin one issue is pretty much gone these days with regards to avchd/h264.. that is most entry level computers of today can handle the processing needs to deal with it. A few years back, it was a little different..if you didn't have a beefy enough machine your editing was slow and cumbersome. So perhaps today there is less reason to transcode to a more editor friendly intermediate format. But I also think if I were to get clips, stock footage, etc from other cameras, having my footage in an intermediate format may mix better when editing with other clips.

Just my .02.

Reko Tomo · April 30th, 2013, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Duffey

Maybe slightly off topic, but I am still confused as to why (or how) editing in AVCHD is better than transcoding to an intermediate format like DNxHD or ProRes is better for all but the simplest editing jobs?

I don't know either ... :). Hope someone can enlighten us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Duffey

I realize that transcoding to a better format doesn't make the original video better. It also adds to file size and processing time.

That's why I'm a bit upset because more processing time. But as you see my rig and software won't handle the job to directly edit AVCHD files, so I'm urged to convert it first the file to "native" AVI-DV which CS3 happily accept for smooth editing. And yes, the file is larger than .mts file as mts is highly compressed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Duffey

The only way I can figure out how to do this without re-rendering them and thus adding more compression, degrading it more, is to save the project itself which just maintains the refs to the videos, in/out, etc.

For me, IMHO rendering is the final step. As long as I still do the editing such as put an addition effect files created from another program (for example After Effects) then I render these files as high quality as possible - for example using HuffYuv codec, or even sometimes uncompressed at all - but sometimes just to AVI-DV file (depends), then import those files to CS3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Duffey

I can't easily give that to another editor or re-use the clips in other ways without degrading the video more each time I do any editing to it. I am no pro so I don't know how much degradation is added by doing this, but I prefer to avoid that at all

Yes... me neither Pro and I'll do the same like you :).

Quote:

I thin one issue is pretty much gone these days with regards to avchd/h264.. that is most entry level computers of today can handle the processing needs to deal with it.

No, I don't think so. I'm quite sure my "entry level" computer won't be able to handle AVCHD editing (layers, effect, 3d transition, chopping clips, audio adjustment, etc) even if I have the program to edit AVCHD. I think it will be too heavy for my rig.

Thank you for your respond, Kevin.

regards.

Reko Tomo · April 30th, 2013, 01:12 PM

I just found out another step that better than convert to AVI-DV.

I converted the .mts to .mov H264/AVC. It's smaller size then AVI ... smooth editing in CS3 timeline and I don't need to change for each clips in the "Field options" to always-deinterlace.

Still, hoping if someone can advice me if there is a better steps :).

regards.

Kevin Duffey · May 1st, 2013, 03:44 PM

Interesting.

I still question though the right process to ensure saving clips individually. If I shoot say 20 clips. I bring them into to PPRo, and drag one to the timeline. I drag a separate audio file track, sync the audio, shorten the clip a bit.. now it's just right. Ready to be used to assemble into a final movie. I want to give this ready to go clip (along with many other ready to go clips) to a different person on the team.. another editor I guess, that will put all the clips together in some order to make the final movie. That person, when done would then render the final output. But how do I give him my edited clip from my timeline without using the export -> Media option which will then add compression?

Let me say this another way. I am working on a chapter of a book. I edit the file, remove some text here, clean up the spelling, etc. I then simply just SAVE the file. It's saved as a txt file. I didn't have to export it to a zipped file. Anyone can open it up and continue to work on it without any compression added. Sorry it may not be the best example. But what I am trying to figure out is what format can I then just SAVE the edited clips to, and how do I do that? In PPRo I assume I have to ALWAYS use the export -> Media option. So if I have a source file that is DNxHD 220. I sync/edit it. I then want to SAVE the same DNxHD again (to a new file of course) so that there is no visual or audio loss due to any compression.

That is the workflow I am not knowing how to do yet.

Reko Tomo · May 1st, 2013, 11:42 PM

Hi Kevin,

Based on my lack of experiences, for me ... I will just include all original footage I've edited on PPro timeline - which means I just give the whole folder of my Ppro project to someone else for further editing :).

btw, have you tried Project Trimmer in Ppro ? I know this option is good for AVI-DV source footage ... but I don't know for DNxHD format.

regards.

April 27th, 2013, 01:46 AM	#1
Reko Tomo New Boot Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Denpasar, Indonesia Posts: 6	redundant step making dvd from AVCHD ? First, please do apologize my English as English is not my main language. I'm used to have my miniDV camcorder, capture to AVI-DV - do heavy editing (3 to 4 layers) in Premiere CS3 then export to DVD format file without problem. It's been almost 2 weeks now since I have my new consumer HD camcorder and that whole 2 weeks searching the internet to find the best step to make a DVD in Premiere CS3 from AVCHD footage. Today finally I get a conclusion. Am I right to think that it is useless to shoot in HD with my camcorder since to make DVD file takes more step and takes more time because of the AVCHD (mts) file ? What I mean in "more time" is that I need to first convert the mts file to AVI-DV which takes longer times (around 2.5 : 1) compare miniDV capture (1:1). And "more step" is the result of AVI-DV although play smoothly in CS3 timeline - but it turn out that I need to set "field options" to "always deinterlace" to hundreds of clips when I put them into Premiere timeline. If I don't do this, the playback of DVD file will be jerky/choppy when there is a camera panning in my shot. While "useless" is that there is almost no different quality whether it's 720x576 AVI-DV source footage or 1920x1080 .mts file of the resulting DVD-video file. I post this to hope that someone will not agree of my conclusion. That my conclusion is wrong because I didn't do in a correct way. I would be glad and thankful if there is someone can explain me on how to make my step easier and at least take the same amount of time needed for the preparation footage just like when I capture my miniDV to AVI-DV. Btw, making a blue-ray disc is not an option for me :). Any kind of respond would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advanced. regards. My Rig is outdated and low end (very basic). CPU : Intel E4400 MB : Biostar G41-M7 Memory : 2 x 1 gig Hardisk : 2 x 160 gig OS : Win XP-Pro SP2

April 28th, 2013, 09:05 AM	#2
Bruce Watson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Raleigh, NC, USA Posts: 710	Re: redundant step making dvd from AVCHD ? Typically, edit in the native capture format, and export to the format you need for presentation. So in your case capture and edit in HD AVCHD,and export to MPEG2-DVD. Doing this lets you have the option of uploading your HD to the web, or even burning physical blu-ray discs should you ever have that need. SD (as in DVD) is nearly obsolete. It's only used for DVDs anymore. So to reiterate, you would only capture in SD if you're sure your only distribution will ever be on physical DVDs. If you are ever going to upload your footage to the web, capture and edit at the highest resolution you can.

April 30th, 2013, 12:26 PM	#6
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	Re: redundant step making dvd from AVCHD ? Maybe slightly off topic, but I am still confused as to why (or how) editing in AVCHD is better than transcoding to an intermediate format like DNxHD or ProRes is better for all but the simplest editing jobs? I am not a pro, so I can't speak from experience. I realize that transcoding to a better format doesn't make the original video better. It also adds to file size and processing time. However, where I see it beneficial and thus why I think it's better, is in the case of adding more compression to renders as you edit. As an example, I shoot video with my DSLR, which is h264. I take lots of clips, and external audio. I then bring them into the timeline, sync the audio and want to resave the clips for later use, possibly by another person to edit. The only way I can figure out how to do this without re-rendering them and thus adding more compression, degrading it more, is to save the project itself which just maintains the refs to the videos, in/out, etc. I can't easily give that to another editor or re-use the clips in other ways without degrading the video more each time I do any editing to it. Best case I can re-render the clip just once, all edited up. Then re-use that later. The result is that my source gets rendered/compressed at least once more if not 2x more. Now, again, I am no pro so I don't know how much degradation is added by doing this, but I prefer to avoid that at all. I plan to buy a BM Pocket camera soon as I can get my hands on one and shot ProRes or preferrably their CinemaDNG RAW format when it's capable. I thin one issue is pretty much gone these days with regards to avchd/h264.. that is most entry level computers of today can handle the processing needs to deal with it. A few years back, it was a little different..if you didn't have a beefy enough machine your editing was slow and cumbersome. So perhaps today there is less reason to transcode to a more editor friendly intermediate format. But I also think if I were to get clips, stock footage, etc from other cameras, having my footage in an intermediate format may mix better when editing with other clips. Just my .02.

April 30th, 2013, 01:12 PM	#8
Reko Tomo New Boot Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Denpasar, Indonesia Posts: 6	Re: redundant step making dvd from AVCHD ? I just found out another step that better than convert to AVI-DV. I converted the .mts to .mov H264/AVC. It's smaller size then AVI ... smooth editing in CS3 timeline and I don't need to change for each clips in the "Field options" to always-deinterlace. Still, hoping if someone can advice me if there is a better steps :). regards.

May 1st, 2013, 03:44 PM	#9
Kevin Duffey Major Player Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: California Posts: 206	Re: redundant step making dvd from AVCHD ? Interesting. I still question though the right process to ensure saving clips individually. If I shoot say 20 clips. I bring them into to PPRo, and drag one to the timeline. I drag a separate audio file track, sync the audio, shorten the clip a bit.. now it's just right. Ready to be used to assemble into a final movie. I want to give this ready to go clip (along with many other ready to go clips) to a different person on the team.. another editor I guess, that will put all the clips together in some order to make the final movie. That person, when done would then render the final output. But how do I give him my edited clip from my timeline without using the export -> Media option which will then add compression? Let me say this another way. I am working on a chapter of a book. I edit the file, remove some text here, clean up the spelling, etc. I then simply just SAVE the file. It's saved as a txt file. I didn't have to export it to a zipped file. Anyone can open it up and continue to work on it without any compression added. Sorry it may not be the best example. But what I am trying to figure out is what format can I then just SAVE the edited clips to, and how do I do that? In PPRo I assume I have to ALWAYS use the export -> Media option. So if I have a source file that is DNxHD 220. I sync/edit it. I then want to SAVE the same DNxHD again (to a new file of course) so that there is no visual or audio loss due to any compression. That is the workflow I am not knowing how to do yet.

May 1st, 2013, 11:42 PM	#10
Reko Tomo New Boot Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Denpasar, Indonesia Posts: 6	Re: redundant step making dvd from AVCHD ? Hi Kevin, Based on my lack of experiences, for me ... I will just include all original footage I've edited on PPro timeline - which means I just give the whole folder of my Ppro project to someone else for further editing :). btw, have you tried Project Trimmer in Ppro ? I know this option is good for AVI-DV source footage ... but I don't know for DNxHD format. regards.