How to handle AVCHD 720 60p & 1080 30p in post at DVinfo.net

Tim Akin · August 8th, 2011, 05:29 PM

Not sure if this has been asked before or not....search didn't find anything.

I film weddings and have been thinking about getting a Panasonic GH2 to replace an HV30 used in the back of the church as a 3rd cam. The other two cam's are Sony FX1000's that I have always recorded in HDV 1080 30p. I believe the GH2 will be AVCHD 720 60p.

What will be the best workflow, to handle these two formats, in the same Vegas project?

Thanks,
Tim

Robert Young · August 9th, 2011, 01:00 AM

I have no experience with Vegas, but my workflow of choice with mixed formats has been to convert everything to the Cineform digital intermediate codec. (Cineform Neo- Cineform )
Your Sonys are recording HDV 1440x1080 1.33par, the GH2 will record 1920x1080 AVCHD 1.0 (square) par.
The Cineform software/plug-in will convert all of this source footage into 1920x1080, 10 bit, 4:2:2, 100mbs .avi files which are easily edited and exported to whatever delivery formats are needed.
A newer approach: I am currently using Premiere Pro CS5.5 which will actually allow me to put mixed formats on the same timeline. It will edit and preview in realtime if the system is powerful enough.
You should check & see what the latest version of Vegas will do in this regard.

Michael Johnston · August 10th, 2011, 10:54 AM

Some quick advice. AVCHD is hard on CPU's and can be difficult to edit with. MAKE SURE your project settings are set the same as your AVCHD footage, meaning same frame rate, bitrate, resolution, etc. If you start editing AVCHD in a project with HDV settings, it will likely lock up and crash your NLE. This is assuming you are editing with the raw AVCHD files natively and not transcoding before editing. I learned this lesson the hard way.

I'd also suggest purchasing ClipWrap ($49.95) and wrapping the AVCHD files as a QuickTime .mov files. Makes editing much easier.

Tim Akin · August 10th, 2011, 11:35 AM

Thanks Michael, I'm still on a quad 4 so it may not handle it well anyway.

Looks like the biggest problem with mixing these two formats is like Robert says, the pixel aspect.

I have posted a question in the Vegas forum that addresses this.

Michael Johnston · August 10th, 2011, 07:50 PM

Just FYI, ClipWrap is a Mac only software. I did not know that until AFTER I paid and went to install it. Good news is they were quick to respond to my email and are refunding my money.

Robert M Wright · August 19th, 2011, 02:52 PM

Edius Neo 2.5 (or 3) is a great tool to have on a PC. It can handle AVCHD natively, quite nicely on even a low end quad-core CPU, is very stable and generally quite capable for basic editing purposes. A big bonus with Neo, is the Canopus HQ codec, a high quality intermediate codec that works well with other apps also, performing essentially as well as Cineform's codec for most purposes (sometimes perhaps slightly better, in my opinion).

If you want to mix different frame-size footage (on a PC), converting to Canopus HQ and then resizing with VirtualDub, using the Lanczos resizing algorithm, is a very good way to get a high quality conversion. Resizing with almost any NLE generally produces less than stellar results (and can often downright suck).

Robert Young · August 20th, 2011, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright

If you want to mix different frame-size footage (on a PC), converting to Canopus HQ and then resizing with VirtualDub, using the Lanczos resizing algorithm, is a very good way to get a high quality conversion.

One nice thing about the Cineform software- it does use the Lanczos algorithm and will resize all of the files that require it, on the fly, during the initial conversion.
You simply set the desired output frame size, select all the folders containing video files to be converted, click "start" & the entire process is automated.

Jay West · August 29th, 2011, 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Akin

Not sure if this has been asked before or not....search didn't find anything.

I film weddings and have been thinking about getting a Panasonic GH2 to replace an HV30 used in the back of the church as a 3rd cam. The other two cam's are Sony FX1000's that I have always recorded in HDV 1080 30p. I believe the GH2 will be AVCHD 720 60p.

What will be the best workflow, to handle these two formats, in the same Vegas project?

Thanks,
Tim

I suggest you try re-posting this as a workflow question in the Vegas forum here. I only dabble occasionally in Vegas, but I think I recall reading that you would want to work with a 720/30p project. Again, however, check with the Vegas forum.

Otherwise, I'm with Robert on using Cineform. It may take a bit of time and eats up a lot of hard drive space (AVCHD files decompressed to HD AVI will be roughly 6 times larger than the origianls), but the editing workload is significantly lighter. Also, if you buy Cineform's Neo (as opposed to NeoScene), you get the First Light application. First Light allows you to do color matching (which can be required when combining Sony FX1000 footage with GH2 footage). The color matching is done in meta-data so it is a very light load on the computer as opposed to what you get when using most applications' own color correction filters.

Again, though, YMMV with Vegas and Cineform. I know they are supposed to be compatible but I do not know details. This is another question you could ask on the Vegas forum.

August 8th, 2011, 05:29 PM	#1
Tim Akin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 414	How to handle AVCHD 720 60p & 1080 30p in post Not sure if this has been asked before or not....search didn't find anything. I film weddings and have been thinking about getting a Panasonic GH2 to replace an HV30 used in the back of the church as a 3rd cam. The other two cam's are Sony FX1000's that I have always recorded in HDV 1080 30p. I believe the GH2 will be AVCHD 720 60p. What will be the best workflow, to handle these two formats, in the same Vegas project? Thanks, Tim __________________ Tim

August 9th, 2011, 01:00 AM	#2
Robert Young Trustee Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Coronado Island Posts: 1,472	Re: How to handle AVCHD 720 60p & 1080 30p in post I have no experience with Vegas, but my workflow of choice with mixed formats has been to convert everything to the Cineform digital intermediate codec. (Cineform Neo- Cineform ) Your Sonys are recording HDV 1440x1080 1.33par, the GH2 will record 1920x1080 AVCHD 1.0 (square) par. The Cineform software/plug-in will convert all of this source footage into 1920x1080, 10 bit, 4:2:2, 100mbs .avi files which are easily edited and exported to whatever delivery formats are needed. A newer approach: I am currently using Premiere Pro CS5.5 which will actually allow me to put mixed formats on the same timeline. It will edit and preview in realtime if the system is powerful enough. You should check & see what the latest version of Vegas will do in this regard. __________________ Bob

August 10th, 2011, 10:54 AM	#3
Michael Johnston Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 130	Re: How to handle AVCHD 720 60p & 1080 30p in post Some quick advice. AVCHD is hard on CPU's and can be difficult to edit with. MAKE SURE your project settings are set the same as your AVCHD footage, meaning same frame rate, bitrate, resolution, etc. If you start editing AVCHD in a project with HDV settings, it will likely lock up and crash your NLE. This is assuming you are editing with the raw AVCHD files natively and not transcoding before editing. I learned this lesson the hard way. I'd also suggest purchasing ClipWrap ($49.95) and wrapping the AVCHD files as a QuickTime .mov files. Makes editing much easier.

August 10th, 2011, 11:35 AM	#4
Tim Akin Major Player Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Newbern, TN Posts: 414	Re: How to handle AVCHD 720 60p & 1080 30p in post Thanks Michael, I'm still on a quad 4 so it may not handle it well anyway. Looks like the biggest problem with mixing these two formats is like Robert says, the pixel aspect. I have posted a question in the Vegas forum that addresses this. __________________ Tim

August 10th, 2011, 07:50 PM	#5
Michael Johnston Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 130	Re: How to handle AVCHD 720 60p & 1080 30p in post Just FYI, ClipWrap is a Mac only software. I did not know that until AFTER I paid and went to install it. Good news is they were quick to respond to my email and are refunding my money.

August 19th, 2011, 02:52 PM	#6
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	Re: How to handle AVCHD 720 60p & 1080 30p in post Edius Neo 2.5 (or 3) is a great tool to have on a PC. It can handle AVCHD natively, quite nicely on even a low end quad-core CPU, is very stable and generally quite capable for basic editing purposes. A big bonus with Neo, is the Canopus HQ codec, a high quality intermediate codec that works well with other apps also, performing essentially as well as Cineform's codec for most purposes (sometimes perhaps slightly better, in my opinion). If you want to mix different frame-size footage (on a PC), converting to Canopus HQ and then resizing with VirtualDub, using the Lanczos resizing algorithm, is a very good way to get a high quality conversion. Resizing with almost any NLE generally produces less than stellar results (and can often downright suck).