audio synch problem with MRC1 on capture to CS5 at DVinfo.net

Chris Duczynski · March 4th, 2011, 05:06 AM

Has anyone had an audio synch problem capturing from the MRC1 unit straight to CS5.
The synch gets worse the longer the clip goes.
Any tips??

Rob Morse · March 4th, 2011, 12:19 PM

You should be using the Sony utility unit

Chris Duczynski · March 4th, 2011, 06:27 PM

Hi Rob, thats what I'm using.
On playback in PPro the audio starts losing synch the further into the clip I get.
Should I be converting the raw AVCHD files into something else and then editing
thanks

Jay West · March 5th, 2011, 01:46 AM

I do not yet understand your description of the problem.

When you say "capturing straight to CS5," it sounds like you have your MRC hooked to the computer and are trying to edit off the CF card (i.e., you imported directly from the CF card into a media bin in PPro.) Is that what you meant? Or, did you mean you copied the file to you hard drive and then imported the file directly into PPro without creating any intermediate files?

If you are doing the former --- trying to edit directly from the CF card --- that is likely the source of your problem. While one can playback video from the CF card, I' do not believe that there is sufficient throughput from the card/MRC to edit with. Problems with playback and audio issues can be a sign of insufficient throughput. If you have not used the RU_Util.exe program to copy the file to your hard drive (and then import from the hard drive), I suggest you try that. See if it fixes the problem.

If saying "directly" meant you did use the RU program and are using the file without running it through an intermediate, then some other questions come to mind to help narrow things.

What happens with playback in the camera? Do you still see a loss of audio synch then? If so, you've narrowed the issue to being with the MRC and your camera.

If you put the footage on a timeline and click "render entire work area," is audio synch maintained then? Ifso, you may have an underpowered computer or a hardware glicth that is really slowing your computer down. (Have you check lately to see what other processes you are running?)

Can Windows Media Player shows the file without loss of audio synch? If so, you've at least identified this as as CS5 issue and probably ruled out a glitch or corruption in the file copy on your hard drive.

You mention "raw" AVCHD files. Do mean you had your MRC set to "Raw DV" (under "DV File Type" on the "settings" submenu)? If so, try switching to AVI and making a test recording to see if that exhibits the same loss of synch when brought to the hard drive and then into CS5.

Your mention of AVCHD puzzles me. Do you think you have AVCHD files because Windows lists the file-type as AVCHD? The MRC records whatever comes in through the firewire port but I don't know of any AVCHD cameras that have a firewire port to which one could connect an MRC . You can't record AVCHD to an MRC. You do know that Windows has a bug where HDV gets listed as being file type "AVCHD?"

This leads me to ask if you are seeing the loss of synch when you bring the file into an AVCHD timeline? HDV is an mpeg2 transport stream while AVCHD is and mpeg 4 transport stream. If you have been using an AVCHD preset for your timeline in PPro when the loss of synch has been occurring, try a pre-set for an HDV timeline. Also, is the loss of synch also happening when you play it in the source monitor, as well as from the timeline?

Have you been able to play HDV files previously and are just seeing the problem with this particular file? Might try a recapture.

If none of the foregoing is the problem, you may have some incompatability or system glitch. An "intermediate," such as Cineform NeoHD or NeoScene might fix the problem. Actually, I first started using Cineform under PPro CS3 because I often had the kind of audio-synch trouble (the same one you described) when I captured HDV from tape into PPro. Capturing the file with HD Link (or whatever Cineform called it back then) and then doing the conversion to a Cineform AVI seemed to fix the problem. You can download a fully functional 30-day version from the Cineform Website, run a conversion and see if you still lose synch between the audio and video.

Other factors could be at play here. What camera did you shoot the video with and what format did you use? Did you maybe shoot 24F with a Canon XHA1? What are the specs of the computer you editing with? An older system (say a Core 2 Duo) or an underpowered laptop can exhibit audio synch problems. .

A lot to think about and maybe most of it is off base, but I hope it helps.

Chris Duczynski · March 5th, 2011, 02:18 AM

Hey Jay - thanks for the comprehensive answer I think you got it in the first paragraph about throughput.
Yes, I'm capturing/editing straight from MRC to CS5 PPro into a AVCHD setup project. The ru. util does not recognise any of it.
However.......off the CF card via a reader it's all go and works perfectly and lists them as m2t format. Then import into CS5 PPro and off we go!!
I'm using I7 pro with 12gb RAM so the setup has plenty of grunt. Shot on a Sony Z5 in HDV. I had the MRC output setup for HDV and .avi as well.
I think I just approached it all the wrong way from the start. Thanks for all the other possibilities which I'm sure others will find useful as well.
Cheers mate.

PS why would the Sony Recording utility have the import button greyed out when the MRC is attached but when I slot in the CF card all the files are listed and import becomes available?

Jay West · March 5th, 2011, 02:40 AM

Re your PS

Sometimes f##@&*! Win 7 just plain refuses to properly recognize the MRC. The MRC will show up in "Devices and Printers" but you can't find it to save your life in Win Explorer/My Computer. Had an instance of that last night and it took two reboots before the MRC showed up in RU_Util for transmitting the files. Every so often, it does the same thing to one of the USB drives that I use for parking older projects and media archives.

Chris Duczynski · March 5th, 2011, 02:56 AM

Exactly!! The MRC is in devices and printers but nothing else. Windows reconises $15 CF card reader but not a $800 Sony product.
Good to know thanks Jay

Rob Morse · March 5th, 2011, 10:36 AM

The card reader is a better option anyway. I've heard of people messing up their units plugging them into the computer. I'm not sure how they did it but for me the card reader option is faster.

Jay West · March 5th, 2011, 11:38 AM

A good card reader can be much faster and is recommended.

The way people tend to "mess up" their units is be trying to use the computer to format or perform file operations other than copying the files (e.g., using My Computer to move or delete files from the card), Only do those things in the MRC when it is not connected to the computer.

Windows not recognizing the device is either a Windows or a Sony thing, or a maybe combination of them both. Like I said, every couple of months I get some odd USB issue. For a while, Win 7 listed my USB drives as hard drives in Win Explorer but the Device Manager said they were CD drives and only allowed transfers at 5 mb/sec. It took six or seven uninstalls and re-installs of the devices before Win 7 treated them properly again.

By the way, shouldn't this thread be moved to the MRC forum? It really does not have anything to do with AVCHD.

March 4th, 2011, 05:06 AM	#1
Chris Duczynski Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: sydney Posts: 304	audio synch problem with MRC1 on capture to CS5 Has anyone had an audio synch problem capturing from the MRC1 unit straight to CS5. The synch gets worse the longer the clip goes. Any tips??

March 4th, 2011, 12:19 PM	#2
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	Re: audio synch problem with MRC1 on capture to CS5 You should be using the Sony utility unit

March 4th, 2011, 06:27 PM	#3
Chris Duczynski Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: sydney Posts: 304	Re: audio synch problem with MRC1 on capture to CS5 Hi Rob, thats what I'm using. On playback in PPro the audio starts losing synch the further into the clip I get. Should I be converting the raw AVCHD files into something else and then editing thanks

March 5th, 2011, 02:18 AM	#5
Chris Duczynski Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: sydney Posts: 304	Re: audio synch problem with MRC1 on capture to CS5 Hey Jay - thanks for the comprehensive answer I think you got it in the first paragraph about throughput. Yes, I'm capturing/editing straight from MRC to CS5 PPro into a AVCHD setup project. The ru. util does not recognise any of it. However.......off the CF card via a reader it's all go and works perfectly and lists them as m2t format. Then import into CS5 PPro and off we go!! I'm using I7 pro with 12gb RAM so the setup has plenty of grunt. Shot on a Sony Z5 in HDV. I had the MRC output setup for HDV and .avi as well. I think I just approached it all the wrong way from the start. Thanks for all the other possibilities which I'm sure others will find useful as well. Cheers mate. PS why would the Sony Recording utility have the import button greyed out when the MRC is attached but when I slot in the CF card all the files are listed and import becomes available? Last edited by Chris Duczynski; March 5th, 2011 at 02:22 AM. Reason: added PS

March 5th, 2011, 02:40 AM	#6
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	Re: audio synch problem with MRC1 on capture to CS5 Re your PS Sometimes f##@&*! Win 7 just plain refuses to properly recognize the MRC. The MRC will show up in "Devices and Printers" but you can't find it to save your life in Win Explorer/My Computer. Had an instance of that last night and it took two reboots before the MRC showed up in RU_Util for transmitting the files. Every so often, it does the same thing to one of the USB drives that I use for parking older projects and media archives.

March 5th, 2011, 01:46 AM	#4
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	I do not yet understand your description of the problem. When you say "capturing straight to CS5," it sounds like you have your MRC hooked to the computer and are trying to edit off the CF card (i.e., you imported directly from the CF card into a media bin in PPro.) Is that what you meant? Or, did you mean you copied the file to you hard drive and then imported the file directly into PPro without creating any intermediate files? If you are doing the former --- trying to edit directly from the CF card --- that is likely the source of your problem. While one can playback video from the CF card, I' do not believe that there is sufficient throughput from the card/MRC to edit with. Problems with playback and audio issues can be a sign of insufficient throughput. If you have not used the RU_Util.exe program to copy the file to your hard drive (and then import from the hard drive), I suggest you try that. See if it fixes the problem. If saying "directly" meant you did use the RU program and are using the file without running it through an intermediate, then some other questions come to mind to help narrow things. What happens with playback in the camera? Do you still see a loss of audio synch then? If so, you've narrowed the issue to being with the MRC and your camera. If you put the footage on a timeline and click "render entire work area," is audio synch maintained then? Ifso, you may have an underpowered computer or a hardware glicth that is really slowing your computer down. (Have you check lately to see what other processes you are running?) Can Windows Media Player shows the file without loss of audio synch? If so, you've at least identified this as as CS5 issue and probably ruled out a glitch or corruption in the file copy on your hard drive. You mention "raw" AVCHD files. Do mean you had your MRC set to "Raw DV" (under "DV File Type" on the "settings" submenu)? If so, try switching to AVI and making a test recording to see if that exhibits the same loss of synch when brought to the hard drive and then into CS5. Your mention of AVCHD puzzles me. Do you think you have AVCHD files because Windows lists the file-type as AVCHD? The MRC records whatever comes in through the firewire port but I don't know of any AVCHD cameras that have a firewire port to which one could connect an MRC . You can't record AVCHD to an MRC. You do know that Windows has a bug where HDV gets listed as being file type "AVCHD?" This leads me to ask if you are seeing the loss of synch when you bring the file into an AVCHD timeline? HDV is an mpeg2 transport stream while AVCHD is and mpeg 4 transport stream. If you have been using an AVCHD preset for your timeline in PPro when the loss of synch has been occurring, try a pre-set for an HDV timeline. Also, is the loss of synch also happening when you play it in the source monitor, as well as from the timeline? Have you been able to play HDV files previously and are just seeing the problem with this particular file? Might try a recapture. If none of the foregoing is the problem, you may have some incompatability or system glitch. An "intermediate," such as Cineform NeoHD or NeoScene might fix the problem. Actually, I first started using Cineform under PPro CS3 because I often had the kind of audio-synch trouble (the same one you described) when I captured HDV from tape into PPro. Capturing the file with HD Link (or whatever Cineform called it back then) and then doing the conversion to a Cineform AVI seemed to fix the problem. You can download a fully functional 30-day version from the Cineform Website, run a conversion and see if you still lose synch between the audio and video. Other factors could be at play here. What camera did you shoot the video with and what format did you use? Did you maybe shoot 24F with a Canon XHA1? What are the specs of the computer you editing with? An older system (say a Core 2 Duo) or an underpowered laptop can exhibit audio synch problems. . A lot to think about and maybe most of it is off base, but I hope it helps.

March 5th, 2011, 02:56 AM	#7
Chris Duczynski Major Player Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: sydney Posts: 304	Re: audio synch problem with MRC1 on capture to CS5 Exactly!! The MRC is in devices and printers but nothing else. Windows reconises $15 CF card reader but not a $800 Sony product. Good to know thanks Jay

March 5th, 2011, 10:36 AM	#8
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	Re: audio synch problem with MRC1 on capture to CS5 The card reader is a better option anyway. I've heard of people messing up their units plugging them into the computer. I'm not sure how they did it but for me the card reader option is faster.

March 5th, 2011, 11:38 AM	#9
Jay West Major Player Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Red Lodge, Montana Posts: 889	A good card reader can be much faster and is recommended. The way people tend to "mess up" their units is be trying to use the computer to format or perform file operations other than copying the files (e.g., using My Computer to move or delete files from the card), Only do those things in the MRC when it is not connected to the computer. Windows not recognizing the device is either a Windows or a Sony thing, or a maybe combination of them both. Like I said, every couple of months I get some odd USB issue. For a while, Win 7 listed my USB drives as hard drives in Win Explorer but the Device Manager said they were CD drives and only allowed transfers at 5 mb/sec. It took six or seven uninstalls and re-installs of the devices before Win 7 treated them properly again. By the way, shouldn't this thread be moved to the MRC forum? It really does not have anything to do with AVCHD.