Misconception in AVCHD editing

Denny Kyser · July 26th, 2009, 01:16 PM

Thanks everyone, downloading CS4 now

Robert Young · July 26th, 2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Kyser

Thanks everyone, downloading CS4 now

If you are downloading the trial version keep in mind that some features are inactive.

Milutin Labudovic · July 26th, 2009, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Milutin Labudovic

pass mi for download original file of a 1 minute length, so i can try my computer, or a link to some raw avchd file. have goggled but with no success. thnx

have found some canon raw footage...

edit: ...and tried it. canon hg21: it works OK, do procesor is arround 90% load. it is not as flawless as HDV, which takes only about 30% of proccesors power, it was possible to move timeline OK, and play is responsive in reasonable manor. no comforting or importing of file. computer play raw files with VLC player with no probs.
so XP-x86, premiere CS4, dualcore@2.00ghz, 2gb ram can handle AVCHD files for amateur use.

Erik Phairas · July 26th, 2009, 07:05 PM

Sony Vegas works better with Sony cameras when it comes to AVCHD (so I've heard). I edit Xdcam and my SR11 in the same timeline all the time. Full bitrate AVCHD stutters a tiny bit when playing at preview full but anything other than the full 16mbps and it plays as good as the XDcam... nice and smooth.

My computer specs are in my sig.

Brandon Clark · July 27th, 2009, 12:04 PM

My experience so far with AVCHD in Premiere CS4. Camera is a Canon HF S10. PC is 32bit vista with a quad core 2.4ghz and 3gb of ram and Nvidia 8800GT. The highest setting in the camera is 24mb and does not edit very smoothly. As you add more clips to the project or longer times it only gets worse.

The playback preview is so-so, sometimes I have to stop and start it again to let it figure out what its doing and catch up. Rolling edits in the trim monitor are too slow to use really. Doing basic cuts is about all you'll really want to do with this bitrate.

Next down is 17mb from the Canon. I found this to rarely hiccup the software, but it does happen, I am able to use all editing tools and have no complaints. This video resolution is still very good DVD quality but not something you're going to burn a BD with.

I dont have any experience with the other lower video settings in the camera. I've seen a couple comments regarding XDCAM, which isnt AVCHD. AVCHD is achieving a higher compression with h.264 so naturally any XDCAM is going to be easier to edit natively.

Barry Green · July 31st, 2009, 09:29 AM

If you're using CS4, make sure that you update to version 4.1.

Secondly, your graphics card will make a HUGE difference in how AVCHD performs under CS4.1. With an nVidia CUDA-enabled graphics card, CS4 will take advantage of the graphic's card GPU acceleration to provide a realtime editing experience even on a 2.4GHz dual-core laptop.

Jay Bloomfield · August 3rd, 2009, 09:31 AM

I thought that Premiere Pro CS4 uses Open GL preview (decoding) acceleration and only natively used CUDA (for encoding) with certain nVidia Quadro video cards (like the CX). You can get CUDA-accelerated previews in PP CS4 with both the 3rd party Elemental and DIVIDE-FRAME plug-ins, though.

Rob Taylor · August 5th, 2009, 02:06 PM

Earlier I made a post about not having any problems with Adobe Premiere Elements version 7 editing and play AVCHD files. I wanted to pass on this tip on how I got AVCHD editing smoothly on a dual core processor.

To get Adobe Premiere Elements 7 and Premiere CS4 to edit and playback AVCHD smoothly, make sure you have a video card a GPU. Do NOT use the video card built-in to the motherboard of the computer.

Then In Adobe Premiere Elements 7

Click Edit
Select Project Settings
Select General
On the right side of the Project Setting window, click on Playback Settings
Look on the right side for Desktop Display Mode
Select Accelerated GPU Effects
Click Ok.

In Adobe Premiere CS4
Select Project
Select General
On the right side of the Project Setting window, click on Playback Settings
Look on the right side for Desktop Display Mode
Select Accelerated GPU Effects
Click Ok.

This is how I am able to edit AVCHD on with a dual core AMD processor running at 4600+ with no problems.

Again my system is running Vista Home 32bit, with 4 gigs of ram.
Rob

Ronald Lee · August 15th, 2009, 01:13 AM

Say Robert,

I am trying to decide between Elements 7 and CS4. I was weighing more towards Elements as CS4 looked like overkill for me, but I am trying out the trial for Elements and it seems like there isn't that much fine control over each clip. Mind you, I haven't gone deep enough in the program yet (would like to have fine, not gross, control over color, sharpness, cuts right down to the frame, etc...).

How do you like Elements, is it really versatile with the editing and would I miss CS4 once I learned how to use it? Or let me ask this way, can you do really good editing on it, like a movie or music video?

Brian Tori · August 15th, 2009, 07:15 AM

Rob,

Are you sure that within CS4 you are able to select "accelerated GPU effects?" I have a Nvidia 9500GT card with CS4 and do not have the option to select. I think this was CS3 only option.

Rob Taylor · August 16th, 2009, 04:52 PM

Hi Brian,

My mistake I meant CS3. I have both CS3 and CS4 each on a different computers. After I read your post I went back and double checked and you are correct. Thanks for pointing out my mistake.

Rob

Rob Taylor · August 16th, 2009, 05:02 PM

Ronald,

I never tried the Premiere Elements trail version so I don't know what or if things are disabled in the trail version.

You will have control over the cuts down to the frame and the color control does allow for fine control. I've never used the sharpness control so I can't comment on that.

Orginally I had Premiere CS3 and bought Elements to edit AVCHD footage. Since then I have bought CS4 for a second computer and I'm very pleased with it.

Surprisingly Premiere Elements 7 is very powerful. You might download the Premiere CS4 trail and see which one you like best.

Rob

Adam Palomer · October 29th, 2009, 08:53 PM

If your computer has a gaming graphics card instead of one aimed at video/photo editing, your rendering times are going to go through the roof. Many articles recommend the nVidia Quadro FX series. I might get the FX 1800 myself.

Ian Newland · December 31st, 2009, 07:15 PM

No problems here editing natively with Sony Vega 8c or 9c with AVCHD at 17mb and 24mbs from Canon HF10 and Panasonic HMC152. I just leave the color correction and heavy effects if any till last. Preview is stutter free and smooth, render is at 100% with Core2duo E8400 3.00Ghz, XP, 4Gb ram, 2 internal sata drives, Asus P5Q Pro Turbo motheroard, ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro Graphics card 512mb.

Happy with pushing color correction, Vegas settings at default 4 threads and prerender ram at 512mb.

No lockups or memory runouts, very happy, forget Magic bullets looks, you can get the same looks with the Sony modules. Although i do use the free AAV ColorLab 6 way color correction plugin the most, highly recommend it.

Cheers Rambo

Rog Mogale · December 31st, 2009, 08:49 PM

We have a very similar system Ian.

I’m running Vegas 9c with 17mbs AVCHD files. I used to have a Core2duo 2.5GHz processor and I could not get real time preview without a lot of stuttering. Last week I upgraded the processor to a Q9550 2.83GHz quad core and I get real time previews without any problems, even with the preview set to best and full its only using 28% of the processor. I get the same 28% of processor usage if I edit 50mbs 4:2:2 .MXF clips. The difference is that the 17mbs AVCHD clips will push the processor to over 100% when I apply a dissolve between clips and the preview starts stuttering, whilst the MXF clips still preview perfectly whilst applying a dissolve.

And real time colour correction or FX will push the processor to over 100% when editing the 17mbs AVCHD clips and the preview will stutter. Real time magic bullet makes things even worse and you might be lucky to see the preview updated every 1 second when applying a look.

I’m using two 22” monitors with an ATI Radeon HD2600 Pro graphics card (256mb). I also use 2 very fast SATA drivers with one as a system drive and the other as a project drive. The motherboard is an Asus P5K and memory is 4Gb.

I have to say that if I was editing AVCHD files on my system and doing straight edits between clips I would be really happy. I would only see around 28% of processor use and I can have the best resolution preview on my second monitor at full screen size if I need it. The trouble is that I use quite a few dissolves and like some heavy FX going on like vignettes, grads and colour correction. This makes real time editing impossible, even if I just do the dissolves.

I’m thinking about applying the grads, vignettes and film look on individual clips then rendering them to a cineform AVI file and doing the final edit with the cineform AVI’s . I know this doesn’t leave my options open, but I kind of know how I want each clip to look like and it makes editing easier if I can see what the final clip will look like whilst doing the final edit. Does anyone else work this way or are there any problems by doing this.

Where do you get AAV ColorLab 6 from.

And happy New Year everyone.

July 26th, 2009, 01:16 PM	#16
Denny Kyser Major Player Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Warren, Pa Posts: 785	Thanks everyone, downloading CS4 now __________________ 2 Canon XF305's Kyser Photography www.kyserphoto.com

July 26th, 2009, 07:05 PM	#19
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	Sony Vegas works better with Sony cameras when it comes to AVCHD (so I've heard). I edit Xdcam and my SR11 in the same timeline all the time. Full bitrate AVCHD stutters a tiny bit when playing at preview full but anything other than the full 16mbps and it plays as good as the XDcam... nice and smooth. My computer specs are in my sig. __________________ EX3, Q6600 Quad core PC - Vista 64, Vegas 8.1 64bit, SR11 b-cam

July 27th, 2009, 12:04 PM	#20
Brandon Clark Tourist Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Menifee, Ca. Posts: 3	My experience so far with AVCHD in Premiere CS4. Camera is a Canon HF S10. PC is 32bit vista with a quad core 2.4ghz and 3gb of ram and Nvidia 8800GT. The highest setting in the camera is 24mb and does not edit very smoothly. As you add more clips to the project or longer times it only gets worse. The playback preview is so-so, sometimes I have to stop and start it again to let it figure out what its doing and catch up. Rolling edits in the trim monitor are too slow to use really. Doing basic cuts is about all you'll really want to do with this bitrate. Next down is 17mb from the Canon. I found this to rarely hiccup the software, but it does happen, I am able to use all editing tools and have no complaints. This video resolution is still very good DVD quality but not something you're going to burn a BD with. I dont have any experience with the other lower video settings in the camera. I've seen a couple comments regarding XDCAM, which isnt AVCHD. AVCHD is achieving a higher compression with h.264 so naturally any XDCAM is going to be easier to edit natively.

July 31st, 2009, 09:29 AM	#21
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	If you're using CS4, make sure that you update to version 4.1. Secondly, your graphics card will make a HUGE difference in how AVCHD performs under CS4.1. With an nVidia CUDA-enabled graphics card, CS4 will take advantage of the graphic's card GPU acceleration to provide a realtime editing experience even on a 2.4GHz dual-core laptop.

August 3rd, 2009, 09:31 AM	#22
Jay Bloomfield Major Player Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Voorheesville, NY Posts: 433	I thought that Premiere Pro CS4 uses Open GL preview (decoding) acceleration and only natively used CUDA (for encoding) with certain nVidia Quadro video cards (like the CX). You can get CUDA-accelerated previews in PP CS4 with both the 3rd party Elemental and DIVIDE-FRAME plug-ins, though.

August 5th, 2009, 02:06 PM	#23
Rob Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Wilmington DE Posts: 98	Earlier I made a post about not having any problems with Adobe Premiere Elements version 7 editing and play AVCHD files. I wanted to pass on this tip on how I got AVCHD editing smoothly on a dual core processor. To get Adobe Premiere Elements 7 and Premiere CS4 to edit and playback AVCHD smoothly, make sure you have a video card a GPU. Do NOT use the video card built-in to the motherboard of the computer. Then In Adobe Premiere Elements 7 Click Edit Select Project Settings Select General On the right side of the Project Setting window, click on Playback Settings Look on the right side for Desktop Display Mode Select Accelerated GPU Effects Click Ok. In Adobe Premiere CS4 Select Project Select General On the right side of the Project Setting window, click on Playback Settings Look on the right side for Desktop Display Mode Select Accelerated GPU Effects Click Ok. This is how I am able to edit AVCHD on with a dual core AMD processor running at 4600+ with no problems. Again my system is running Vista Home 32bit, with 4 gigs of ram. Rob

August 15th, 2009, 01:13 AM	#24
Ronald Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 435	Say Robert, I am trying to decide between Elements 7 and CS4. I was weighing more towards Elements as CS4 looked like overkill for me, but I am trying out the trial for Elements and it seems like there isn't that much fine control over each clip. Mind you, I haven't gone deep enough in the program yet (would like to have fine, not gross, control over color, sharpness, cuts right down to the frame, etc...). How do you like Elements, is it really versatile with the editing and would I miss CS4 once I learned how to use it? Or let me ask this way, can you do really good editing on it, like a movie or music video?

August 15th, 2009, 07:15 AM	#25
Brian Tori Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 408	Rob, Are you sure that within CS4 you are able to select "accelerated GPU effects?" I have a Nvidia 9500GT card with CS4 and do not have the option to select. I think this was CS3 only option.

August 16th, 2009, 04:52 PM	#26
Rob Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Wilmington DE Posts: 98	Hi Brian, My mistake I meant CS3. I have both CS3 and CS4 each on a different computers. After I read your post I went back and double checked and you are correct. Thanks for pointing out my mistake. Rob

August 16th, 2009, 05:02 PM	#27
Rob Taylor Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Wilmington DE Posts: 98	Ronald, I never tried the Premiere Elements trail version so I don't know what or if things are disabled in the trail version. You will have control over the cuts down to the frame and the color control does allow for fine control. I've never used the sharpness control so I can't comment on that. Orginally I had Premiere CS3 and bought Elements to edit AVCHD footage. Since then I have bought CS4 for a second computer and I'm very pleased with it. Surprisingly Premiere Elements 7 is very powerful. You might download the Premiere CS4 trail and see which one you like best. Rob

October 29th, 2009, 08:53 PM	#28
Adam Palomer Regular Crew Join Date: May 2006 Location: Summit, NJ Posts: 169	If your computer has a gaming graphics card instead of one aimed at video/photo editing, your rendering times are going to go through the roof. Many articles recommend the nVidia Quadro FX series. I might get the FX 1800 myself.

December 31st, 2009, 07:15 PM	#29
Ian Newland Major Player Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 319	No problems here editing natively with Sony Vega 8c or 9c with AVCHD at 17mb and 24mbs from Canon HF10 and Panasonic HMC152. I just leave the color correction and heavy effects if any till last. Preview is stutter free and smooth, render is at 100% with Core2duo E8400 3.00Ghz, XP, 4Gb ram, 2 internal sata drives, Asus P5Q Pro Turbo motheroard, ATI Radeon HD 2400 Pro Graphics card 512mb. Happy with pushing color correction, Vegas settings at default 4 threads and prerender ram at 512mb. No lockups or memory runouts, very happy, forget Magic bullets looks, you can get the same looks with the Sony modules. Although i do use the free AAV ColorLab 6 way color correction plugin the most, highly recommend it. Cheers Rambo

December 31st, 2009, 08:49 PM	#30
Rog Mogale Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: UK Posts: 25	We have a very similar system Ian. I’m running Vegas 9c with 17mbs AVCHD files. I used to have a Core2duo 2.5GHz processor and I could not get real time preview without a lot of stuttering. Last week I upgraded the processor to a Q9550 2.83GHz quad core and I get real time previews without any problems, even with the preview set to best and full its only using 28% of the processor. I get the same 28% of processor usage if I edit 50mbs 4:2:2 .MXF clips. The difference is that the 17mbs AVCHD clips will push the processor to over 100% when I apply a dissolve between clips and the preview starts stuttering, whilst the MXF clips still preview perfectly whilst applying a dissolve. And real time colour correction or FX will push the processor to over 100% when editing the 17mbs AVCHD clips and the preview will stutter. Real time magic bullet makes things even worse and you might be lucky to see the preview updated every 1 second when applying a look. I’m using two 22” monitors with an ATI Radeon HD2600 Pro graphics card (256mb). I also use 2 very fast SATA drivers with one as a system drive and the other as a project drive. The motherboard is an Asus P5K and memory is 4Gb. I have to say that if I was editing AVCHD files on my system and doing straight edits between clips I would be really happy. I would only see around 28% of processor use and I can have the best resolution preview on my second monitor at full screen size if I need it. The trouble is that I use quite a few dissolves and like some heavy FX going on like vignettes, grads and colour correction. This makes real time editing impossible, even if I just do the dissolves. I’m thinking about applying the grads, vignettes and film look on individual clips then rendering them to a cineform AVI file and doing the final edit with the cineform AVI’s . I know this doesn’t leave my options open, but I kind of know how I want each clip to look like and it makes editing easier if I can see what the final clip will look like whilst doing the final edit. Does anyone else work this way or are there any problems by doing this. Where do you get AAV ColorLab 6 from. And happy New Year everyone.