AVCHD multi-camera editing in CS4 at DVinfo.net

Jun Na · April 21st, 2009, 12:08 PM

There are many discussions about editing AVCHD, but no luck finding answer I need for my situation. Since native ACVHD editing requires more than a supercomputer specially for multi-camera editing, I gotta find a way around or get rid of SR11 I recently acquire.

I've tried most of leading transcoders below to make it work on my loaded the latest Macbook Pro. 3-4 HDV tracks for multi-camera editing works flawlessly on my Mac but as soon as I add one AVCHD track (both native and transcoded) it stops working. It could be Premiere CS4 memory management issue or simply my Mac cannot handle it. I haven't used FCP since ver 3.0, so I have no clue if it works on the latest FCP. I just can't afford another FX1000 for fixed position shot. The only other way I can possible do is editing from timeline panel rather than opening up the multi-camera monitor.

Cineform (Neoscens and NeoHD)
Voltaic HD
Apple iMovie Import
TMPGEnc (PC)

If anyone can share your success story of multi-camera editing with AVCHD track on it, it'd be much appreciated.

Jun

Paul R Johnson · April 21st, 2009, 02:16 PM

Since I started with AVCHD and CS4 I've been happy. I do a lot of multicam in SD, but never tried it with HD. I just loaded 4 clips, copied from the SD card to the hard drive. Set up a multicam sequence and without rendering, as expected, the picture froze and jerked a couple of times. I rendered the multicam sequence, it froze and the cuts didn't happen. After 5 minutes, the timeline updated with cuts, but all over the place. I tried to play it and....... it froze, needing a reboot. 3GHz Intel Duo with 8G ram, Hmmmm. I'll fire it up again and try something else.

EDIT

2nd time it didn't crash, but the results are very poor. Not remotely usable. So multicam in AVCHD, even from files on the internal drive don't work. I'll have a twiddle and see if I can solve it.

EDIT 2
Nope = I tried exporting the AVCHD files to all sorts of formats, but any attempt to get multiple HD streams running just doesn't work.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · April 21st, 2009, 03:19 PM

Since I use CS3, I have to transcode any AVCHD files via Neo Scene (which works perfectly)
I haven't thought about multi-cam editing in HD until this thread, so I just dropped four transcoded Cineform clips onto the timeline and fired up the multi-cam mode.
They ran faultlessly and I ended up with perfect cuts on the timeline.
There must be a whole lot more going on under the bonnet with CS4 I guess, but being able to edit painlessly in CS3 vis Neo Scene has stoppd me from upgrading for the foreseeable future...

Mark Townsend · April 21st, 2009, 09:46 PM

Wait...you were able to play a NeoScene transcoded AVI on a CS3 timeline? I just tried that tonight and it didn't work. The video just showed up as green in the viewer. I had audio...just couldn't see any video.

Sony CX12
Cineform NeoScene (latest version)
CS3

Clint Harmon · April 22nd, 2009, 12:54 AM

Initially when I started using AVCHD and CS4, I nearly had a heart attack. Everything I tryed didn't seem to work, consitant crashing and premiere pro freezing. After I installed NeoScene, CS4 seems to read straight AVCHD files with ease, even without converting. I have 5 cameras recording on AVCHD and I have not had a problem since installing NeoScene. What also seemed to help the most is editing and saving the files on the same hard drive that you are storing the raw AVCHD files. I also have 1 project that has 1000+ AVCHD clips in the library, takes 30 minutes to load and sometimes crashes computer. When it doesn't crash it works like a charm.

My computer:
Q6600 quad core 2.4
8gb ram
3tb storage
pos video card
xp64
cs4

EDIT

Oh and I did try to do a multicamera setup and cant seem to get it to work. So...dont use multicam. Do it the old fashion way :.( I guess theres something to be said about growing up on linear editing with only 2 decks.

Paul R Johnson · April 22nd, 2009, 01:08 AM

probably to early to say for certain, but we seem to all be saying that we can get AVCHD clips into CS4 without too much trouble - one of the main reasons for doing the upgrade for me was this ability - which does wok fine for normal editing. Few of us have yet tried multicam HD editing of these files, and as people are just quickly having a go, after reading this topic, the results are not encouraging.

What we need is for somebody to report it works properly, as it does in SD. Until then, we're guessing where the bottleneck is. My admittedly weak understanding of computers suggests that the issues could be:

Transfer speed coming off the HD or SD card via whatever interface it uses - can multiple HD streams exist intact?

Coding issues - is the processor speedy enough to carry out the processing required in real time

Plain and simple processing speed - clock speeds and multiple processor cores?

Or is it a combination of all these things? The fact it doesn't work properly is worrying - My purchase of a new expensive camera is on hold until I can sort this out. If I cannot do HD multicam, I need a plan B. I'm cross, because it never occurred to me to try it before reading this topic.

Robin Davies-Rollinson · April 22nd, 2009, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Townsend

The video just showed up as green in the viewer. I had audio...just couldn't see any video.

Mark,
I cut all my AVCHD material transcoded via Neo Scene with Premiere CS3 - and never had any trouble.
Perhaps David Newman from Cineform will pick this up and offer some help...

Jun Na · April 23rd, 2009, 02:18 PM

Thanks for all the reply.

It only happens to Mac user running Premiere CS4. Apparently premiere doesn't like quicktime intermediate codecs. Not only AVCHD trascoded .mov clips but any .mov (quicktime) file that i import has the issue - stuttered and choppy playback. If I render it in timeline, it plays nicely but not enough to handle with multi-cam monitor on.

I tested the same AVCHD clips transcoded into .avi with any transcoders in my old PC. It runs perfect with editing multi-cam.

Any thoughts? thanks!

Jun

Jack Falbey · April 24th, 2009, 11:30 PM

I took 4 different 1920x1080 AVCHD clips from an HMC150, that were converted to AVI using Neo Scene, into Premiere CS3's Multi-Cam Editor on my Dell laptop with 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo with 4GB RAM running XP Pro 32-bit, and it cut and edited flawlessly. Hope this helps!

Paul R Johnson · April 25th, 2009, 12:49 PM

I'll have a go on CS3 on my old machine - didn't think about trying it on the old one - thanks. I'm just starting to get concerned about time. Most of my work consists of four cameras each recording two hours of material - the prospects for producing avis are a little time intensive?

Brian Tori · April 25th, 2009, 01:53 PM

Instead of transcoding to avi or prores has anybody tried multicam work while using this product:

http://www.newbluefx.com/avchd-upshift.html

I tried the demo on avchd footage and it seems to work well. Basically turns your avchd footage into mpeg2 .m2t files.

Paul R Johnson · April 25th, 2009, 04:41 PM

I just downloaded the demo, converted a few files with ten second conversion - dropped a few on the timeline, started multicam and it worked flawlessly. I'm rather surprised, and pleased. I suspect it is worth the $50. Rather annoying that Adobe couldn't just build the functionality into their software in the first place, so you didn't have to rely on 3rd party software - but thank goodness it's sorted. AND it didn't need rendering. I'll try to assess the quality when I have a moment. thanks for the tip. paul

Brian Tori · April 26th, 2009, 01:31 PM

No problem Paul. What I like about using the software to convert to .m2t is that you can preserve the original file sizes vs. having an avi or prores file that is 4x the original size. Also, it's obviously much less processor intensive. I plan on using this method on a couple of upcoming avchd projects. I plan on just doing a batch conversion on import right to mpeg2. This way, I save a step of having to import the original avchd footage and then doing the mpeg2 conversion.

April 21st, 2009, 12:08 PM	#1
Jun Na New Boot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 14	AVCHD multi-camera editing in CS4 There are many discussions about editing AVCHD, but no luck finding answer I need for my situation. Since native ACVHD editing requires more than a supercomputer specially for multi-camera editing, I gotta find a way around or get rid of SR11 I recently acquire. I've tried most of leading transcoders below to make it work on my loaded the latest Macbook Pro. 3-4 HDV tracks for multi-camera editing works flawlessly on my Mac but as soon as I add one AVCHD track (both native and transcoded) it stops working. It could be Premiere CS4 memory management issue or simply my Mac cannot handle it. I haven't used FCP since ver 3.0, so I have no clue if it works on the latest FCP. I just can't afford another FX1000 for fixed position shot. The only other way I can possible do is editing from timeline panel rather than opening up the multi-camera monitor. Cineform (Neoscens and NeoHD) Voltaic HD Apple iMovie Import TMPGEnc (PC) If anyone can share your success story of multi-camera editing with AVCHD track on it, it'd be much appreciated. Jun

April 21st, 2009, 02:16 PM	#2
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	Since I started with AVCHD and CS4 I've been happy. I do a lot of multicam in SD, but never tried it with HD. I just loaded 4 clips, copied from the SD card to the hard drive. Set up a multicam sequence and without rendering, as expected, the picture froze and jerked a couple of times. I rendered the multicam sequence, it froze and the cuts didn't happen. After 5 minutes, the timeline updated with cuts, but all over the place. I tried to play it and....... it froze, needing a reboot. 3GHz Intel Duo with 8G ram, Hmmmm. I'll fire it up again and try something else. EDIT 2nd time it didn't crash, but the results are very poor. Not remotely usable. So multicam in AVCHD, even from files on the internal drive don't work. I'll have a twiddle and see if I can solve it. EDIT 2 Nope = I tried exporting the AVCHD files to all sorts of formats, but any attempt to get multiple HD streams running just doesn't work. Last edited by Paul R Johnson; April 21st, 2009 at 03:28 PM.

April 23rd, 2009, 02:18 PM	#8
Jun Na New Boot Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 14	Quicktime Intermediate Codec Thanks for all the reply. It only happens to Mac user running Premiere CS4. Apparently premiere doesn't like quicktime intermediate codecs. Not only AVCHD trascoded .mov clips but any .mov (quicktime) file that i import has the issue - stuttered and choppy playback. If I render it in timeline, it plays nicely but not enough to handle with multi-cam monitor on. I tested the same AVCHD clips transcoded into .avi with any transcoders in my old PC. It runs perfect with editing multi-cam. Any thoughts? thanks! Jun

April 24th, 2009, 11:30 PM	#9
Jack Falbey Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Cleveland, TN Posts: 45	Works fine on PC running CS3 I took 4 different 1920x1080 AVCHD clips from an HMC150, that were converted to AVI using Neo Scene, into Premiere CS3's Multi-Cam Editor on my Dell laptop with 2.2GHz Core 2 Duo with 4GB RAM running XP Pro 32-bit, and it cut and edited flawlessly. Hope this helps! __________________ "We'll fix it in post," said no videographer, EVER!

April 21st, 2009, 03:19 PM	#3
Robin Davies-Rollinson Trustee Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Gwaelod-y-garth, Cardiff, CYMRU/WALES Posts: 1,215	Since I use CS3, I have to transcode any AVCHD files via Neo Scene (which works perfectly) I haven't thought about multi-cam editing in HD until this thread, so I just dropped four transcoded Cineform clips onto the timeline and fired up the multi-cam mode. They ran faultlessly and I ended up with perfect cuts on the timeline. There must be a whole lot more going on under the bonnet with CS4 I guess, but being able to edit painlessly in CS3 vis Neo Scene has stoppd me from upgrading for the foreseeable future...

April 21st, 2009, 09:46 PM	#4
Mark Townsend Tourist Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: West Monroe, LA Posts: 4	Wait...you were able to play a NeoScene transcoded AVI on a CS3 timeline? I just tried that tonight and it didn't work. The video just showed up as green in the viewer. I had audio...just couldn't see any video. Sony CX12 Cineform NeoScene (latest version) CS3

April 22nd, 2009, 12:54 AM	#5
Clint Harmon Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Port Charlotte, Florida Posts: 104	Initially when I started using AVCHD and CS4, I nearly had a heart attack. Everything I tryed didn't seem to work, consitant crashing and premiere pro freezing. After I installed NeoScene, CS4 seems to read straight AVCHD files with ease, even without converting. I have 5 cameras recording on AVCHD and I have not had a problem since installing NeoScene. What also seemed to help the most is editing and saving the files on the same hard drive that you are storing the raw AVCHD files. I also have 1 project that has 1000+ AVCHD clips in the library, takes 30 minutes to load and sometimes crashes computer. When it doesn't crash it works like a charm. My computer: Q6600 quad core 2.4 8gb ram 3tb storage pos video card xp64 cs4 EDIT Oh and I did try to do a multicamera setup and cant seem to get it to work. So...dont use multicam. Do it the old fashion way :.( I guess theres something to be said about growing up on linear editing with only 2 decks.

April 22nd, 2009, 01:08 AM	#6
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	probably to early to say for certain, but we seem to all be saying that we can get AVCHD clips into CS4 without too much trouble - one of the main reasons for doing the upgrade for me was this ability - which does wok fine for normal editing. Few of us have yet tried multicam HD editing of these files, and as people are just quickly having a go, after reading this topic, the results are not encouraging. What we need is for somebody to report it works properly, as it does in SD. Until then, we're guessing where the bottleneck is. My admittedly weak understanding of computers suggests that the issues could be: Transfer speed coming off the HD or SD card via whatever interface it uses - can multiple HD streams exist intact? Coding issues - is the processor speedy enough to carry out the processing required in real time Plain and simple processing speed - clock speeds and multiple processor cores? Or is it a combination of all these things? The fact it doesn't work properly is worrying - My purchase of a new expensive camera is on hold until I can sort this out. If I cannot do HD multicam, I need a plan B. I'm cross, because it never occurred to me to try it before reading this topic.

April 25th, 2009, 12:49 PM	#10
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	I'll have a go on CS3 on my old machine - didn't think about trying it on the old one - thanks. I'm just starting to get concerned about time. Most of my work consists of four cameras each recording two hours of material - the prospects for producing avis are a little time intensive?

April 25th, 2009, 01:53 PM	#11
Brian Tori Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 408	Instead of transcoding to avi or prores has anybody tried multicam work while using this product: http://www.newbluefx.com/avchd-upshift.html I tried the demo on avchd footage and it seems to work well. Basically turns your avchd footage into mpeg2 .m2t files.

April 25th, 2009, 04:41 PM	#12
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,045	I just downloaded the demo, converted a few files with ten second conversion - dropped a few on the timeline, started multicam and it worked flawlessly. I'm rather surprised, and pleased. I suspect it is worth the $50. Rather annoying that Adobe couldn't just build the functionality into their software in the first place, so you didn't have to rely on 3rd party software - but thank goodness it's sorted. AND it didn't need rendering. I'll try to assess the quality when I have a moment. thanks for the tip. paul

April 26th, 2009, 01:31 PM	#13
Brian Tori Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 408	No problem Paul. What I like about using the software to convert to .m2t is that you can preserve the original file sizes vs. having an avi or prores file that is 4x the original size. Also, it's obviously much less processor intensive. I plan on using this method on a couple of upcoming avchd projects. I plan on just doing a batch conversion on import right to mpeg2. This way, I save a step of having to import the original avchd footage and then doing the mpeg2 conversion.