little bit of SR11 fun

Dave Blackhurst · October 14th, 2008, 09:23 PM

I've been pleasantly surprised by how good the SR11 is - even in an indoor reception shoot I'm pretty happy with it (used a little on cam light for fill). I know it isn't as impressive or as easily adjusted as a big cam, but the image quality is stunning - nothing to complain about that I can find. The EX definitely does better in low light with that big glass on the front, but if that's an EX in yer pocket, you'd REALLY be glad to see me... The SR does pretty well for a "pocket rocket"!

FWIW, that WA is like chaining a race car to a light post... definitely a SD lens, and IIRC it's a pretty simple single element sort of thing... so if the SR still looked that good, it's impressive. I've got several different WA lenses with the 37mm thread, and there's a huge difference between the SD lenses and the HG lenses, and even a significant difference between the various HG0737 versions. The current "C" version is nice since it's light and compact, but still can't hold a candle to the previous "Y" version. I'd expect ANY of the HG lenses to look better than the one you used, by a significant margin.

Also, a lower grade WA can knock off a significant amount of light sensitivity...

Erik Phairas · October 14th, 2008, 09:27 PM

thanks for the heads up! I've done testing with and without it... it doesn't kill it too bad except for the edges.. but I'd like to get a proper HD wide angle for it.

Dave Blackhurst · October 14th, 2008, 10:00 PM

You'd be surprised at the difference a GOOD WA makes. I had the VCL-0637 - neat little lens, still have one around for that extra .1! BUT, you can see the image is both darker and less detailed when side by side with one of the HG lenses... that's even in the LCD...

The HG0737C is a fairly decent lens, especially since finding a "Y" is nearly impossible - I have 2 of each model, and as tempting as it is to reduce my collection of lenses, I don't think I'd get rid of them as long as I have 37mm thread cameras - both serve a purpose. If you don't mind a bit of tendency to lens flare, the HG0737(no suffix) and the HG0737X are about equal to the "C".

Life's too short for cheap glass... and presuming Sony sticks with the 37mm thread diameter, the lenses should be around for a while - I collected most of mine back when I was using HC1's... added a couple "C"s more recently as they allow the CX7/12 to fit in the sports packs with the lens fitted.

Erik Phairas · October 15th, 2008, 12:23 AM

The first video in the thread.. the goonies video.. AVCHD Sony HDR SR11 Demo on Vimeo is a combination of wide adapter and stock lens. Bascily if you see zoom I popped off the adapter..

Doesn't totally kill it in my opinion but like I said. I would like a true HD lens. :)

Martyn Hull · October 15th, 2008, 01:51 AM

I have a sony VCL-HG2037Y 2X which i bought for my HC-1,i know it fits my SR12 thread size but i have not tried it as it looks too big in my opinion for the little cam and may harm it any thoughts on this.

Dave Blackhurst · October 15th, 2008, 07:58 PM

Those "Y" series lenses are certainly huge... I actually weighed the 0737Y out of curiousity - 12 oz... almost as heavy as my CX12 at 1.1 pounds (17 oz!)...

I don't think there's any danger in mounting the lenses - IIRC even the HC1 had plastic threads, so the threading/mount shouldn't be an issue. The real challenge becomes how front heavy these little cams become with all that mass forward! The current "C" lens is a lot lighter and better matched weight and size wise, but if I want the highest image quality, I'd still use the "Y".

Rick DeBari · October 16th, 2008, 02:42 AM

FYI Dave & Erik,

B&H has a used VCL-HG0737Y in stock for $79.00.

Used Sony | VCL-HG0737Y High-grade Wide Angle | VCLHG0737Y | B&H

I would buy it for my SR11 but I think its a tad heavy for run and gun shooting.

I checked the specs and the new "C" version has 3 lens elements vs 6 elements on the bigger "Y". Hence the weight difference.
From my experience, usually more elements means better quality with lenses but not always. Some of the newer computer-designed lenses perform well with less glass. I will most likely purchase the "C" version for my SR11 to save the 6 ounces of weight.

Dave Blackhurst · October 16th, 2008, 11:41 AM

Rick -

Yep, the Y is pretty darn heavy, but that's a great price (about half what the C runs). If I didn't have two already, I'd be tempted to snag it!

There's definitely more barrel distortion on the C, the Y has almost NO visible barelling - and it's very crisp. BUT, it's heavy 2x the weight of the C it looks like, and it's also about 50% thicker... 2 1/4" vs 1 1/2"... so yes, the Y is a beast!

Out of curiousity, I just A/B'd the two lenses on the SR11 - interestingly, it appears the C is ever so slightly wider (aparently .7 has some flex in the spec), so the barelling issue COULD be the extra couple degrees of view. The other thing I noticed is the SR11 focus hunts a bit more with the C mounted than the Y when fully zoomed (and I'd presume this would apply to the range), and the Y has a slightly brighter overall image, meaning there's about one exposure increment (per the camera exposure adjustment) difference between the two - this is what I was mentioning about different WA lenses potentially causing differing amounts of light loss when mounted. SO there's a smidge of performance difference...

On the SR11, the Y is less awkward than on a CX12 as the SR has more heft to begin with, maybe you throw a FH100 on the back end to help balance it out (still nose heavy, but not as much), but now you've lost the size and weight advantage of the small cam!

From my view, you should probably have the Y around for tripod mount or when image/low light matters, but the C is better for general use... you're talking minor differences in any event, and so if weight/size are an issue again the C might be better for many shooters.

Either would be better than the SD lens Erik was using... still it was a great test, very helpful for me in confirming that the SR is a bargain... doesn't mean I wouldn't love to have an EX1/EX3, but I'm pretty amazed at how well the SR11 holds it's own.

Martyn Hull · October 16th, 2008, 04:21 PM

After being reassured i tried the Y 2x on the sr/12 and was surprised the auto focus works with it ok and i use a NP-FH 100 battery, and on a tripod it may be an option for some wildlife filming when i am too tired to lug the fx-7 + tripod around.

Erik Phairas · December 2nd, 2008, 09:10 PM

of some interest I suppose. I Night video all shot with the Sr11.

YouTube - Dumont Comp Hill Nightlife (thanksgiving 08)

Dale McClelland · December 3rd, 2008, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Phairas

of some interest I suppose. I Night video all shot with the Sr11.

YouTube - Dumont Comp Hill Nightlife (thanksgiving 08)

I enjoyed the video. I like shooting night video with my SR11.

Did you use manual exposure? If so, did you have to change the exposure level often or did you just set it once and keep it there?

If you used auto-exposure instead of manual exposure, how did you keep the noise/grain level down to where is almost non-existent in the video (Twilight mode maybe?)

Erik Phairas · December 3rd, 2008, 09:40 PM

auto exposure, auto slo shutter. When I do anything with Vegas 8 the first thing I do it set the color corrector from studio RGB to computer RGB. Other than that, I just rendered at a VBR 10mbps average WMV and when uploaded to youtube, they seem to smooth it out a lot.

when watching the WMV on the computer there is more noise but it still doesn't see too bad for a single chip 1/3" sensor camera.

thanks for watching!

Martyn Hull · December 4th, 2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erik Phairas

auto exposure, auto slo shutter. When I do anything with Vegas 8 the first thing I do it set the color corrector from studio RGB to computer RGB. Other than that, I just rendered at a VBR 10mbps average WMV and when uploaded to youtube, they seem to smooth it out a lot.

when watching the WMV on the computer there is more noise but it still doesn't see too bad for a single chip 1/3" sensor camera.

thanks for watching!

How are you doing with the big boy Erik.nice video by the way

Erik Phairas · December 4th, 2008, 08:46 PM

oh the EX3 is my baby, when the lighting is just right, it looks like film. The low light on the EX3 is just beyond words... I showed this over in the EX forum and I don't think they knew what they were looking at...

I took the camera out and was able to capture a nice image of the Orion nebula. You can barely see it with the human eye... LOL

Erik Phairas · January 6th, 2009, 08:20 PM

Hey the SR11 when recording onto a memory stick, makes a great helmet cam. :)

Dumont Dunes, New Years Day 2009 on Vimeo

Also another comparison to the EX3 as the end of this video is EX footage.

December 4th, 2008, 08:46 PM	#29
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	oh the EX3 is my baby, when the lighting is just right, it looks like film. The low light on the EX3 is just beyond words... I showed this over in the EX forum and I don't think they knew what they were looking at... I took the camera out and was able to capture a nice image of the Orion nebula. You can barely see it with the human eye... LOL Attached Thumbnails

January 6th, 2009, 08:20 PM	#30
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	Hey the SR11 when recording onto a memory stick, makes a great helmet cam. :) Dumont Dunes, New Years Day 2009 on Vimeo Also another comparison to the EX3 as the end of this video is EX footage. __________________ EX3, Q6600 Quad core PC - Vista 64, Vegas 8.1 64bit, SR11 b-cam

October 14th, 2008, 09:23 PM	#16
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	I've been pleasantly surprised by how good the SR11 is - even in an indoor reception shoot I'm pretty happy with it (used a little on cam light for fill). I know it isn't as impressive or as easily adjusted as a big cam, but the image quality is stunning - nothing to complain about that I can find. The EX definitely does better in low light with that big glass on the front, but if that's an EX in yer pocket, you'd REALLY be glad to see me... The SR does pretty well for a "pocket rocket"! FWIW, that WA is like chaining a race car to a light post... definitely a SD lens, and IIRC it's a pretty simple single element sort of thing... so if the SR still looked that good, it's impressive. I've got several different WA lenses with the 37mm thread, and there's a huge difference between the SD lenses and the HG lenses, and even a significant difference between the various HG0737 versions. The current "C" version is nice since it's light and compact, but still can't hold a candle to the previous "Y" version. I'd expect ANY of the HG lenses to look better than the one you used, by a significant margin. Also, a lower grade WA can knock off a significant amount of light sensitivity...

October 14th, 2008, 09:27 PM	#17
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	thanks for the heads up! I've done testing with and without it... it doesn't kill it too bad except for the edges.. but I'd like to get a proper HD wide angle for it.

October 14th, 2008, 10:00 PM	#18
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	You'd be surprised at the difference a GOOD WA makes. I had the VCL-0637 - neat little lens, still have one around for that extra .1! BUT, you can see the image is both darker and less detailed when side by side with one of the HG lenses... that's even in the LCD... The HG0737C is a fairly decent lens, especially since finding a "Y" is nearly impossible - I have 2 of each model, and as tempting as it is to reduce my collection of lenses, I don't think I'd get rid of them as long as I have 37mm thread cameras - both serve a purpose. If you don't mind a bit of tendency to lens flare, the HG0737(no suffix) and the HG0737X are about equal to the "C". Life's too short for cheap glass... and presuming Sony sticks with the 37mm thread diameter, the lenses should be around for a while - I collected most of mine back when I was using HC1's... added a couple "C"s more recently as they allow the CX7/12 to fit in the sports packs with the lens fitted.

October 15th, 2008, 12:23 AM	#19
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	The first video in the thread.. the goonies video.. AVCHD Sony HDR SR11 Demo on Vimeo is a combination of wide adapter and stock lens. Bascily if you see zoom I popped off the adapter.. Doesn't totally kill it in my opinion but like I said. I would like a true HD lens. :)

October 15th, 2008, 01:51 AM	#20
Martyn Hull Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 444	I have a sony VCL-HG2037Y 2X which i bought for my HC-1,i know it fits my SR12 thread size but i have not tried it as it looks too big in my opinion for the little cam and may harm it any thoughts on this.

October 15th, 2008, 07:58 PM	#21
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Those "Y" series lenses are certainly huge... I actually weighed the 0737Y out of curiousity - 12 oz... almost as heavy as my CX12 at 1.1 pounds (17 oz!)... I don't think there's any danger in mounting the lenses - IIRC even the HC1 had plastic threads, so the threading/mount shouldn't be an issue. The real challenge becomes how front heavy these little cams become with all that mass forward! The current "C" lens is a lot lighter and better matched weight and size wise, but if I want the highest image quality, I'd still use the "Y".

October 16th, 2008, 02:42 AM	#22
Rick DeBari New Boot Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Charlestown, RI Posts: 14	FYI Dave & Erik, B&H has a used VCL-HG0737Y in stock for $79.00. Used Sony \| VCL-HG0737Y High-grade Wide Angle \| VCLHG0737Y \| B&H I would buy it for my SR11 but I think its a tad heavy for run and gun shooting. I checked the specs and the new "C" version has 3 lens elements vs 6 elements on the bigger "Y". Hence the weight difference. From my experience, usually more elements means better quality with lenses but not always. Some of the newer computer-designed lenses perform well with less glass. I will most likely purchase the "C" version for my SR11 to save the 6 ounces of weight.

October 16th, 2008, 11:41 AM	#23
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Rick - Yep, the Y is pretty darn heavy, but that's a great price (about half what the C runs). If I didn't have two already, I'd be tempted to snag it! There's definitely more barrel distortion on the C, the Y has almost NO visible barelling - and it's very crisp. BUT, it's heavy 2x the weight of the C it looks like, and it's also about 50% thicker... 2 1/4" vs 1 1/2"... so yes, the Y is a beast! Out of curiousity, I just A/B'd the two lenses on the SR11 - interestingly, it appears the C is ever so slightly wider (aparently .7 has some flex in the spec), so the barelling issue COULD be the extra couple degrees of view. The other thing I noticed is the SR11 focus hunts a bit more with the C mounted than the Y when fully zoomed (and I'd presume this would apply to the range), and the Y has a slightly brighter overall image, meaning there's about one exposure increment (per the camera exposure adjustment) difference between the two - this is what I was mentioning about different WA lenses potentially causing differing amounts of light loss when mounted. SO there's a smidge of performance difference... On the SR11, the Y is less awkward than on a CX12 as the SR has more heft to begin with, maybe you throw a FH100 on the back end to help balance it out (still nose heavy, but not as much), but now you've lost the size and weight advantage of the small cam! From my view, you should probably have the Y around for tripod mount or when image/low light matters, but the C is better for general use... you're talking minor differences in any event, and so if weight/size are an issue again the C might be better for many shooters. Either would be better than the SD lens Erik was using... still it was a great test, very helpful for me in confirming that the SR is a bargain... doesn't mean I wouldn't love to have an EX1/EX3, but I'm pretty amazed at how well the SR11 holds it's own.

October 16th, 2008, 04:21 PM	#24
Martyn Hull Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: England Posts: 444	After being reassured i tried the Y 2x on the sr/12 and was surprised the auto focus works with it ok and i use a NP-FH 100 battery, and on a tripod it may be an option for some wildlife filming when i am too tired to lug the fx-7 + tripod around.

December 2nd, 2008, 09:10 PM	#25
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	of some interest I suppose. I Night video all shot with the Sr11. YouTube - Dumont Comp Hill Nightlife (thanksgiving 08)

December 3rd, 2008, 09:40 PM	#27
Erik Phairas Major Player Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 628	auto exposure, auto slo shutter. When I do anything with Vegas 8 the first thing I do it set the color corrector from studio RGB to computer RGB. Other than that, I just rendered at a VBR 10mbps average WMV and when uploaded to youtube, they seem to smooth it out a lot. when watching the WMV on the computer there is more noise but it still doesn't see too bad for a single chip 1/3" sensor camera. thanks for watching!