SR12 questions? at DVinfo.net

Stephen Eastwood · April 3rd, 2008, 01:43 PM

I just looked over the sony site http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665291496

And still have a few questions maybe there are answers too.

what framerates? does this have 24P? 30P? 60i or 60P?

If it does have 24P does it have flags so if I import it to vegas it is in 24 or does it need a program like cinform to do the conversion to get a proper 24p?

I currently have the hv20, xha1, xlh1 and sony's ex cam, and I still really like the hg10 which I use to play around a lot, I was all for the hf10 but now hear that the sr12 is better in many ways, short of the memory stick which I do not love, I am all for getting it, but am wondering how would it mix with say the xha1 or hv20? since I use them most for things that may have a third cam like the sr12 mixed in, the new ex cam I use on other types of work at the moment, but if anyone has an idea how it would mix with it as well, I would also be interested.

Also can you shoot full hd to both memory stick and HD or one or the other, I know you can do an internal transfer but I was thinking a dual backup is nice, I have firstores for my canons (less the hg10, no firewire port=no firestore)

And does this record a true 1920 on the card/HD or 1440?

Ron Evans · April 3rd, 2008, 02:24 PM

Download the manual and it will answer all your question. http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/mod...=HDRSR12&LOC=3
SR12 is 60i, can record to HDD OR MemoryStick and can transfer from HDD to MemoryStick. IT can record 1920x1080 or 1440x1080 at several rates, see the manual or in fact SD. SR11 has common feature just smaller HDD, 60 rather than 120. I have the SR11 as I think it is a better deal.

Ron Evans

Dave Rosky · April 3rd, 2008, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Evans

Download the manual and it will answer all your question. http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/mod...=HDRSR12&LOC=3
SR12 is 60i, can record to HDD OR MemoryStick and can transfer from HDD to MemoryStick. IT can record 1920x1080 or 1440x1080 at several rates, see the manual or in fact SD. SR11 has common feature just smaller HDD, 60 rather than 120. I have the SR11 as I think it is a better deal.

Ron Evans

From the discussions here, it does not have 24P or 30P progressive modes. Like the HG10, however, it does have a viewfinder, which the HF10 lacks.

Stephen Eastwood · April 3rd, 2008, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Rosky

From the discussions here, it does not have 24P or 30P progressive modes. Like the HG10, however, it does have a viewfinder, which the HF10 lacks.

No 24 is an issue, I shoot all my cams in 24, wonder how bad it would look to have it at 60i down to 24 in the final render anyone know?

And other than size of the HD the sr11 is the same from what I can see if so that does seem a better deal as I don't need more space, in fact I was looking to go full flash instead, oh well.

And if its only 60i that makes sense why they have no mention of it anywhere, nothing to change so nothing to mention really :/

Dave Blackhurst · April 3rd, 2008, 04:09 PM

Stephen -

Haven't rendered out to 24p yet, but I've always had decent results with that in HDV, so should work here. I'd rather have the higher data rate file and discard the extra information in post than have the camera decide how to do it, at least that's my thinking... could be completely crazy?

Yes the SR11 is identical and cheaper!

I haven't tried shooting to both HDD and MS Duo, but it appears it's one or the other. HOWEVER, this is actually nice for workflow - shoot to the HDD, transfer just the clips you want to the MS Duo and to the computer. Dubbing is fast, fiddled with it last night! With 60G HDD, you've got plenty of storage, but the MS Duo option is nice too.

Stephen Eastwood · April 3rd, 2008, 05:08 PM

Dave do you use vegas or another software?

And can you be totally manual on the camera? both shutter and iris and gain? or at least lock out any gain from coming in?

I know I can on the canons its a work around but I can block all gain by locking the exposure, not sure about the sony, and do they have a number like the 1800OK Canon that has all these answers I woudl think they would.

Ken Ross · April 3rd, 2008, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen Eastwood

I currently have the hv20, xha1, xlh1 and sony's ex cam, and I still really like the hg10 which I use to play around a lot, I was all for the hf10 but now hear that the sr12 is better in many ways, short of the memory stick which I do not love, I am all for getting it, but am wondering how would it mix with say the xha1 or hv20? since I use them most for things that may have a third cam like the sr12 mixed in, the new ex cam I use on other types of work at the moment, but if anyone has an idea how it would mix with it as well, I would also be interested.

Stephen, I don't know how the SR12 would mix with the XHA1 or XH1, but since I have the HV20 and have done a lot of A/Bs with that cam and the SR12, I can tell you if you're careful with your white balance, it should mix very well.

Dave Blackhurst · April 3rd, 2008, 08:47 PM

Vegas Pro 8b.

Manual control is not exactly a strong point on the consumer Sonys, but it's not a big deal once you get used to it. Exposure and AE shift are the two controls you've got, and are surprisingly effective. I have no doubt that a software change could allow access to the deeper functions, just like peaking and a couple other things magically appeared on the HC9, which is otherwise an HC7... maybe next year...

No gain lockout, but will have to see how much gain is being applied - generally the cam shows little noise until light becomes very scarce.

Sony has a toll free with very nice polite people who know very little about the product from my experience, at least nothing beyond what's in the spec sheet and manual - the tricks, hacks, and workarounds come from crazy people like the ones who hang out here and try to squeeze the impossible out of their cameras and push the boundaries!

Ron Evans · April 3rd, 2008, 09:13 PM

Unlike some of the Panasonics, Sony in manual does not show when it is in gain up, but full scale exposure in manual is 18db gain each "click" back will give 15db,12db,9db,6db,3db, and then 0. So I have mentally fixed positions on my LCD for 0 and 9db ( true for all my Sony consumer cams, PC10,TRV50,HC96 and TRV740 and as an exercise worth confirming with the data code on playback). Unlike the Prosumer or Pro cameras it is not possible to set gain at 9db and iris at f4 for instance. Iris is full open before gain starts just like the consumer cams from the other manufacturers. The SR7 showed noise starting at 9db and encoder problems above 15db as well but the SR11 has usable family video quality wide open and 18db gain and at 9db is good enough to edit in with my FX1 video.
Ron Evans

Robin Lobel · April 4th, 2008, 03:53 AM

If you need 24p and manual shutter speed (like I do), go for the HF10. SR11/12 don't have it.

April 3rd, 2008, 01:43 PM	#1
Stephen Eastwood Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Great Neck, NY Posts: 291	SR12 questions? I just looked over the sony site http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665291496 And still have a few questions maybe there are answers too. what framerates? does this have 24P? 30P? 60i or 60P? If it does have 24P does it have flags so if I import it to vegas it is in 24 or does it need a program like cinform to do the conversion to get a proper 24p? I currently have the hv20, xha1, xlh1 and sony's ex cam, and I still really like the hg10 which I use to play around a lot, I was all for the hf10 but now hear that the sr12 is better in many ways, short of the memory stick which I do not love, I am all for getting it, but am wondering how would it mix with say the xha1 or hv20? since I use them most for things that may have a third cam like the sr12 mixed in, the new ex cam I use on other types of work at the moment, but if anyone has an idea how it would mix with it as well, I would also be interested. Also can you shoot full hd to both memory stick and HD or one or the other, I know you can do an internal transfer but I was thinking a dual backup is nice, I have firstores for my canons (less the hg10, no firewire port=no firestore) And does this record a true 1920 on the card/HD or 1440? __________________ Stephen Eastwood http://www.StephenEastwood.com

April 3rd, 2008, 05:08 PM	#6
Stephen Eastwood Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Great Neck, NY Posts: 291	Dave do you use vegas or another software? And can you be totally manual on the camera? both shutter and iris and gain? or at least lock out any gain from coming in? I know I can on the canons its a work around but I can block all gain by locking the exposure, not sure about the sony, and do they have a number like the 1800OK Canon that has all these answers I woudl think they would. __________________ Stephen Eastwood http://www.StephenEastwood.com

April 3rd, 2008, 02:24 PM	#2
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Download the manual and it will answer all your question. http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/mod...=HDRSR12&LOC=3 SR12 is 60i, can record to HDD OR MemoryStick and can transfer from HDD to MemoryStick. IT can record 1920x1080 or 1440x1080 at several rates, see the manual or in fact SD. SR11 has common feature just smaller HDD, 60 rather than 120. I have the SR11 as I think it is a better deal. Ron Evans

April 3rd, 2008, 04:09 PM	#5
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Stephen - Haven't rendered out to 24p yet, but I've always had decent results with that in HDV, so should work here. I'd rather have the higher data rate file and discard the extra information in post than have the camera decide how to do it, at least that's my thinking... could be completely crazy? Yes the SR11 is identical and cheaper! I haven't tried shooting to both HDD and MS Duo, but it appears it's one or the other. HOWEVER, this is actually nice for workflow - shoot to the HDD, transfer just the clips you want to the MS Duo and to the computer. Dubbing is fast, fiddled with it last night! With 60G HDD, you've got plenty of storage, but the MS Duo option is nice too.

April 3rd, 2008, 08:47 PM	#8
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Vegas Pro 8b. Manual control is not exactly a strong point on the consumer Sonys, but it's not a big deal once you get used to it. Exposure and AE shift are the two controls you've got, and are surprisingly effective. I have no doubt that a software change could allow access to the deeper functions, just like peaking and a couple other things magically appeared on the HC9, which is otherwise an HC7... maybe next year... No gain lockout, but will have to see how much gain is being applied - generally the cam shows little noise until light becomes very scarce. Sony has a toll free with very nice polite people who know very little about the product from my experience, at least nothing beyond what's in the spec sheet and manual - the tricks, hacks, and workarounds come from crazy people like the ones who hang out here and try to squeeze the impossible out of their cameras and push the boundaries!

April 3rd, 2008, 09:13 PM	#9
Ron Evans Inner Circle Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 4,220	Unlike some of the Panasonics, Sony in manual does not show when it is in gain up, but full scale exposure in manual is 18db gain each "click" back will give 15db,12db,9db,6db,3db, and then 0. So I have mentally fixed positions on my LCD for 0 and 9db ( true for all my Sony consumer cams, PC10,TRV50,HC96 and TRV740 and as an exercise worth confirming with the data code on playback). Unlike the Prosumer or Pro cameras it is not possible to set gain at 9db and iris at f4 for instance. Iris is full open before gain starts just like the consumer cams from the other manufacturers. The SR7 showed noise starting at 9db and encoder problems above 15db as well but the SR11 has usable family video quality wide open and 18db gain and at 9db is good enough to edit in with my FX1 video. Ron Evans

April 4th, 2008, 03:53 AM	#10
Robin Lobel Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Paris, France Posts: 80	If you need 24p and manual shutter speed (like I do), go for the HF10. SR11/12 don't have it.