Atomos Shogun with Sony A7s at DVinfo.net

Phil Goetz · December 23rd, 2014, 06:13 PM

If all goes according to plan I'll be using a demo Atomos Shogun to shoot some video over the next couple days. I'll be posting the experience here. Right now I can't decide if I am going to set the A7s to S-log2 or just run GAMMA 7 or 8 on it. I know I am shooting 4k. Probably 24p. I know the Sony FS700 with an external recorder needed to be set to S-log2 and the only recommended ISO was 2000. That was the native ISO for RAW though. Since the Shogun just started shipping I am wondering what people have tried thus far.

Olof Ekbergh · December 23rd, 2014, 09:08 PM

I am just starting to dial in the A7s with Shogun and I am comparing to the FS7.
Both cameras were set on Slog2, 3 for the FS7. All Factory settings, both cameras rated at 3200 same lens at f10, 5500K.

Bear in mind Vimeo compresses as well, downloading the 4K version orig upload will give you the best result.

I am not tuning here I am just using factory settings for everything. I think the results speak for themselves. The only grading was bring the blacks to 0 and whites to 100 raise the mids a bit to roughly match shots, and add bit of sat. This was done in FCPX less than 15 sec time grading each shot. If graded in Resolve and sharpening noise suppressed etc. I am sure I could make all these shots look much better. But this is to demonstrate what you start out with.

I hope you find it interesting I do. next I will be in resolve building LUTs.

4K version

Gary Huff · December 24th, 2014, 07:57 AM

Apparently S-Log is busted coming out of HDMI, so best not to use it.

Olof Ekbergh · December 24th, 2014, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

Apparently S-Log is busted coming out of HDMI, so best not to use it.

Why do you say that? I think it actually works very well. Yes it is a bit more contrasty than the internal, but still a valid Slog IMHO.

To get the best idea of how the footage actually looks download the 4K and show it on a Evaluation monitor, not a computer screen. All the images are much cleaner on a REC709 Pro monitor or even a consumer TV.

And bear in mind even the 4K download file is compressed.

Gary Huff · December 24th, 2014, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh

Why do you say that? I think it actually works very well. Yes it is a bit more contrasty than the internal, but still a valid Slog IMHO.

Upon further research, S-Log is fine, just has to be interpreted correctly. However, "a bit more contrasty than the internal" would not mean that the S-Log is working. The very fact that the contrast level changes is a concern between two recorded formats. However, it turns out it's an interpretation issue with an NLE.

Phil Goetz · December 24th, 2014, 10:56 AM

Good discussion. I'll have a camera from our showroom out over the holiday but we have more in rentals. If anyone needs to rent one.

Sony Alpha a7S Body

Olof Ekbergh · December 24th, 2014, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary Huff

Upon further research, S-Log is fine, just has to be interpreted correctly. However, "a bit more contrasty than the internal" would not mean that the S-Log is working. The very fact that the contrast level changes is a concern between two recorded formats. However, it turns out it's an interpretation issue with an NLE.

I have noticed the same thing on the Odyssey 7Q, the ProRes is a bit more contrasty from the HDMI in the A7s. But in both cases there is no clipping highlights or crushing of the blacks even in very contrasty (high dynamic range) scenes. This was in 1080, I will have the O7Q+ here on Friday so it will be interesting to see if the Odyssey gets the same result in UHD.

I always use a very contrasty scene when testing cameras and recorders. This scene is the same one I have been using with some variations since the 90's to build PP's and dial in new equipment.

Phil Goetz · December 24th, 2014, 03:38 PM

I stuck a NPF970 battery on the SHOGUN, put a DIGISTOR 480GB drive in the caddy and then in the SHOGUN and put the A7s into "4k HDMI out" mode and that's that. 2160 23.98 video according to the top left hand corner of the SHOGUN display. Easy.

- It is important that you connect the HDMI to the camera and to the Shogun before attempting to put the camera in "4k HDMI out". That option is NOT available without the cable connected.

Steve Kimmel · December 24th, 2014, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Goetz

I stuck a NPF970 battery on the SHOGUN, put a DIGISTOR 480GB drive in the caddy and then in the SHOGUN and put the A7s into "4k HDMI out" mode and that's that. 2160 23.98 video according to the top left hand corner of the SHOGUN display. Easy.

I'm curious as to the battery life of the 970 battery. When you have a sense, would love to hear. Thanks.

Olof Ekbergh · December 24th, 2014, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kimmel

I'm curious as to the battery life of the 970 battery. When you have a sense, would love to hear. Thanks.

I get from 45-90 minutes with the Shogun battery, and I think it is 30Whrs, and as memory serves the 970 is 56Whrs.

So you should get 90-180 minutes, depending on how you are using the Shogun. Recording 4K seems to use a lot of power like 18-20W, but monitoring seems to only use around 10W.

These are my initial findings, I will nail it down as I use the Shogun more. I have a great charger that reports how much charge a battery has taken to fill up, so it is easy to figure out the watt draw. It just makes a difference how you use the Shogun. It may also draw more when using scopes, more processing. Also bear in mind batteries hold less charge as they age and if in very cold or hot conditions.

Steve Kimmel · December 24th, 2014, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olof Ekbergh

I get from 45-90 minutes with the Shogun battery, and I think it is 30Whrs, and as memory serves the 970 is 56Whrs.

So you should get 90-180 minutes, depending on how you are using the Shogun. Recording 4K seems to use a lot of power like 18-20W, but monitoring seems to only use around 10W.

These are my initial findings, I will nail it down as I use the Shogun more. I have a great charger that reports how much charge a battery has taken to fill up, so it is easy to figure out the watt draw. It just makes a difference how you use the Shogun. It may also draw more when using scopes, more processing. Also bear in mind batteries hold less charge as they age and if in very cold or hot conditions.

Thanks Olof. Can you shut the screen off entirely to save battery life while recording?

Olof Ekbergh · December 24th, 2014, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Kimmel

Thanks Olof. Can you shut the screen off entirely to save battery life while recording?

You can turn the brightness down, but I have not tried to find a way to shut it off while recording. I have not seen it mentioned anywhere either.

We will all know more in a few days of playing with the Shogun.

Ron Evans · December 25th, 2014, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Goetz

I stuck a NPF970 battery on the SHOGUN, put a DIGISTOR 480GB drive in the caddy and then in the SHOGUN and put the A7s into "4k HDMI out" mode and that's that. 2160 23.98 video according to the top left hand corner of the SHOGUN display. Easy.

How long will this setup record continuously. Will it shut down after 29mins?

Ron Evans

Phil Goetz · December 25th, 2014, 12:41 PM

Hey Ron. I am charging batteries for the A7s and will try. Camera running off battery. I will plug the Shogun into 120 volts because I seem to have left the 970 batteries on my desk at work. Is the question in regards to how long the 970 lasts powering the Shogun or just to the recording limit based on hard drive buffering and such? I am shooting 23.98.

Phil Goetz · December 25th, 2014, 08:26 PM

I shot 60 seconds of the Christmas tree. I copied the 5GB file onto a PC and then imported into Premiere CC. The file is ProResHQ despite the fact the camera is only 8 bit out. Technically all I needed is ProRes, which is also an option on the Shogun.

This is what Premiere calls it:
Type: QuickTime Movie
File Size: 4.8 GB
Image Size: 3840 x 2160
Frame Rate: 23.976

I selected export with "match source high bit rate". It spit out a 50MB file. The file details say it is 2160 and the data rate is 7108kbps. I uploaded it to youtube:

In the bottom right hand corner of the YouTube page you can change the settings to 2160 4k. I also exported from Premiere using a setting called "4K HD MP4 Output". This created a 670MB file. Data rate is 98,782kbps. Much larger. Not sure what I am going to do with this file yet.

December 23rd, 2014, 06:13 PM	#1
Phil Goetz Austinite Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Austin Posts: 550	Atomos Shogun with Sony A7s If all goes according to plan I'll be using a demo Atomos Shogun to shoot some video over the next couple days. I'll be posting the experience here. Right now I can't decide if I am going to set the A7s to S-log2 or just run GAMMA 7 or 8 on it. I know I am shooting 4k. Probably 24p. I know the Sony FS700 with an external recorder needed to be set to S-log2 and the only recommended ISO was 2000. That was the native ISO for RAW though. Since the Shogun just started shipping I am wondering what people have tried thus far. Last edited by Phil Goetz; December 23rd, 2014 at 08:05 PM.

December 23rd, 2014, 09:08 PM	#2
Olof Ekbergh Sponsor: Westside AV Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mount Washington Valley, NH, USA Posts: 1,365	Re: Atomos Shogun with Sony A7s I am just starting to dial in the A7s with Shogun and I am comparing to the FS7. Both cameras were set on Slog2, 3 for the FS7. All Factory settings, both cameras rated at 3200 same lens at f10, 5500K. Bear in mind Vimeo compresses as well, downloading the 4K version orig upload will give you the best result. I am not tuning here I am just using factory settings for everything. I think the results speak for themselves. The only grading was bring the blacks to 0 and whites to 100 raise the mids a bit to roughly match shots, and add bit of sat. This was done in FCPX less than 15 sec time grading each shot. If graded in Resolve and sharpening noise suppressed etc. I am sure I could make all these shots look much better. But this is to demonstrate what you start out with. I hope you find it interesting I do. next I will be in resolve building LUTs. FS7 int - Shogun- A7s int Comparo on Vimeo 4K version 4K Comparo Shogun, A7s, FS7 on Vimeo __________________ Olof Ekbergh • olof@WestsideAV.com Westside A V Studios • http://www.WestsideAVstore.com/

December 24th, 2014, 07:57 AM	#3
Gary Huff Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 2,006	Re: Atomos Shogun with Sony A7s Apparently S-Log is busted coming out of HDMI, so best not to use it.

December 24th, 2014, 10:56 AM	#6
Phil Goetz Austinite Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Austin Posts: 550	Re: Atomos Shogun with Sony A7s Good discussion. I'll have a camera from our showroom out over the holiday but we have more in rentals. If anyone needs to rent one. Sony Alpha a7S Body

December 24th, 2014, 03:38 PM	#8
Phil Goetz Austinite Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Austin Posts: 550	Re: Atomos Shogun with Sony A7s I stuck a NPF970 battery on the SHOGUN, put a DIGISTOR 480GB drive in the caddy and then in the SHOGUN and put the A7s into "4k HDMI out" mode and that's that. 2160 23.98 video according to the top left hand corner of the SHOGUN display. Easy. - It is important that you connect the HDMI to the camera and to the Shogun before attempting to put the camera in "4k HDMI out". That option is NOT available without the cable connected. Last edited by Phil Goetz; December 25th, 2014 at 12:42 PM.

December 25th, 2014, 12:41 PM	#14
Phil Goetz Austinite Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Austin Posts: 550	Re: Atomos Shogun with Sony A7s Hey Ron. I am charging batteries for the A7s and will try. Camera running off battery. I will plug the Shogun into 120 volts because I seem to have left the 970 batteries on my desk at work. Is the question in regards to how long the 970 lasts powering the Shogun or just to the recording limit based on hard drive buffering and such? I am shooting 23.98.

December 25th, 2014, 08:26 PM	#15
Phil Goetz Austinite Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Austin Posts: 550	Re: Atomos Shogun with Sony A7s I shot 60 seconds of the Christmas tree. I copied the 5GB file onto a PC and then imported into Premiere CC. The file is ProResHQ despite the fact the camera is only 8 bit out. Technically all I needed is ProRes, which is also an option on the Shogun. This is what Premiere calls it: Type: QuickTime Movie File Size: 4.8 GB Image Size: 3840 x 2160 Frame Rate: 23.976 I selected export with "match source high bit rate". It spit out a 50MB file. The file details say it is 2160 and the data rate is 7108kbps. I uploaded it to youtube: YouTube (Short URL) In the bottom right hand corner of the YouTube page you can change the settings to 2160 4k. I also exported from Premiere using a setting called "4K HD MP4 Output". This created a 670MB file. Data rate is 98,782kbps. Much larger. Not sure what I am going to do with this file yet.