Ninja-2 and Z7E ... at DVinfo.net

Stuart McAlister · October 6th, 2013, 09:19 AM

Hello,

I have a Sony Z7E plugged into a Ninja-2 via the camera's HDMI output.

The image on both the Z7 and Ninja-2 show clean, sharp and smooth camera movements yet once the ProRes422 file has been inputted into FCP7, the image (and any edges) appears blurred and somewhat juddery. Here's a clip of both the sequence settings and the resulting image from FCP :

I understand that an interlaced signal is the default output of a Z7 but why should it look so clean on the Ninja-2 screen yet the image I get in FCP looks so bad? Furthermore, I have checked that the signal is clean by plugging the Z7 into a large, flat-screen TV and the info from the screen says "1080i 50MHz". Again, camera moves (and edges) are smooth and clean. Even with the camera locked off, anything that moves within the frame seem to suffer the same fate. I have tried selecting a shutter speed of 1/50th on the Z7 but it makes no difference to the result.

Z7 settings
1080i
Rec Type Interlaced
Scan Type 25

Any help on this would make my day.

Thank you for your time.

Duncan Say · October 7th, 2013, 02:23 AM

Hi Stuart,

sorry to migrate you to here but the Atomos Forum is just constantly under attack at the moment. I've looked at your footage and had a think about it and it definitely isn't a field order problem.

Since your camera looks fine on the monitor from the HDMI out I don't think it can be down to that either and that would rule out the HDMI cable as well (as long as it is the same one as you are using to record) which leaves the hard drive as a possible cause or the Ninja itself.

So hopefully you are using an approved drive in which case its the Ninja and I would raise a support ticket with Atomos and get a replacement.

Unless anyone here as any suggestions.

Duncan

Stuart McAlister · October 7th, 2013, 02:47 AM

Duncan,

No problem at all.

Firstly, the disk in the Ninja-2 is: SanDisk Extreme SSD SATA 6/Gb/s with a 480GB capacity. Both the Ninja-2 and the disk were bought from an Atomos registered dealer here in France in the Springtime. The Ninja-2 has the latest firmware update: 4.2.

For a further (light-hearted) test, I plugged the output of an XBox into the Ninja-2. Again, the images were smooth and crisp. You never know ...

I am of the opinion that the Ninja-2 doesn’t like interlaced images ... so, what can be done to convert before ingesting into FCP? Or maybe it’s the way the Ninja-2 reads the incoming signal?

Thanks for your continued help.

Stuart

** and I’ve also tried another HDMI cable with no visible changes to the result **

Duncan Say · October 7th, 2013, 01:31 PM

I quite often shoot 50i without any of the issues that you are having so I don't think it is the Ninja not liking the signal, in fact I normally have more issues shooting 25p because of pSf and the way that FCP sees it.

The you tube video is really strange which is why I was hoping that some of the other contributors here might comment upon it.

Geoff Addis · October 8th, 2013, 02:01 AM

Are you sure that the clip is not 25p rather than 50i - it looks like the effect that one gets on fast 25p pans.

Stuart McAlister · October 8th, 2013, 02:24 AM

Dear Geoff,

Many thanks for your reply.

Firstly, I am of the belief that the default output from the Z7 is Interlaced - no matter if Progressive is selected in the output menu. After plugging the camera directly into a large screen TV (which decodes AUX signals and then shows the signal info on the screen), it quite clearly says “1080i 50MHz”.

Secondly, on the ‘camera status‘, states that ‘1080i’ is outgoing - even by going into the menu and changing to Progressive, that visual indication does not change.

Thirdly, when I select Progressive in the menu and then change the Ninja-2 to 25p, the image on the Ninja-2 looks even more ‘juddery’.

So, with those tests/results in mind, I still reckon the the Z7 produces default Interlaced images from its HDMI output.

I have written to Atomos for a Support Ticket ... it’s now been 22 hours so I don’t reckon they’ll get me a wizard reply within their stated 24 hour waiting period!

Thanks again and if you have any other ideas, then please drop me a line.

Stuart

October 6th, 2013, 09:19 AM	#1
Stuart McAlister Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris Posts: 71	Ninja-2 and Z7E ... Hello, I have a Sony Z7E plugged into a Ninja-2 via the camera's HDMI output. The image on both the Z7 and Ninja-2 show clean, sharp and smooth camera movements yet once the ProRes422 file has been inputted into FCP7, the image (and any edges) appears blurred and somewhat juddery. Here's a clip of both the sequence settings and the resulting image from FCP : Sequence 1 - YouTube I understand that an interlaced signal is the default output of a Z7 but why should it look so clean on the Ninja-2 screen yet the image I get in FCP looks so bad? Furthermore, I have checked that the signal is clean by plugging the Z7 into a large, flat-screen TV and the info from the screen says "1080i 50MHz". Again, camera moves (and edges) are smooth and clean. Even with the camera locked off, anything that moves within the frame seem to suffer the same fate. I have tried selecting a shutter speed of 1/50th on the Z7 but it makes no difference to the result. Z7 settings 1080i Rec Type Interlaced Scan Type 25 Any help on this would make my day. Thank you for your time.

October 7th, 2013, 02:23 AM	#2
Duncan Say Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Colchester, UK Posts: 36	Re: Ninja-2 and Z7E ... Hi Stuart, sorry to migrate you to here but the Atomos Forum is just constantly under attack at the moment. I've looked at your footage and had a think about it and it definitely isn't a field order problem. Since your camera looks fine on the monitor from the HDMI out I don't think it can be down to that either and that would rule out the HDMI cable as well (as long as it is the same one as you are using to record) which leaves the hard drive as a possible cause or the Ninja itself. So hopefully you are using an approved drive in which case its the Ninja and I would raise a support ticket with Atomos and get a replacement. Unless anyone here as any suggestions. Duncan __________________ http://nexfs100.blogspot.co.uk/ www.camdec.net

October 7th, 2013, 02:47 AM	#3
Stuart McAlister Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris Posts: 71	Re: Ninja-2 and Z7E ... Duncan, No problem at all. Firstly, the disk in the Ninja-2 is: SanDisk Extreme SSD SATA 6/Gb/s with a 480GB capacity. Both the Ninja-2 and the disk were bought from an Atomos registered dealer here in France in the Springtime. The Ninja-2 has the latest firmware update: 4.2. For a further (light-hearted) test, I plugged the output of an XBox into the Ninja-2. Again, the images were smooth and crisp. You never know ... I am of the opinion that the Ninja-2 doesn’t like interlaced images ... so, what can be done to convert before ingesting into FCP? Or maybe it’s the way the Ninja-2 reads the incoming signal? Thanks for your continued help. Stuart and I’ve also tried another HDMI cable with no visible changes to the result Last edited by Stuart McAlister; October 7th, 2013 at 03:14 AM. Reason: addition of text

October 7th, 2013, 01:31 PM	#4
Duncan Say Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Colchester, UK Posts: 36	Re: Ninja-2 and Z7E ... I quite often shoot 50i without any of the issues that you are having so I don't think it is the Ninja not liking the signal, in fact I normally have more issues shooting 25p because of pSf and the way that FCP sees it. The you tube video is really strange which is why I was hoping that some of the other contributors here might comment upon it. __________________ http://nexfs100.blogspot.co.uk/ www.camdec.net

October 8th, 2013, 02:01 AM	#5
Geoff Addis Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 116	Re: Ninja-2 and Z7E ... Are you sure that the clip is not 25p rather than 50i - it looks like the effect that one gets on fast 25p pans.

October 8th, 2013, 02:24 AM	#6
Stuart McAlister Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris Posts: 71	Re: Ninja-2 and Z7E ... Dear Geoff, Many thanks for your reply. Firstly, I am of the belief that the default output from the Z7 is Interlaced - no matter if Progressive is selected in the output menu. After plugging the camera directly into a large screen TV (which decodes AUX signals and then shows the signal info on the screen), it quite clearly says “1080i 50MHz”. Secondly, on the ‘camera status‘, states that ‘1080i’ is outgoing - even by going into the menu and changing to Progressive, that visual indication does not change. Thirdly, when I select Progressive in the menu and then change the Ninja-2 to 25p, the image on the Ninja-2 looks even more ‘juddery’. So, with those tests/results in mind, I still reckon the the Z7 produces default Interlaced images from its HDMI output. I have written to Atomos for a Support Ticket ... it’s now been 22 hours so I don’t reckon they’ll get me a wizard reply within their stated 24 hour waiting period! Thanks again and if you have any other ideas, then please drop me a line. Stuart