XL2 release and compatibility guesses at DVinfo.net

Marcia Janine Galles · May 15th, 2003, 09:42 PM

Hello all,
(Will try this again... my previous thread attempt just vanished.)

I was just wondering about anybody's best guess as to whether or not an XL2 will be compatible with XL1s lenses (seems like they'd be nuts to not go that route), and if anybody had heard any more about a release date besides the short blurb of pixelmonger.com.

After months of research into a Powerbook (a year ago), and after being assured that what I wanted just wasn't available in a Powerbook, I plunked down my money. Eleven days later the new ones came out with everything I'd asked about/been searching for. I was out of luck. Needless to say, now I'm a little spooked about big purchases. No doubt par for the course in industries where technology marches on so fast, but thought I'd ask.
Marcia

Dylan Couper · May 15th, 2003, 10:04 PM

I think the last guess was, yes, it would be compatible with the XL lense series.

Don Palomaki · May 16th, 2003, 02:29 AM

As long as it is an XL series camera the lenses should work, although if the CCD size changes it could present an issue. And not clear if the current lenses would be satisfactory if the next model is HD or native 9x16.

Recall that the Canon L1 and L2 used the same lenses, but they changed the lens mount with the XL1 series - in part due to the change in CCD size.

Nigel Moore · May 16th, 2003, 03:48 AM

If the mount changes, there may well be an adapter (Canon or third-party) for older lenses, similar to the current EF lens adapter.

The compatability of those lenses with new CCDs is, as Don suggests, open to question. Since no one knows what direction the XL2 will be taking, it's pretty much impossible to say what the CCDs will look like.

Jeff Donald · May 16th, 2003, 06:00 AM

The adapter would probably cost almost as much as the lens. Simple mechanical adapters are relatively cheap to make. However, the XL mount requires electrical contacts to pass power and data. By moving lens out from the body (the adapter can't be infinitely thin) the focus will change and close focus capability will decrease. If an optical relay is incorporated into the adapter (so close focus capability stays the same) the price will go up. Similar adapters (no electrical components) cost $500 to $800USD. The adapter could incorporate a tele-convertor instead of a relay. This would preserve the close focus capabilities. The tele would multiply the focal length by a minimum of 1.4 and would increase the aperture by 1 stop, increases the DOF, and wide angle capability would be lost.

My best guess is that if the camera is to improve in the areas Don mentions, I doubt existing lenses could be used.

Nigel Moore · May 16th, 2003, 06:27 AM

If the XL2 were to improve over the XL1(s) in the way Don suggests, the big question would not be could you use the older lenses, but why would you?

Marcia Janine Galles · May 16th, 2003, 10:03 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Nigel Moore : If the XL2 were to improve over the XL1(s) in the way Don suggests, the big question would not be could you use the older lenses, but why would you? -->>>

(arghhh, the thread I was typing disappeared again... what the heck?!)

You're right, Nigel. I don't want to plunk down for them, then have to buy more, which is partly why I started this thread. Think I'll hold off buying it for now. Had thought of all sorts of options for what I have in the works, since I want two cams eventually, this one being demoted to B cam later, when the XL2 does finally surface. (Will hunt around for any hints at Show Biz Expo next month.) Have considered just about everything in the XL1s price range, on down. But given that color correcting is such a pain, think I'd be smart to stick within the same family of cameras to blend them easier. And instead of breaking the bank for all I need as I get this project underway, think I might pick up a GL2 instead of the XL for starters (and instead of a Sony or Pani, etc.). My thinking is the color spectrums will be more likely to match better that way, when blending A and B cam footage, even if the XL2 is HD, 24P, DVCam, or whatever. And then I'll have two different size bodies to play with. The XL series is a little large to shoot in some of the places I've shoehorned myself into in the past.

Thanks all. As always, you guys are a great source of info!
Marcia

Joseph George · May 19th, 2003, 09:25 PM

IMHO, I think that the XL1s replacement will be HD. I think that this years NAB was the last event when SD camcorders were introduced. The current lenses will probably not be sharp enough to take full advantage of the increased camera resolution.

Jacques Mersereau · May 20th, 2003, 04:19 PM

<<<IMHO, I think that the XL1s replacement will be HD. I think that this years NAB was the last event when SD camcorders were introduced.
The current lenses will probably not be sharp enough to take full
advantage of the increased camera resolution.>>>

I *hope* that the next XL1 will do HD, and I completely agree w/ Mr. George that
Canon *video glass* does NOT have near enough resolution to make crisp HD
images. In the XL2 wish list, I asked for Canon to make their 35mm glass
work in their next generation (hopefully without or minimal magnification
issues).

Victor Muh · June 7th, 2003, 05:33 PM

Anybody have any news about the next Canon "XL" camera?

John Threat · June 7th, 2003, 06:22 PM

Processing HD will be quite expensive in the chain of production.

HD decks, and HD input card and HD aware NLE's will be a very expensive all around upgrade.

I think the money is that the XL2 would come in as a SD camera. Maybe they will make a new line that has HD, but i don't think it would be the XL-1S direct successor.

Josh Bass · June 7th, 2003, 10:57 PM

Wouldn't it be HD the way the new JVC is HD, that is, compressed to fit on a minidv tape? And isn't the newest version of Vegas HD aware? It looks like in the project properties, some of the formats being "1080i" or something.

Rob Belics · June 8th, 2003, 08:27 AM

This from Ron Billup site:

"Canon will introduce the XL2 by the end of 2003 and even though the JVC will throw up more pixels, the new XL series will blow it away with its native 16 X 9, third generation chips (3 instead of JVC's single chip), multiple frame rates (including 24P and more importantly 30P ), much lower compression and most importantly ... the ability to use a manual lens. "

Dylan Couper · June 8th, 2003, 09:36 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : This from Ron Billup site:

"Canon will introduce the XL2 by the end of 2003 and even though the JVC will throw up more pixels, the new XL series will blow it away with its native 16 X 9, third generation chips (3 instead of JVC's single chip), multiple frame rates (including 24P and more importantly 30P ), much lower compression and most importantly ... the ability to use a manual lens. " -->>>

I've got $50 that says this doesn't happen.

Richard Alvarez · June 8th, 2003, 12:24 PM

Dylan
What doesn't happen? The features, or the release date? I have confidence in the features listed... that seems to be the consistent rumor. But the release date is more likely to be Aug 2004... right?

May 15th, 2003, 09:42 PM	#1
Marcia Janine Galles Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 340	XL2 release and compatibility guesses Hello all, (Will try this again... my previous thread attempt just vanished.) I was just wondering about anybody's best guess as to whether or not an XL2 will be compatible with XL1s lenses (seems like they'd be nuts to not go that route), and if anybody had heard any more about a release date besides the short blurb of pixelmonger.com. After months of research into a Powerbook (a year ago), and after being assured that what I wanted just wasn't available in a Powerbook, I plunked down my money. Eleven days later the new ones came out with everything I'd asked about/been searching for. I was out of luck. Needless to say, now I'm a little spooked about big purchases. No doubt par for the course in industries where technology marches on so fast, but thought I'd ask. Marcia

May 15th, 2003, 10:04 PM	#2
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	I think the last guess was, yes, it would be compatible with the XL lense series. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

May 16th, 2003, 03:48 AM	#4
Nigel Moore Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 358	If the mount changes, there may well be an adapter (Canon or third-party) for older lenses, similar to the current EF lens adapter. The compatability of those lenses with new CCDs is, as Don suggests, open to question. Since no one knows what direction the XL2 will be taking, it's pretty much impossible to say what the CCDs will look like. __________________ _________________ Time flies like an arrow Fruit flies like a banana

May 16th, 2003, 06:00 AM	#5
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	The adapter would probably cost almost as much as the lens. Simple mechanical adapters are relatively cheap to make. However, the XL mount requires electrical contacts to pass power and data. By moving lens out from the body (the adapter can't be infinitely thin) the focus will change and close focus capability will decrease. If an optical relay is incorporated into the adapter (so close focus capability stays the same) the price will go up. Similar adapters (no electrical components) cost $500 to $800USD. The adapter could incorporate a tele-convertor instead of a relay. This would preserve the close focus capabilities. The tele would multiply the focal length by a minimum of 1.4 and would increase the aperture by 1 stop, increases the DOF, and wide angle capability would be lost. My best guess is that if the camera is to improve in the areas Don mentions, I doubt existing lenses could be used. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 16th, 2003, 06:27 AM	#6
Nigel Moore Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Switzerland Posts: 358	If the XL2 were to improve over the XL1(s) in the way Don suggests, the big question would not be could you use the older lenses, but why would you? __________________ _________________ Time flies like an arrow Fruit flies like a banana

May 16th, 2003, 02:29 AM	#3
Don Palomaki Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Northern VA Posts: 4,489	As long as it is an XL series camera the lenses should work, although if the CCD size changes it could present an issue. And not clear if the current lenses would be satisfactory if the next model is HD or native 9x16. Recall that the Canon L1 and L2 used the same lenses, but they changed the lens mount with the XL1 series - in part due to the change in CCD size.

May 16th, 2003, 10:03 AM	#7
Marcia Janine Galles Major Player Join Date: May 2003 Location: Camarillo, CA Posts: 340	<<<-- Originally posted by Nigel Moore : If the XL2 were to improve over the XL1(s) in the way Don suggests, the big question would not be could you use the older lenses, but why would you? -->>> (arghhh, the thread I was typing disappeared again... what the heck?!) You're right, Nigel. I don't want to plunk down for them, then have to buy more, which is partly why I started this thread. Think I'll hold off buying it for now. Had thought of all sorts of options for what I have in the works, since I want two cams eventually, this one being demoted to B cam later, when the XL2 does finally surface. (Will hunt around for any hints at Show Biz Expo next month.) Have considered just about everything in the XL1s price range, on down. But given that color correcting is such a pain, think I'd be smart to stick within the same family of cameras to blend them easier. And instead of breaking the bank for all I need as I get this project underway, think I might pick up a GL2 instead of the XL for starters (and instead of a Sony or Pani, etc.). My thinking is the color spectrums will be more likely to match better that way, when blending A and B cam footage, even if the XL2 is HD, 24P, DVCam, or whatever. And then I'll have two different size bodies to play with. The XL series is a little large to shoot in some of the places I've shoehorned myself into in the past. Thanks all. As always, you guys are a great source of info! Marcia

May 19th, 2003, 09:25 PM	#8
Joseph George Permanently Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Los Angeles, California Posts: 265	IMHO, I think that the XL1s replacement will be HD. I think that this years NAB was the last event when SD camcorders were introduced. The current lenses will probably not be sharp enough to take full advantage of the increased camera resolution.

May 20th, 2003, 04:19 PM	#9
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	<<<IMHO, I think that the XL1s replacement will be HD. I think that this years NAB was the last event when SD camcorders were introduced. The current lenses will probably not be sharp enough to take full advantage of the increased camera resolution.>>> I hope that the next XL1 will do HD, and I completely agree w/ Mr. George that Canon video glass does NOT have near enough resolution to make crisp HD images. In the XL2 wish list, I asked for Canon to make their 35mm glass work in their next generation (hopefully without or minimal magnification issues). __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

June 7th, 2003, 05:33 PM	#10
Victor Muh Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Paris, France Posts: 126	Anybody have any news about the next Canon "XL" camera? __________________ Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value. - Albert Einstein http://advaloreminternational.com

June 7th, 2003, 06:22 PM	#11
John Threat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York Posts: 322	Processing HD will be quite expensive in the chain of production. HD decks, and HD input card and HD aware NLE's will be a very expensive all around upgrade. I think the money is that the XL2 would come in as a SD camera. Maybe they will make a new line that has HD, but i don't think it would be the XL-1S direct successor.

June 7th, 2003, 10:57 PM	#12
Josh Bass Slash Rules! Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Houston, Texas Posts: 5,472	Wouldn't it be HD the way the new JVC is HD, that is, compressed to fit on a minidv tape? And isn't the newest version of Vegas HD aware? It looks like in the project properties, some of the formats being "1080i" or something. __________________ The Bass' camerawork The Bass on IMDB

June 8th, 2003, 08:27 AM	#13
Rob Belics Major Player Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: St. Louis, MO Posts: 581	This from Ron Billup site: "Canon will introduce the XL2 by the end of 2003 and even though the JVC will throw up more pixels, the new XL series will blow it away with its native 16 X 9, third generation chips (3 instead of JVC's single chip), multiple frame rates (including 24P and more importantly 30P ), much lower compression and most importantly ... the ability to use a manual lens. "

June 8th, 2003, 09:36 AM	#14
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	<<<-- Originally posted by Rob Belics : This from Ron Billup site: "Canon will introduce the XL2 by the end of 2003 and even though the JVC will throw up more pixels, the new XL series will blow it away with its native 16 X 9, third generation chips (3 instead of JVC's single chip), multiple frame rates (including 24P and more importantly 30P ), much lower compression and most importantly ... the ability to use a manual lens. " -->>> I've got $50 that says this doesn't happen. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

June 8th, 2003, 12:24 PM	#15
Richard Alvarez Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 3,840	Dylan What doesn't happen? The features, or the release date? I have confidence in the features listed... that seems to be the consistent rumor. But the release date is more likely to be Aug 2004... right?