MPEG-4 Part 10 HDVPRO/HDVPRO 70 HVR-P10 1080P60 at DVinfo.net

Jack Zhang · May 10th, 2005, 12:34 AM

My first and most wildest post!

I have an idea for an MPEG-4 Part 10 (H.264) HDVPRO camcorder

The specs:

*records full 24P, 30P, and 60P!!!

*records 16 bits per channel of VIDEO!!! (total 48bits)

*audiowise, records a max of 4 channels in 24bit/96khz in uncompressed PCM!

*overall video bitrate of 50Mbps in medium-mild compression

*Square pixel recording

*a HDVPRO 70 mode to record in the 2.35:1 aspect ratio (quality not compromised: 2430x1080)

*a 120P high speed mode for 60P slow-mo effects

*Manual gamma control (a must have for pros!)

*records 30 minutes on miniDV and DVCAM and maybe DVCPRO and 90 minutes on HDCAM SR M-sized tape

*3 widescreen 8-megapixel CCDs for even more detail (6-megapixels effective in HDVPRO and the entire length of the CCD in HDVPRO 70)

*Prosumer model will include a Compact Flash/Microdrive slot (HDR-PH1000)

*Expansion Slot for BNC and HD-SDI and Wi-Fi Antenna for transfer to Gateway (512mbps internet)

*24bit DXP for faster exposure compensation

*MOTOR OFF mode for high speed ring manual zoom (mechanical mechanism: lifts zoom motor off zoom ring)

*ISO Simulator for simulated film grain

*Claims to be artifact-free and GOP-free!

*TIMECODE KEEP when Transcoding

*20x Zoom

*Shutter and F-stop Ring on lens

all of the above is possible by a IBM 64bit processor

Model #HVR-P10

--------

Impossible? or Plausible?

Let the pros such as Douglas Spotted Eagle decide.

I'd love to hear a reply!

Jack Zhang · May 12th, 2005, 09:48 PM

*Uses 4:4:4 color sampling

*Timecode and BATT REM. LCD display on cassete lid

*4 channel audio monitor LCD behind main LCD

VTR: HVR-M20

*Component in

*HD-SDI in and out

*1 DVI in/out

------

Can someone research about MPEG-4 Part 10 at 50Mbps at 4:4:4 color samples and at 16 bits per color and compressed? I'm not sure how much compression (high, medium, or mild) is needed for optimum results.

Jack Zhang · May 19th, 2005, 06:26 PM

Hello? anyone's professional opinion on this? Improvements? Rethinks? Bad features?
Doug S. Eagle? Chris H.? David N.?
I'm desparate for an answer! This is something stuck in my head for the last 1 and 1/2 years and I want to let it go!

P.S: Mods, move this thread to the HDV forum if no one answers within 4 days.

Steven White · May 19th, 2005, 07:06 PM

Well, I was wondering:

Is the combination of 48-bit colour and 4:4:4 even POSSIBLE in MPEG-4? Largely a delivery codec, I'd have expected MPEG-4 to be predominantly 4:2:2 or 4:2:0... but I don't know how well it scales up. Furthermore, why 50 Mbps? What leads you to think that's enough. I'd like to see some references indicated that these combinations are even possible with the standards you suggest.

It's a little much to take seriously - no where near enough detail as to whether these components exist, or how much they'd cost.

-Steve

Jack Zhang · May 19th, 2005, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven White

I'd have expected MPEG-4 to be predominantly 4:2:2 or 4:2:0... but I don't know how well it scales up. Furthermore, why 50 Mbps?

Thanks, Steve, so it has to be 4:2:2 and 25 mbps to be an acceptable standard, that changes this: 60mins on DVCAM/DV only.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven White

no where near enough detail as to whether these components exist, or how much they'd cost

IBM could create the codec processor and Sigma could create the "3" megapixel widescreen 3CCD system. You're right again, I've reconsidered for a 3 megapixel widescreen 3CCD system.

Thanks and double thanks for revising my thoughts!

P.S This will not be a big and bulky pro cam. It will be a Z1 look alike.

Lawrence Bansbach · June 15th, 2005, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven White

Well, I was wondering:

Is the combination of 48-bit colour and 4:4:4 even POSSIBLE in MPEG-4?

From the Wikipedia entry "H.264/MPEG-4 AVC": "The JVT [Joint Video Team] recently completed the development of some extensions to the original standard that are known as the Fidelity Range Extensions (FRExt). These extensions support higher-fidelity video coding by supporting increased sample accuracy (including 10-bit and 12-bit coding) and higher-resolution color information (including sampling structures known as YUV 4:2:2 and YUV 4:4:4). Several other features are also included in the Fidelity Range Extensions project (such as adaptive switching between 4×4 and 8×8 integer transforms, encoder-specified perceptual-based quantization weighting matrices, efficient inter-picture lossless coding, support of additional color spaces, and a residual color transform). The design work on the Fidelity Range Extensions was completed in July of 2004, and the drafting was finished in September of 2004."

Jack Zhang · June 16th, 2005, 05:23 PM

I didn't know that, thanks! Now it will be 36bits of color with 4:4:4 sampling loosly compressed into H.264 (MPEG-4 Part 10).

Matthew Wauhkonen · July 7th, 2005, 10:00 PM

It cooks lunch for me, has a fifty gajillion bit cinegamma gigapixel sensor with 512 bit dynamic range, and costs about fifty dollars.

While this is not my first post, I'll label it my "most wildest" as well.

Jack Zhang · July 10th, 2005, 05:05 PM

Mine's way more practical, your's isin't. Portable HQ HD @ 1080p60 is definitly the future! look below at my signature!

Jack Zhang · August 2nd, 2005, 09:15 PM

* Not 3CCDs but a 3 Next-generation CMOS system for maximum dynamic range.

Noah Yuan-Vogel · August 3rd, 2005, 01:31 PM

encoding to a custom h.264 16bit 4:4:4 1080p60 stream realtime with portable hardware.... how? And then editing with it? On what?

Matthew Wauhkonen · August 4th, 2005, 09:54 AM

I'm pretty sure this post is a joke, parodying people's wild imaginations regarding yet to be released products with impossible specs.

At least I hope and pray that it is.

Jack Zhang · August 8th, 2005, 03:06 PM

Matt: Nope, I'm just trying to get Sony's attention, this isin't a joke! (after some fine tuning it won't be)

Noah: The next-gen Final Cut Pro might be a suitable editing platform.

Noah Yuan-Vogel · August 8th, 2005, 06:25 PM

so basically an updated viper hooked up to a made-up vtr that uses unreliable media and heavy compression? still a good $50,000+ over my price range if it existed, hard to get excited about. next gen fcp doesnt exist but when it does, I suppose it would be just HDVs style to use an (then) out-of-date compression scheme that does a poor job for acquisition just so consumers can still use their decade-old minidv tapes.

So you are saying in the future most people will still be digitizing from tapes in real time? What IBM 64-bit processor would it use?

Jon Kamps · August 9th, 2005, 09:14 PM

why not just drop the tape all together and go with a module that contained a pair of 120gb Laptopdrives (in raid 1 for redundancy). get rid of all this stupid mpeg crap (temporal compression is bad mmmkay) basically caputre HDCAM to the HD. I really think 4:4:4 is overkill right now. (hell look at starwars video quality wise that looked pretty good and from what i'm told it was all shot 1080p HDCAM which is 4:2:2.)

May 10th, 2005, 12:34 AM	#1
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	MPEG-4 Part 10 HDVPRO/HDVPRO 70 HVR-P10 1080P60 My first and most wildest post! I have an idea for an MPEG-4 Part 10 (H.264) HDVPRO camcorder The specs: records full 24P, 30P, and 60P!!! records 16 bits per channel of VIDEO!!! (total 48bits) audiowise, records a max of 4 channels in 24bit/96khz in uncompressed PCM! overall video bitrate of 50Mbps in medium-mild compression Square pixel recording a HDVPRO 70 mode to record in the 2.35:1 aspect ratio (quality not compromised: 2430x1080) a 120P high speed mode for 60P slow-mo effects Manual gamma control (a must have for pros!) records 30 minutes on miniDV and DVCAM and maybe DVCPRO and 90 minutes on HDCAM SR M-sized tape 3 widescreen 8-megapixel CCDs for even more detail (6-megapixels effective in HDVPRO and the entire length of the CCD in HDVPRO 70) Prosumer model will include a Compact Flash/Microdrive slot (HDR-PH1000) Expansion Slot for BNC and HD-SDI and Wi-Fi Antenna for transfer to Gateway (512mbps internet) 24bit DXP for faster exposure compensation MOTOR OFF mode for high speed ring manual zoom (mechanical mechanism: lifts zoom motor off zoom ring) ISO Simulator for simulated film grain Claims to be artifact-free and GOP-free! TIMECODE KEEP when Transcoding 20x Zoom *Shutter and F-stop Ring on lens all of the above is possible by a IBM 64bit processor Model #HVR-P10 -------- Impossible? or Plausible? Let the pros such as Douglas Spotted Eagle decide. I'd love to hear a reply!

May 12th, 2005, 09:48 PM	#2
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Update Uses 4:4:4 color sampling Timecode and BATT REM. LCD display on cassete lid 4 channel audio monitor LCD behind main LCD VTR: HVR-M20 Component in HD-SDI in and out 1 DVI in/out ------ Can someone research about MPEG-4 Part 10 at 50Mbps at 4:4:4 color samples and at 16 bits per color and compressed? I'm not sure how much compression (high, medium, or mild) is needed for optimum results.

July 7th, 2005, 10:00 PM	#8
Matthew Wauhkonen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 285	I, too, have invented a revolutionary camera... It cooks lunch for me, has a fifty gajillion bit cinegamma gigapixel sensor with 512 bit dynamic range, and costs about fifty dollars. While this is not my first post, I'll label it my "most wildest" as well.

August 2nd, 2005, 09:15 PM	#10
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Update #2 * Not 3CCDs but a 3 Next-generation CMOS system for maximum dynamic range.

August 8th, 2005, 03:06 PM	#13
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	This is not a joke! Matt: Nope, I'm just trying to get Sony's attention, this isin't a joke! (after some fine tuning it won't be) Noah: The next-gen Final Cut Pro might be a suitable editing platform.

May 19th, 2005, 06:26 PM	#3
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Hello? anyone's professional opinion on this? Improvements? Rethinks? Bad features? Doug S. Eagle? Chris H.? David N.? I'm desparate for an answer! This is something stuck in my head for the last 1 and 1/2 years and I want to let it go! P.S: Mods, move this thread to the HDV forum if no one answers within 4 days.

May 19th, 2005, 07:06 PM	#4
Steven White Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 547	Well, I was wondering: Is the combination of 48-bit colour and 4:4:4 even POSSIBLE in MPEG-4? Largely a delivery codec, I'd have expected MPEG-4 to be predominantly 4:2:2 or 4:2:0... but I don't know how well it scales up. Furthermore, why 50 Mbps? What leads you to think that's enough. I'd like to see some references indicated that these combinations are even possible with the standards you suggest. It's a little much to take seriously - no where near enough detail as to whether these components exist, or how much they'd cost. -Steve

June 16th, 2005, 05:23 PM	#7
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	I didn't know that, thanks! Now it will be 36bits of color with 4:4:4 sampling loosly compressed into H.264 (MPEG-4 Part 10).

July 10th, 2005, 05:05 PM	#9
Jack Zhang Inner Circle Join Date: May 2005 Location: Burnaby, BC, Canada Posts: 3,053	Mine's way more practical, your's isin't. Portable HQ HD @ 1080p60 is definitly the future! look below at my signature!

August 3rd, 2005, 01:31 PM	#11
Noah Yuan-Vogel Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New York City Posts: 613	encoding to a custom h.264 16bit 4:4:4 1080p60 stream realtime with portable hardware.... how? And then editing with it? On what?

August 4th, 2005, 09:54 AM	#12
Matthew Wauhkonen Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 285	I'm pretty sure this post is a joke, parodying people's wild imaginations regarding yet to be released products with impossible specs. At least I hope and pray that it is.

August 8th, 2005, 06:25 PM	#14
Noah Yuan-Vogel Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New York City Posts: 613	so basically an updated viper hooked up to a made-up vtr that uses unreliable media and heavy compression? still a good $50,000+ over my price range if it existed, hard to get excited about. next gen fcp doesnt exist but when it does, I suppose it would be just HDVs style to use an (then) out-of-date compression scheme that does a poor job for acquisition just so consumers can still use their decade-old minidv tapes. So you are saying in the future most people will still be digitizing from tapes in real time? What IBM 64-bit processor would it use?

August 9th, 2005, 09:14 PM	#15
Jon Kamps Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 56	why not just drop the tape all together and go with a module that contained a pair of 120gb Laptopdrives (in raid 1 for redundancy). get rid of all this stupid mpeg crap (temporal compression is bad mmmkay) basically caputre HDCAM to the HD. I really think 4:4:4 is overkill right now. (hell look at starwars video quality wise that looked pretty good and from what i'm told it was all shot 1080p HDCAM which is 4:2:2.)