XL1S discontinued?! Guess why... ;)

[Chris Hurd]

George Ellis:

<< I did go around the Canon booth at InfoComm and did not see anything that would look like the new cameras. >>

You should have said hello! Don Berube and I were there behind the counter, it would have been great to meet you!

Actually there was a new DV camcorder in the booth, the Optura 500.

[Luis Caffesse]

Chris, will you be at DV Expo East?
I won't be able to be there myself unfortunately, but I've got a few friends in NY (who I know are lurkers on the board here) who will be there.

Also...just out of curiosity and obviously not connected to anything mentioned in this thread....

does Canon usually announce a new camera before showing it off at a trade show, or do they just show up at shows and unveil it unannounced?


And lastly, what news can you give us on the rumored addition of that digital wipe effect?
:)

-Luis

[George Ellis]

<<<-- Originally posted by Chris Hurd : George Ellis:

<< I did go around the Canon booth at InfoComm and did not see anything that would look like the new cameras. >>

You should have said hello! Don Berube and I were there behind the counter, it would have been great to meet you!

Actually there was a new DV camcorder in the booth, the Optura 500. -->>>

Durn. Sorry I missed you.

[Michael Ray]

I think all the speculation about the next camera having HDV might be too optimistic/early. SD is still the standard and what most people want and need, plus that would leave a void in the marketing tier of cameras that canon offers which would be filled by the current panasonic and sony products. Probably what we will see is a replacement to the XL1 in a SD format that will compete with(blow away?) the competition It's too early in the game for canon to release a HD version, most software doesn't support true HDV editing yet, the standards have just been finalized, only the highest end customers know about HDV etc. Sony's projected release of their HDV camera isn't until the first of 2005. Canon will jump into HDV once the interchangeable HD lenses are cost effective,the HDV standards are more mature, more softwave supports HDV, more mass consumer demand to justify the development. and once some of the feature sets of the competition are more finalized. just my take on it all

[Jean-Philippe Archibald]

I completely agree with you Michael. Canon will most likely create a new line of product for their HDV cams somewhere in 2005.

[Mark Grgurev]

You brought up a good point, Michael. The new Xl camcorder can't have HDV, because HDV is too new for Canon to have possibly incorperated it. Well, actually, maybe they could have, especially if its true that they didn't start designing it untill last year.

[Zack Birlew]

What if/why couldn't it has/have both SD and HD? You know, it would/could have like 24p capable SD, regular SD, 720p HD, and 1080i HD. I think that would be neat. But hey, even a 24p camera from Canon would definitely be reason enough to get it. Interchangeable lenses and 24p? What couldn't it do! =D

If it has HD, even though the HD lenses are quite expensive nowadays, perhaps Canon would let lense options for this be for the higher end users and would have an industry lead in 3CCD HD, I mean, that's kind of what happened to the XL1S after awhile cough*P+S 35mm adapter*cough. Plus, it probably should last a loooooooooong time like the XL1S has, so Canon surely wouldn't be leaving itself out of the HD arena for the next 3-5 years, even if they had the best prosumer SD camera on the market and if HD wasn't truly supported by current NLEs. Overall, it's pretty confusing and pointless to speculate at this point so let's just try not to stir up any more heated debates or rumors, guys. (and especially myself ^_^)

But so far, we're all agreed on these things:
1. True 16x9
2. XL1S lense compatibility
3. High end SD or High end SD/HD performance
4. 24p SD (prolly not 24p HD)
5. Same body type
6. A new camera is definitely coming out to replace the XL1S!

Things we're not so sure about:
1. Color scheme (red and white or blue and white? All black?)
2. Better audio solution (something removable? Other?)
3. 24p HD
4. HD in general
5. B&W viewfinder
6. An LCD display
7. Digital wipes (some are wondering ^_^;;;)
8. Video output options (depends on whether HD or not)

Is that about it? Have I missed anything?

[Luis Caffesse]

Actually Jack, I think the only thing we can all agree on is that a
new camera is coming out to replace the XL1s. At least, that is
the only thing that I am completely sure of.

Everything else still waits to be seen, and luckily we only have a
few weeks left before finding out everything there is to know.
The current rebate now expires in 2 1/2 weeks.

You do bring up a good point when it comes to HDV, because
that's the one feature I keep going back and forth on.

On the one hand, it does seem rather quick for Canon to come
out with an HDV camera. The spec was only agreed upon last
year.

On the other hand, Canon has a history of keeping their new
camera models around for 3-4 years, which makes me think they
would want HDV on the new XL camera. And, it seems Sony and
JVC have had enough time to put HDV models together (at least
prototypes), so I don't think it's unfeasible for Canon to have
designed an HDV camera in the same amount of time.

-Luis

[Ed Baatz]

I, for one (the only one?) don't know "for sure" what Canon is going to do, maybe because I've not signed a confidentiality agreement. So, with that in mind, I really can't "agree" with anyone about what the future might bring regarding Canon's camcorders. I suppose I can agree that sooner or later a new model will eventually be released... [g]

Speculation is heavily in favor of a "new model XL2" being released to replace the XL1/XL1S --- but, lacking any official announcements from Canon --- it is for now, merely speculation.

We've been so anxious to see a "new" XL1S, going so far as to make up long, long lists of suggested improvements, that many now believe that an earth-shaking upgrade is in the works...

But, what if the XL2(?) is "just" a minor upgrade to the XL1S --- maybe called the XL1S+ --- comparable to the improvements added between the original XL1 and the XL1S? Instead of HD maybe it will "only" do true 16x9 and/or "only" 24p and/or "only" add built-in balanced audio inputs, etc...

But, what I really don't understand (maybe someone will explain) is why anyone cares what its color scheme might be (red, white & blue stripes?), or if it will handle digital wipes...

[Luis Caffesse]

Ed,

I can't speak for the color scheme...I could care less about that.

As far as the 'digital wipes' go, that was a joke in reference to the upgrades canon made from the L1 to the L2 Hi-8 cameras.
If you go back and read that part of the thread, hopefully it will become obvious that I was joking.

I don't want to become known as the guy that brought back the digital wipe.
:)

-Luis

[Ed Baatz]

Luis,

Ahhhhh, I see??? Actually I don't know anything about Canon's L1/L2 Hi-8 camcorders so the mistaken humor is all mine!

I promise I won't petition Canon for digital wipes on future models...

I was thinking that perhaps a nice mauve with cyan and yellow trim might work for a color scheme? You know, really help it stand-out and be noticed?

[grin]

== Ed ==

[Nick Hiltgen]

Wait wait wait, let's not be so quick todiss the whole digital wipe thing, Luis you woulfd be my hero if you brought back the digital wipe, oh and mosaic, man i miss mosaic.

I was told by my local retailer (not a mom and pop store) that the hdxl1s+2 would have a flip out lcd screen and 16x9 chips. I speculated that it would be dumb for a new camera to come out and not have some sort of HD capabilities but when I posted that on the xl2 wish list, Mr. Hurd quickly respooonded that there was still quite a market for a good SD camera.

That being said he could have just been tossing out somethign so as not to get the site in any NDA troubles.

I do agree that it doesn't matter a bit to me what color it is, because there's always paint lying aroundif you're not happy with the color.

I wonder if maybe the video monitoring options might be really limited if it is HD if only because I think they would do analog component before they would do HD-SDI and it just doesn't seem like there would be enough room on the camera (that size) for xlr inputs, a flip out lcd, component outputs, composite outputs, the canon logo, a place to put the tape, menu knobs...

I don't know I just wish the camera would hurry up and come out so I can stop getting my hopes up.

[Aaron Koolen]

Thing is. If they bring out the new XL1s with the things most people have suggested in this thread, they're just basically doing a DVX100 (With HDV, ok it'd be different but I'm not convinced at all about HDV).

If they do just catchup to the others (DVX100 I'm specifically thinking about here) they're not really gonna steal market away and then I'm sure Panasonic will bring something out within a year WHAM, take the lead again. You don't want to play the catchup game, you will lose.

Hopefully they've talked to the people who use their cameras, and know what market they are after. News Types? Mum and Dad shooting the kids? Indy filmmaking? Porn makers?

They need something revolutionary (Like the DVX) if they want to really get into the game and control their sector of the market. Is it just me or is anyone else cynical about what Canon can really do in this area?


Aaron

[Luis Caffesse]

I'm more curious than cynical.

The comments I've gotten from the people who seem to konw what they're talking about are things like:

"It's fuXXing phenomenal"
and
"this is very exciting"

People seem to be using words like 'revolutionary' and 'groundbreaking'


Now, i'm not saying I believe all of that.
But, my point is, whatever Canon has up their sleeve, I think THEY believe that it will secure them a big part of the market. And you're right, you can't secure market by playing 'catch up.'

Now the question is whether or not we will agree with Canon that the new camera is indeed revolutionary.

Only 2 1/2 weeks left.

-Luis

[Steve McDonald]

Many of those who have made wishful speculations about the "XL2" have mentioned 24p. Don't forget that the DVX100 also has 30p in NTSC models, along with 30i. For those who like the look of progressively-shot video, the 30p is much more useful, as it's smoother and has less of the jerkiness of 24p.

You could use 30p as an alternative for regular video footage and also have a source for very good video-captures for still pictures. As it is with my VX2100, I have to choose: shoot footage at a very jerky 15p for still pictures or in 30i for motion video. Having a true, full-resolution 30p, would be the biggest selling point for me of all the features of this new model that is hovering in the vapors. Even though it would be a Canon, this function, along with a choice of removeable lenses with powerful zoom capabilities, might move me to impoverish myself further to acquire one.

As for HDV, I'm not presently interested, until it is improved to a much higher level, in my range of affordability. In a few years, if HDV reaches a point where it's very good, has a full set of supporting systems and equipment for editing and making distribution copies, then I'll be inclined to embrace it. And a whole bunch of other people will have bought into it previously, if it's to be a practical format for me. I've already made my share of costly mistakes by being an "early-adopter". It's someone else's turn.