XL1S discontinued?! Guess why... ;)

Eric Watson · July 9th, 2004, 05:56 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Mark Grgurev : I just figured out that I'm to young to go to DV Expo East(I'm 15). -->>>

That's interesting. My daughter is considered one of the most gifted up & coming filmmakers in the southwest (no kidding). She gets into every convention, SIG, and festival that we register for. She's nine. It seems that the younger you are and the more talented, the easier it is to get acceptance... case in point, Tiger Woods.

Stephen van Vuuren · July 9th, 2004, 09:27 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Laurence Maher : Well,

And I still hold. If you're blowing up to a big screen, this HDV, plain and simple, won't hold up. Not at 25 Mbps it won't. >>>

It's hard to see why that's true. I've projected miniDV that was filmlooked to aroudn 360 lines off a crappy projector (3 year 800 lumens Epson low end business projector) in a multiplex theater with a 50 ft screen and completely sold out the theater (albiet for a single night) Not a single audience member complained about the image quality. To my eye, it looked like low-rez video. Not to anyone else.

The problem is with our assertion is that what I think you are really saying "it to my technicial standards, it does not hold up". You earlier claimed that distributors won't pick it up, but given the number of DV films in theaterical release world-wide, I can't see that holds water either.

While your standard is perfectly valid for you, for many other, filmmakers, audience and distributors, proejcted video is just fine, artifacts and all -- if the content is compelling.

If you just shot Gigli, all the beatiful IMAX footage in the world is not going to help you at all.

And good artist will use the limations of the DV or HDV image to their advantage. I, for one. kind of liked the look in Soderberg's film - I tend to grunge up video for some projects my self - more like impressionism that realism.

No one complains that Van Gogh and Renior's resolution was too low of large paintings... :)

So I don't care too much if the XL2 is DV, HDV or HD. So long as it give me choices for various kinds of imagery - that's all I really want. The most choices for the dollar.

Mark Grgurev · July 9th, 2004, 09:42 PM

Thanks for responding Eric. I could probably pass off as 18 but I dont wanna take any chances. But I really need to know if you can take camcorders. My bro can just take pictures but if he could take video it would be ten times better. Oh, by the way, do you let your daughter use your cam or did you buy her her own?

Chris Hurd · July 9th, 2004, 10:13 PM

Mark, I've done DV Expo for several years and have always seen personally owned camcorders on the show floor. Should be no big deal. Just check with the show's management at dvexpo.com for a legitimate ruling on that question.

Steve McDonald · July 9th, 2004, 10:50 PM

Stephen van Vuuren wrote: ----and completely sold out the theater, albeit for one night only. Not a single audience member complained about the image quality-----
----------------------------------------

That's quite an accomplishment, getting that many of your family members together at one time. The most relatives of mine I've ever been able to coerce to sit through one of my videos was 4 or 5 and they were always very critical.

Steve McDonald

Eric Watson · July 9th, 2004, 10:54 PM

<<< Oh, by the way, do you let your daughter use your cam or did you buy her her own? -->>>

I started her off when she was 5 around Christmas time just doing basic framing using a Polaroid Instamatic. She enjoyed it so much that over the years we gradually moved her into motion with very cheap and destructable VHS cameras. She now has a basic working knowledge of the Canon XL1S and the Aaton Super 16 film camera. She doesn't really anticipate any HD anything. She just likes making shorts and mock up commercials with friends and family. She does crash cam stuff with her brother going down slides so owning any expensive gear is out of the question. However, 50 dollar cameras from Ebay and the local Pawn shop poses no problem.

Stephen van Vuuren · July 9th, 2004, 11:15 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve McDonald :
That's quite an accomplishment, getting that many of your family members together at one time. The most relatives of mine I've ever been able to coerce to sit through one of my videos was 4 or 5 and they were always very critical.

Steve McDonald -->>>

It was a public screening and it was not for my film (I edited it) - one of my shorts was the warmup.

And no, neither of us had any family members other than spouses. It was a public screening and the theater sold tickets.

I did do my own film premiere at local stage theater - got a projector and screen donated, sold ticket and expected only family, friends and crew to show up. 250+ showed up, standing room only.

People around here have a hunger for indie films. But you have to beat the pavement to get the word out.

Mark Grgurev · July 10th, 2004, 12:05 PM

Your daughter is talented, Eric. I still haven't made a film. I've been writing a script for a Star Wars fanfilm for a year and its still not done and I only have a god awful JVC GR-DV800 that constantly has problems(over the past three days the viewfinder started to blink black and the lcd just displayed a black image), probably has lolux rating of like 100 lux, I got ripped off when I bought it (My brother, Micheal and I payed $800 at bestbuy and then i figured out I could have gotten the same thing with just a smaller lcd for $400) and its has awful battery life.

Daniel Broadway · July 10th, 2004, 03:14 PM

Mark Grgurev, you mention you're making a Star Wars fanfilm. Would you happen to be a member of TFN fanfilms? If so, I'm PixelMagic over there.

Mark Grgurev · July 10th, 2004, 05:09 PM

Hey, Daniel. I am a member of TFN Fanfilms but I dont remember my name or password so i was never able to post. I visit the forums everyday though and i can see your quite popular over there. I'm probably gonna get another name and password soon so, I'll see ya there.

Luis Caffesse · July 10th, 2004, 06:07 PM

"Who is actually ready to purchase -and- How much exactly are you prepared/ willing to invest?"

Count me in to the tune of about $4-$5K, if this camera is what I hope it will be.

I hope that Canon has the DVX squarley in the crosshairs, and gives us the first DV camera without handicaps.

If we see that, I'll hopefully be snatching one off the shelves as quickly as I can.

-Luis

Daniel Broadway · July 10th, 2004, 07:09 PM

What if Canon didn't announce a camera at all this week. That would be sad.

Steve McDonald · July 10th, 2004, 07:22 PM

I'd advise everyone who's determined to spend their money on a Canon XL-series camcorder, to go out and find themselves an XL1s, while there are still some in stock.

Steve McDonald

Zack Birlew · July 10th, 2004, 07:26 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Broadway : What if Canon didn't announce a camera at all this week. That would be sad. -->>>

Geez, you sound like my brother...

Don't ask "what if" questions or you'll jinx everything! =D LOL!

Michael Struthers · July 10th, 2004, 10:46 PM

Are you kidding? There will be a mad glut of xl1s on ebay for cheap in the next few months.

July 9th, 2004, 05:56 PM	#316
Eric Watson New Boot Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 7	<<<-- Originally posted by Mark Grgurev : I just figured out that I'm to young to go to DV Expo East(I'm 15). -->>> That's interesting. My daughter is considered one of the most gifted up & coming filmmakers in the southwest (no kidding). She gets into every convention, SIG, and festival that we register for. She's nine. It seems that the younger you are and the more talented, the easier it is to get acceptance... case in point, Tiger Woods. __________________ There Are Four Lights !!

July 9th, 2004, 09:27 PM	#317
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	<<<-- Originally posted by Laurence Maher : Well, And I still hold. If you're blowing up to a big screen, this HDV, plain and simple, won't hold up. Not at 25 Mbps it won't. >>> It's hard to see why that's true. I've projected miniDV that was filmlooked to aroudn 360 lines off a crappy projector (3 year 800 lumens Epson low end business projector) in a multiplex theater with a 50 ft screen and completely sold out the theater (albiet for a single night) Not a single audience member complained about the image quality. To my eye, it looked like low-rez video. Not to anyone else. The problem is with our assertion is that what I think you are really saying "it to my technicial standards, it does not hold up". You earlier claimed that distributors won't pick it up, but given the number of DV films in theaterical release world-wide, I can't see that holds water either. While your standard is perfectly valid for you, for many other, filmmakers, audience and distributors, proejcted video is just fine, artifacts and all -- if the content is compelling. If you just shot Gigli, all the beatiful IMAX footage in the world is not going to help you at all. And good artist will use the limations of the DV or HDV image to their advantage. I, for one. kind of liked the look in Soderberg's film - I tend to grunge up video for some projects my self - more like impressionism that realism. No one complains that Van Gogh and Renior's resolution was too low of large paintings... :) So I don't care too much if the XL2 is DV, HDV or HD. So long as it give me choices for various kinds of imagery - that's all I really want. The most choices for the dollar. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

July 9th, 2004, 10:13 PM	#319
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,368 Images: 513	Mark, I've done DV Expo for several years and have always seen personally owned camcorders on the show floor. Should be no big deal. Just check with the show's management at dvexpo.com for a legitimate ruling on that question. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

July 9th, 2004, 10:54 PM	#321
Eric Watson New Boot Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas Posts: 7	<<< Oh, by the way, do you let your daughter use your cam or did you buy her her own? -->>> I started her off when she was 5 around Christmas time just doing basic framing using a Polaroid Instamatic. She enjoyed it so much that over the years we gradually moved her into motion with very cheap and destructable VHS cameras. She now has a basic working knowledge of the Canon XL1S and the Aaton Super 16 film camera. She doesn't really anticipate any HD anything. She just likes making shorts and mock up commercials with friends and family. She does crash cam stuff with her brother going down slides so owning any expensive gear is out of the question. However, 50 dollar cameras from Ebay and the local Pawn shop poses no problem. __________________ There Are Four Lights !!

July 9th, 2004, 11:15 PM	#322
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	<<<-- Originally posted by Steve McDonald : That's quite an accomplishment, getting that many of your family members together at one time. The most relatives of mine I've ever been able to coerce to sit through one of my videos was 4 or 5 and they were always very critical. Steve McDonald -->>> It was a public screening and it was not for my film (I edited it) - one of my shorts was the warmup. And no, neither of us had any family members other than spouses. It was a public screening and the theater sold tickets. I did do my own film premiere at local stage theater - got a projector and screen donated, sold ticket and expected only family, friends and crew to show up. 250+ showed up, standing room only. People around here have a hunger for indie films. But you have to beat the pavement to get the word out. __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

July 9th, 2004, 09:42 PM	#318
Mark Grgurev Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fairview,nj Posts: 137	Thanks for responding Eric. I could probably pass off as 18 but I dont wanna take any chances. But I really need to know if you can take camcorders. My bro can just take pictures but if he could take video it would be ten times better. Oh, by the way, do you let your daughter use your cam or did you buy her her own?

July 9th, 2004, 10:50 PM	#320
Steve McDonald Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 366	Stephen van Vuuren wrote: ----and completely sold out the theater, albeit for one night only. Not a single audience member complained about the image quality----- ---------------------------------------- That's quite an accomplishment, getting that many of your family members together at one time. The most relatives of mine I've ever been able to coerce to sit through one of my videos was 4 or 5 and they were always very critical. Steve McDonald

July 10th, 2004, 12:05 PM	#323
Mark Grgurev Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fairview,nj Posts: 137	Your daughter is talented, Eric. I still haven't made a film. I've been writing a script for a Star Wars fanfilm for a year and its still not done and I only have a god awful JVC GR-DV800 that constantly has problems(over the past three days the viewfinder started to blink black and the lcd just displayed a black image), probably has lolux rating of like 100 lux, I got ripped off when I bought it (My brother, Micheal and I payed $800 at bestbuy and then i figured out I could have gotten the same thing with just a smaller lcd for $400) and its has awful battery life.

July 10th, 2004, 03:14 PM	#324
Daniel Broadway Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alabama Posts: 165	Mark Grgurev, you mention you're making a Star Wars fanfilm. Would you happen to be a member of TFN fanfilms? If so, I'm PixelMagic over there.

July 10th, 2004, 05:09 PM	#325
Mark Grgurev Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Fairview,nj Posts: 137	Hey, Daniel. I am a member of TFN Fanfilms but I dont remember my name or password so i was never able to post. I visit the forums everyday though and i can see your quite popular over there. I'm probably gonna get another name and password soon so, I'll see ya there.

July 10th, 2004, 06:07 PM	#326
Luis Caffesse Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 704	"Who is actually ready to purchase -and- How much exactly are you prepared/ willing to invest?" Count me in to the tune of about $4-$5K, if this camera is what I hope it will be. I hope that Canon has the DVX squarley in the crosshairs, and gives us the first DV camera without handicaps. If we see that, I'll hopefully be snatching one off the shelves as quickly as I can. -Luis

July 10th, 2004, 07:09 PM	#327
Daniel Broadway Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Alabama Posts: 165	What if Canon didn't announce a camera at all this week. That would be sad.

July 10th, 2004, 07:22 PM	#328
Steve McDonald Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Eugene, Oregon Posts: 366	Get 'Em While You Can I'd advise everyone who's determined to spend their money on a Canon XL-series camcorder, to go out and find themselves an XL1s, while there are still some in stock. Steve McDonald

July 10th, 2004, 07:26 PM	#329
Zack Birlew Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 613	<<<-- Originally posted by Daniel Broadway : What if Canon didn't announce a camera at all this week. That would be sad. -->>> Geez, you sound like my brother... Don't ask "what if" questions or you'll jinx everything! =D LOL! __________________ "Babs Do or Babs Do not, there is no try." - Zack Birlew www.BabsDoProductions.com

July 10th, 2004, 10:46 PM	#330
Michael Struthers Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: SF, Ca Posts: 421	Are you kidding? There will be a mad glut of xl1s on ebay for cheap in the next few months. __________________ Michael Struthers www.buzzdigital.com