Apple - moving away from Pro apps or prepping for Snow Leopard?

Andrew Smith · September 27th, 2009, 09:16 AM

I was very aware at the time of writing that it would be easy to be perceived as trolling, so I wrote it in the most sombre straight forward way that I could.

I'm also aware of the AV capabilities of the Mac as far back as the 90s, and I also know of programmers who feel that the current Mac OS (with their interface on top of what is essentially Unix) is the best thing you can have to program on and to work with.

In the same straight forward tone, I would humbly point out that at the end of the day Apple is a business and they are duty bound to make a profit/return for their shareholders. They've made the investment in their own video editing app, and I suspect they will now be in a 'return on investment' phase.

Andrew

Floris van Eck · September 27th, 2009, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew Smith

I was very aware at the time of writing that it would be easy to be perceived as trolling, so I wrote it in the most sombre straight forward way that I could.

I'm also aware of the AV capabilities of the Mac as far back as the 90s, and I also know of programmers who feel that the current Mac OS (with their interface on top of what is essentially Unix) is the best thing you can have to program on and to work with.

In the same straight forward tone, I would humbly point out that at the end of the day Apple is a business and they are duty bound to make a profit/return for their shareholders. They've made the investment in their own video editing app, and I suspect they will now be in a 'return on investment' phase.

Andrew

The whole ProApps team is working on cocoa rewrites so how can that be return on investment phase? It basically comes down to this: they can add many new features to legacy code at the moment that they are already rewriting the entire code to support 64-bit and cocoa. Or they can keep those features for a major update and make sure that the current code runs as stable and smoothly as possible. They choice the last option and I think that's the best option. I am 100% confident that the next FCS will be a heavy hitter. 64-bit, cocoa, full fledged BluRay support, OpenCL... performance is going to jump to the roof. And maybe they will even give all their ProApps a uniform look and feel. Who knows. I think some people just react to melodramatic. Software development is complicated.

Shaun Roemich · September 27th, 2009, 10:16 AM

Floris: I hope you are right with your prediction about the future of FCP. I see the current upgrade as being on par with the FCP 1 - 2 - 3 upgrade path in that I got NOTHING out of upgrading, so I didn't. Well, that's half true - I had to EVENTUALLY install FCP2 on my edit computer to finish a client project. My next purchase was FCP6/FCS2. I think I'll wait until 64 bit FCP is out and STABLE.

Andrew Smith · September 27th, 2009, 08:12 PM

Floris, I'll concede to you knowing a lot more about what Apple is up to than I do.

Andrew

Floris van Eck · September 28th, 2009, 12:36 AM

If FCS is not working for you, change to another NLE system / editing suite. Something about the right tool for the right job.

FCS is working for me so I can afford to wait till the next installment drops.

I don't have any inside information but I was at the FCP UG SuperMeet in Amsterdam where the panel of experts (including Michael Wohl, who was on the FCP team) gave some hints. I believe it is safe to assume that Apple is going to rewrite all their applications in 64-bit cocoa. The only question is when. Could be 2010, could be 2011... I don't know.

I can see why some people are disappointed. I only think switching to Adobe or Avid will solve some of your problems and introduce new ones. No system is perfect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

Floris: I hope you are right with your prediction about the future of FCP. I see the current upgrade as being on par with the FCP 1 - 2 - 3 upgrade path in that I got NOTHING out of upgrading, so I didn't. Well, that's half true - I had to EVENTUALLY install FCP2 on my edit computer to finish a client project. My next purchase was FCP6/FCS2. I think I'll wait until 64 bit FCP is out and STABLE.

That depends on your needs. The new markers and the ripple markers functions alone are worth it for me. I also like the new speed tools in FCP 7. Another thing I like is the background rendering although I think it can be greatly improved.

Graham Hickling · October 3rd, 2009, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich

I'll trust that that comment was meant in fun because at first look, I found it inflaming.....

When buying a Mac THESE days, one is buying .... a generally better OS for creative endeavours ......

Pot, meet kettle.

Shaun Roemich · October 3rd, 2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham Hickling

Pot, meet kettle.

Excuse me?

My "possibly inflaming comment" remark was regarding the term "you guys" in the statement that made it sound like we Mac users were mindless sheep easily led by a marketing campaign.

And I stand by my statement that you have chosen to chop up (deleting a very brief but important in context 5 word statement).

Pete Cofrancesco · October 6th, 2009, 08:40 AM

The slow down in Apple's Pro apps development is a pattern that I have seen in the past with other software companies. Generally speaking when software becomes popular or a standard especially in the professional setting companies generally scale back on development, adding only enough new features to encourage current users to buy the next upgrade. In this stage the code base remains the same, I call this "milking". Apple isn't unique to this criticism, take for example how Adobe left Premiere to languish and only of recent revived it. Similar complaints have been made of Avid who know once a professional editor has invested all the time and money in their system its difficult to switch. Let us not forget the king of milking Microsoft, whose dominant position and ability to lock out competition allowed them to dish out sub par software with impunity. I'd say until Apple starts loosing significant customer for their Pro Apps they won't have a lot of motivation for radically changing the code base. Don't forget FCP wasn't developed by them but purchased, so any significant changes would require a complete re-write.

Peter Moretti · October 6th, 2009, 09:12 AM

4:4:4(:4), 4K and native R3D makes it a pretty awesome upgrade from my perspective... as an Avid owner.

Pete Cofrancesco · October 6th, 2009, 02:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

4:4:4(:4), 4K and native R3D makes it a pretty awesome upgrade from my perspective... as an Avid owner.

I'm not going to knock Avid since I've never used it but I've read negative reviews on aspects of the program, read complaints on message boards, and in general if it was that much better of an editing system there wouldn't be a place for FCP, Premiere, and Vegas. My general impression its been around a while has lots of plugins for it, is used in the professional world, but is targeted for companies with a bigger budget than consumer/one man shop. Point being, you could make an argument for and against any editing systems depending on the type of work you do.

I think the gist of the thread creator is he isn't happy with the lack of substantial improvement in the Pro Apps especially when compared to their competitors and to other divisions in the company where Apple has thrown most of its energies ie consumer products and software of iphone, ipod, etc. I'd even go farther to say they have intentionally not offered blu-ray support to the Pro Apps so that it won't compete with their download movie business model.

Many feel the meager improvements in the most recent release was a slap in the face after all the money they have spent on both Apple hardware and software. Its not an unfair criticism considering the premium you pay and how Apple touts themselves as the multimedia innovator and leader.

Mathieu Ghekiere · October 7th, 2009, 02:12 AM

Apple to Introduce Final Cut Studio Update at NAB 2010? - Mac Rumors

Peter Moretti · October 7th, 2009, 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete Cofrancesco

...

I think the gist of the thread creator is he isn't happy with the lack of substantial improvement in the Pro Apps especially when compared to their competitors and to other divisions in the company where Apple has thrown most of its energies ie consumer products and software of iphone, ipod, etc. I'd even go farther to say they have intentionally not offered blu-ray support to the Pro Apps so that it won't compete with their download movie business model.

Many feel the meager improvements in the most recent release was a slap in the face after all the money they have spent on both Apple hardware and software. Its not an unfair criticism considering the premium you pay and how Apple touts themselves as the multimedia innovator and leader.

Pete,

The upgrade is $300 and a new install is $1K. That's a steal. The ability to do 4K in Color alone is worth many times that.

Robert Lane · October 7th, 2009, 05:56 PM

post deleted

Floris van Eck · February 18th, 2010, 03:50 PM

It is clear that Apple is not abandoning it's Pro Apps:

Logic Studio - Updated for 64-bit
Aperture 3 - Updated for 64-bit
Final Cut Studio - Up next I suppose (NAB 2010?)

Perrone Ford · February 18th, 2010, 04:01 PM

Considering they just laid off 40 people from the FCS division, I wouldn't be so sure:

"Apple laid off 40 of my old Final Cut team yesterday, lots of good people, despite high profits. Apple can be pretty evil.
8:16 AM Feb 12th from web

petewarden
Pete Warden "

September 27th, 2009, 10:16 AM	#18
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	Floris: I hope you are right with your prediction about the future of FCP. I see the current upgrade as being on par with the FCP 1 - 2 - 3 upgrade path in that I got NOTHING out of upgrading, so I didn't. Well, that's half true - I had to EVENTUALLY install FCP2 on my edit computer to finish a client project. My next purchase was FCP6/FCS2. I think I'll wait until 64 bit FCP is out and STABLE. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

October 6th, 2009, 09:12 AM	#24
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	4:4:4(:4), 4K and native R3D makes it a pretty awesome upgrade from my perspective... as an Avid owner. __________________ Avid Media Composer 3.1.3. Boris Red and Continuum Complete. Vegas 8.0c. TMPGEnc Xpress Pro 4.0

October 7th, 2009, 02:12 AM	#26
Mathieu Ghekiere Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Belgium Posts: 2,195	Apple to Introduce Final Cut Studio Update at NAB 2010? - Mac Rumors __________________ http://productionsofthe3rdkind.com http://pr3k.com

February 18th, 2010, 04:01 PM	#30
Perrone Ford Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tallahassee, FL Posts: 4,100	Considering they just laid off 40 people from the FCS division, I wouldn't be so sure: "Apple laid off 40 of my old Final Cut team yesterday, lots of good people, despite high profits. Apple can be pretty evil. 8:16 AM Feb 12th from web petewarden Pete Warden " __________________ DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.

September 27th, 2009, 09:16 AM	#16
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,061	I was very aware at the time of writing that it would be easy to be perceived as trolling, so I wrote it in the most sombre straight forward way that I could. I'm also aware of the AV capabilities of the Mac as far back as the 90s, and I also know of programmers who feel that the current Mac OS (with their interface on top of what is essentially Unix) is the best thing you can have to program on and to work with. In the same straight forward tone, I would humbly point out that at the end of the day Apple is a business and they are duty bound to make a profit/return for their shareholders. They've made the investment in their own video editing app, and I suspect they will now be in a 'return on investment' phase. Andrew

September 27th, 2009, 08:12 PM	#19
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,061	Floris, I'll concede to you knowing a lot more about what Apple is up to than I do. Andrew

October 6th, 2009, 08:40 AM	#23
Pete Cofrancesco Inner Circle Join Date: May 2004 Location: USA Posts: 3,005	The slow down in Apple's Pro apps development is a pattern that I have seen in the past with other software companies. Generally speaking when software becomes popular or a standard especially in the professional setting companies generally scale back on development, adding only enough new features to encourage current users to buy the next upgrade. In this stage the code base remains the same, I call this "milking". Apple isn't unique to this criticism, take for example how Adobe left Premiere to languish and only of recent revived it. Similar complaints have been made of Avid who know once a professional editor has invested all the time and money in their system its difficult to switch. Let us not forget the king of milking Microsoft, whose dominant position and ability to lock out competition allowed them to dish out sub par software with impunity. I'd say until Apple starts loosing significant customer for their Pro Apps they won't have a lot of motivation for radically changing the code base. Don't forget FCP wasn't developed by them but purchased, so any significant changes would require a complete re-write.

October 7th, 2009, 05:56 PM	#28
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,823 Images: 15	post deleted

February 18th, 2010, 03:50 PM	#29
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	It is clear that Apple is not abandoning it's Pro Apps: Logic Studio - Updated for 64-bit Aperture 3 - Updated for 64-bit Final Cut Studio - Up next I suppose (NAB 2010?)