High Definition with Elphel model 333 camera

Wayne Morellini · May 7th, 2006, 03:51 PM

Andrey,

I have some good news, that I will be posting sometime over in my digital cinema technical thread.

I have reviewed the sensor information and things have changed quiet a bit. Kodak is supposed to have some 100K -ev well sensor chip, so I am interested in those Kodak options you mentioned.

Micron has got superwideVGA chip with multislope, so I am interested if any of their chips that you use in future have this excellent feature.

But the biggie, apart from some behinds the scenes doc I have on a new sensor people have been eagerly waiting for for years that is quiet an excellent choice for you (though not in price). Is that I have found a cheap Russian, alternative to the x3 Foveon. I will email you privately as I want some space to negotiate with them first, without non business/electronics professional people rushing them for information.

Thanks

Wayne.

Andrey Filippov · May 10th, 2006, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

Andrey,

I have some good news, that I will be posting sometime over in my digital cinema technical thread.

Wayne,

sorry for late reply - I'm just back from the linuxtag.org. I really appreciate information on the new sensors but I can not work with them myself (at least in near future) - there are so many current projects. So right now I can just provide some help to somebody who can work on them.

Andrey

Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn · May 10th, 2006, 01:50 AM

Funny you dismissed me like more than a year ago when I asked you about using your camera for High Definition stuff.
Now I see you here....

Andrey Filippov · May 11th, 2006, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn

Funny you dismissed me like more than a year ago when I asked you about using your camera for High Definition stuff.
Now I see you here....

It is not my speciality :-) , and this application of our cameras is community-driven.

Wayne Morellini · May 11th, 2006, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrey Filippov

Wayne,

sorry for late reply - I'm just back from the linuxtag.org. I really appreciate information on the new sensors but I can not work with them myself (at least in near future) - there are so many current projects. So right now I can just provide some help to somebody who can work on them.

Andrey

That's OK, but I know that you work with micron and mentioned Kodaks. Do any of the Microns that you are using, are planing to, use the dual/multislope. You were talking about the Kodak, are you planning on using the 100K -ev ones, or the 65K -ev ones?

Thanks

Wayne.

Donnie Wagner · May 24th, 2006, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oscar Spier

Forrest (and others)

I got my camera a few days ago. I'm not able to do tests this week because I'm out of the country, but I'll follow this thread and post my results when I'm back.

Oscar,
Any luck using this camera???

Oscar Spierenburg · May 24th, 2006, 10:30 AM

I'm sorry it took so long.... I had a lot of trouble finding a way to capture the footage. I now have figured out a stupid work around, so that's OK for now.

I had luck finding a very (as far as I can tell from my first tests) good C - mount lens on an 'antique' 16mm film camera. here are some tests shots I made with the camera and the lens:
http://bosshogg.logjam.com/oscar/Elphel/rez.jpeg
http://bosshogg.logjam.com/oscar/Elphel/rose.jpg
http://bosshogg.logjam.com/oscar/Elphel/rose1.jpg
http://bosshogg.logjam.com/oscar/Elp...-artifact).jpg

Two of the shots with the rose (shot through a dirty window) are toughed up in AE. One of them 'rose(de-artifact) ' has some enhancements (de-artifact and 0,5 box-blur) to reduce the compression distortions of the Elphel camera.

One of the big problems I still have is the rolling shutter effect on quick moves.

I'm also working on the wax adapter.

Riley Harmon · May 24th, 2006, 11:03 AM

do a green screen test to see how the color compression is

Forrest Schultz · May 24th, 2006, 02:26 PM

Oscar, those rose grabs where at about 1700 by 800. what fps where you able to capture that at? or where they more for still test purposes.

Oscar Spierenburg · May 24th, 2006, 03:55 PM

No, it's a real frame-grab from a clip I shot at 24 fps (1728 x 896)
I'm very glad and surprised that my 1.5 GHZ Intel celeron (!) laptop can capture at that resolution. When I make a battery pack of some sort for the camera I'm very mobile already...only one cable between the laptop and the camera.
How are you doing with you Elphel Forrest?

Wayne Morellini · May 24th, 2006, 10:28 PM

Theres no surprise, you are getting from 30-70mbs (from what I seem to understand) which is upto around 9MBytes second, next to nothing and a number of drives can handle that now days.

Donnie Wagner · May 25th, 2006, 02:55 PM

Forrest or Oscar,
Have you tried playing with higher frame rates for slow motion shots? 640 X360 would be like letterboxed standard def, and you could get framerates up to probably over 100fps. It may not look very good at that low resolution, Then again, until the recent HD cams, SD was just fine. In conjuction with a 35mm adapter to make the subject pop, you'll be able to do some really cool slow motion.

Also, does the camera do windowing or sub-sampling for lower res?

Overall I really like this experiment that Forrest and Oscar are trying, the heavy compression keeps it from being a real professional camera, but it's affordable, has a manageable data rate, and can do real slow motion (I hope).

There should be a whole host of new Gig-E and firewire B standard industrial cameras coming out soon that will be the subject of much experimentation, which is great.

Thanks guys, neat thread here...

Wayne Morellini · May 25th, 2006, 10:20 PM

Which new cameras are those? You know there are already thousands of industrial cameras.

Donnie Wagner · May 26th, 2006, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

Which new cameras are those? You know there are already thousands of industrial cameras.

I said "should" and "whole host"
not "know" and "thousands".

Rob at Graftek (http://www.graftek.com) discussed it with me. He said that "when new faster connectivity standards come out so do new devices that can take take advantage of the extra bandwidth; ; so expect a whole host of new industrial cameras in a few months." Made sense to me, so I thought I'd voice my enthusiasm.

Donnie Wagner · May 26th, 2006, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Morellini

Which new cameras are those? You know there are already thousands of industrial cameras.

double post, oops

May 7th, 2006, 03:51 PM	#121
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Andrey, I have some good news, that I will be posting sometime over in my digital cinema technical thread. I have reviewed the sensor information and things have changed quiet a bit. Kodak is supposed to have some 100K -ev well sensor chip, so I am interested in those Kodak options you mentioned. Micron has got superwideVGA chip with multislope, so I am interested if any of their chips that you use in future have this excellent feature. But the biggie, apart from some behinds the scenes doc I have on a new sensor people have been eagerly waiting for for years that is quiet an excellent choice for you (though not in price). Is that I have found a cheap Russian, alternative to the x3 Foveon. I will email you privately as I want some space to negotiate with them first, without non business/electronics professional people rushing them for information. Thanks Wayne.

May 10th, 2006, 01:50 AM	#123
Juan M. M. Fiebelkorn Major Player Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Buenos Aires , Argentina Posts: 444	Funny you dismissed me like more than a year ago when I asked you about using your camera for High Definition stuff. Now I see you here....

May 24th, 2006, 10:30 AM	#127
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	I'm sorry it took so long.... I had a lot of trouble finding a way to capture the footage. I now have figured out a stupid work around, so that's OK for now. I had luck finding a very (as far as I can tell from my first tests) good C - mount lens on an 'antique' 16mm film camera. here are some tests shots I made with the camera and the lens: http://bosshogg.logjam.com/oscar/Elphel/rez.jpeg http://bosshogg.logjam.com/oscar/Elphel/rose.jpg http://bosshogg.logjam.com/oscar/Elphel/rose1.jpg http://bosshogg.logjam.com/oscar/Elp...-artifact).jpg Two of the shots with the rose (shot through a dirty window) are toughed up in AE. One of them 'rose(de-artifact) ' has some enhancements (de-artifact and 0,5 box-blur) to reduce the compression distortions of the Elphel camera. One of the big problems I still have is the rolling shutter effect on quick moves. I'm also working on the wax adapter.

May 24th, 2006, 11:03 AM	#128
Riley Harmon Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 424	do a green screen test to see how the color compression is

May 24th, 2006, 02:26 PM	#129
Forrest Schultz Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Atwater, CA Posts: 246	Oscar, those rose grabs where at about 1700 by 800. what fps where you able to capture that at? or where they more for still test purposes.

May 24th, 2006, 03:55 PM	#130
Oscar Spierenburg Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: (The Netherlands - Belgium) Posts: 735	No, it's a real frame-grab from a clip I shot at 24 fps (1728 x 896) I'm very glad and surprised that my 1.5 GHZ Intel celeron (!) laptop can capture at that resolution. When I make a battery pack of some sort for the camera I'm very mobile already...only one cable between the laptop and the camera. How are you doing with you Elphel Forrest?

May 24th, 2006, 10:28 PM	#131
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Theres no surprise, you are getting from 30-70mbs (from what I seem to understand) which is upto around 9MBytes second, next to nothing and a number of drives can handle that now days.

May 25th, 2006, 02:55 PM	#132
Donnie Wagner Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 135	Forrest or Oscar, Have you tried playing with higher frame rates for slow motion shots? 640 X360 would be like letterboxed standard def, and you could get framerates up to probably over 100fps. It may not look very good at that low resolution, Then again, until the recent HD cams, SD was just fine. In conjuction with a 35mm adapter to make the subject pop, you'll be able to do some really cool slow motion. Also, does the camera do windowing or sub-sampling for lower res? Overall I really like this experiment that Forrest and Oscar are trying, the heavy compression keeps it from being a real professional camera, but it's affordable, has a manageable data rate, and can do real slow motion (I hope). There should be a whole host of new Gig-E and firewire B standard industrial cameras coming out soon that will be the subject of much experimentation, which is great. Thanks guys, neat thread here...

May 25th, 2006, 10:20 PM	#133
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	Which new cameras are those? You know there are already thousands of industrial cameras.